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Showa Godzilla vs Goku

FluffyCreatureZ said:
This is the chapter were the final flash happens, Vegeta only charged it for 3 pages, not that long at all, it's just that the anime made it longer. This vegeta is weaker and the final flash is comparable to the kamehameha's power. Cell was at the same level of power he was at vs Goku, since korin and the others knew exactly how powerful he was but were surprised by his full power meaning that he was using the same level of power until fighting SSJ2 Gohan. And him having underestimated vegeta's attack doesn't downplay cell, instead it buffs the final flash. This is not the only time something like this happens, there are countless examples of comparable characters one shotting each other with charged attacks in fact, here's a perfect one, SSJ2 Gohan at 50% power was barely holding cell off, but his charged kamehameha one shot super perfect cell who's comparable to said 50% gohan proving for fact that this is consistent, and that Goku's example is viable. You still cannot actually prove cell was suppressed against Goku so Goku would be able to one shot Godzilla.
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another whoops, I forgot that we're using manga goku
regardless, pages are not a unit of time, so it's unknown how long he actually charged it
 
ZillerBucko said:
another whoops, I forgot that we're using manga goku
regardless, pages are not a unit of time, so it's unknown how long he actually charged it
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Goku also took 3 pages to charge his attack dialogue included just like vegeta. Also that's a bad arguments because all those scenes happened back to back, it's just the anime made it way longer than it actually took.
 
also if gohan was at 50% before the kamehameha then powering up to charge it would make him go much higher, no? And if Cell was using all his power and ki on the kamehameha, what would have even had left to defend himself? Not to mention, super saiyan vegeta literally attacks cell during it as well
FluffyCreatureZ said:
This is the chapter were the final flash happens, Vegeta only charged it for 3 pages, not that long at all, it's just that the anime made it longer. This vegeta is weaker and the final flash is comparable to the kamehameha's power. Cell was at the same level of power he was at vs Goku, since korin and the others knew exactly how powerful he was but were surprised by his full power meaning that he was using the same level of power until fighting SSJ2 Gohan. And him having underestimated vegeta's attack doesn't downplay cell, instead it buffs the final flash. This is not the only time something like this happens, there are countless examples of comparable characters one shotting each other with charged attacks in fact, here's a perfect one, SSJ2 Gohan at 50% power was barely holding cell off, but his charged kamehameha one shot super perfect cell who's comparable to said 50% gohan proving for fact that this is consistent, and that Goku's example is viable. You still cannot actually prove cell was suppressed against Goku so Goku would be able to one shot Godzilla.
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also it's not about proving he was suppressed, it's proving he wasn't powered up. it's beyond safe to assume he didn't power up, in fact it's basically objective at this point. Trying to prove he was suppressed would just be a distraction from what actually matters at this point.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Goku also took 3 pages to charge his attack dialogue included just like vegeta. Also that's a bad arguments because all those scenes happened back to back, it's just the anime made it way longer than it actually took.
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except you can't prove it's back to back, because you have no way of measuring time with the manga
 
ZillerBucko said:
also if gohan was at 50% before the kamehameha then powering up to charge it would make him go much higher, no? And if Cell was using all his power and ki on the kamehameha, what would have even had left to defend himself? Not to mention, super saiyan vegeta literally attacks cell during it as well

also it's not about proving he was suppressed, it's proving he wasn't powered up. it's beyond safe to assume he didn't power up, in fact it's basically objective at this point. Trying to prove he was suppressed would just be a distraction from what actually matters at this point.
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No Gohan was capped at 50% because his arm was blasted, he said that himself. Cell didn't use all this ki on the attack, he used the maximum powerlevel attack he could output, gohan also didn't use all his ki in that attack, same idea why goku used a full powered kamehameha but didn't use nearly all his ki in the attack, this is DB 101, also SPC was completely unaffected by vegeta's attack, this is also fact which proves my point.
Wtf not powered up mean? Of course he was powered up wtf are you talking about? Literally a minute earlier he was throwing hands with Goku, did he just suddenly decide "yeah, right in the middle of the fight, while my opponent is charging an attack that could vaporize me at full power, let's suppress my ki to the point I'm bullet level lmao", do you even realize what you're saying, objective? Bruh.
ZillerBucko said:
except you can't prove it's back to back, because you have no way of measuring time with the manga
Click to expand...
Yeah you can tell by context, every panel leads onto the next, it's not like vegeta took a pose in one panel and he held that pose for 5 minutes then the next panel happened, that is nonsensical. Clearly they all happened back to back, if the author wants to illustrate a large charge up then they'd hold the same scene for more panels to indicate that this is taking a while.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No Gohan was capped at 50% because his arm was blasted, he said that himself. Cell didn't use all this ki on the attack, he used the maximum powerlevel attack he could output, gohan also didn't use all his ki in that attack, same idea why goku used a full powered kamehameha but didn't use nearly all his ki in the attack, this is DB 101, also SPC was completely unaffected by vegeta's attack, this is also fact which proves my point.
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maybe he was at 50, even though that wouldn't make sense given that he could just focus all his ki into his other hand which is a thing that they do.....but regardless, that just means gohan is that much stronger than cell
vegeta's attack visibly affects cell, false point
goku not using all his ki in the attack is no different from the androids having "infinite energy". He is using all of the energy he can, but he can't release it all at once, otherwise android 17 would beat the shit out of beerus, which can't happen
 
ZillerBucko said:
maybe he was at 50, even though that wouldn't make sense given that he could just focus all his ki into his other hand which is a thing that they do.....but regardless, that just means gohan is that much stronger than cell
vegeta's attack visibly affects cell, false point
goku not using all his ki in the attack is no different from the androids having "infinite energy". He is using all of the energy he can, but he can't release it all at once, otherwise android 17 would beat the shit out of beerus, which can't happen
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Yes gohan was far stronger than cell but his power was halved. Yet while cell was comparable to him in that state, Gohan still one shot him.
Vegeta's attack did not harm cell, this whole scene is hugely misunderstood in the lore, the point was not that vegeta distracted or harmed cell, it was that he threw away his pride to go and do anything even interrupt and attack an opponent from the back, this meant that vegeta defeated his pride for the sake of winning this fight, and this was the motivation for gohan to release all his power and to release all his doubt which was the thing holding him back through that fight, Geekdom had a brilliant video explaining this.
Yes that's exactly what I meant, and Goku's kamehameha could vaporize cells body, despite cell being stronger than Goku normally.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Yes gohan was far stronger than cell but his power was halved. Yet while cell was comparable to him in that state, Gohan still one shot him.
Vegeta's attack did not harm cell, this whole scene is hugely misunderstood in the lore, the point was not that vegeta distracted or harmed cell, it was that he threw away his pride to go and do anything even interrupt and attack an opponent from the back, this meant that vegeta defeated his pride for the sake of winning this fight, and this was the motivation for gohan to release all his power and to release all his doubt which was the thing holding him back through that fight, Geekdom had a brilliant video explaining this.
Yes that's exactly what I meant, and Goku's kamehameha could vaporize cells body, despite cell being stronger than Goku normally.
Click to expand...
ok but none of this has anything to do with the fact that goku's kamehameha caught cell off guard
nor does gohan being able to beat cell mean anything, all it shows is that it further proves the point that when ki isn't being used to defend, it results in stuff like cell getting vaporized
if that energy from the kamehameha was used to defend himself, then cell would have taken far long to die off, but again
no ki to defend yourself = no good durability in dragon ball
which also explains why cell visibly moves from vegeta's tiny attack but if you insist that it didn't even do anything, the argument is unchanged anyways so
 
so we're back to the fight
godzilla evolves to beat goku = godzilla wins
goku's only win condition is to somehow do enough damage to kill him before he adapts to goku's energy attacks, which I have established that
1. Godzilla would attempt to interrupt the charging
2. if he does instant transmission kamehameha it would injure but certainly not kill godzilla, and healing factor, accelerated development, adaptation, and reactive evolution does the rest
really the only way goku could properly kill godzilla if he could somehow fully charge a spirit bomb at the start of the match or something
 
ZillerBucko said:
ok but none of this has anything to do with the fact that goku's kamehameha caught cell off guard
nor does gohan being able to beat cell mean anything, all it shows is that it further proves the point that when ki isn't being used to defend, it results in stuff like cell getting vaporized
if that energy from the kamehameha was used to defend himself, then cell would have taken far long to die off, but again
no ki to defend yourself = no good durability in dragon ball
which also explains why cell visibly moves from vegeta's tiny attack but if you insist that it didn't even do anything, the argument is unchanged anyways so
Click to expand...
Yeah, but cell wasn't suppressed, that's wrong if you think that. And no your durability doesn't decrease when you're doing a beam clash I though we already went over this, you don't use all your ki when you're beam clashing or shooting a charged attack you just use a small portion but release the maximum amount you can use, in fact you can argue cell got stronger because charging attacks increases you power level (piccolo vs raditz).
ZillerBucko said:
so we're back to the fight
godzilla evolves to beat goku = godzilla wins
goku's only win condition is to somehow do enough damage to kill him before he adapts to goku's energy attacks, which I have established that
1. Godzilla would attempt to interrupt the charging
2. if he does instant transmission kamehameha it would injure but certainly not kill godzilla, and healing factor, accelerated development, adaptation, and reactive evolution does the rest
really the only way goku could properly kill godzilla if he could somehow fully charge a spirit bomb at the start of the match or something
Click to expand...
Sorry but no, Godzilla evolving means jack, the best thing he can do is get ki absorption or increase his regen a bit, but by the time Godzilla can absorb attacks he'd already have no stamina or would be mortally wounded or dead, same with regen, his regen can't improve enough to heal wounds of that level since it's starts out already shit.
1. Godzilla cannot stop Goku charging, Goku can just IT away, and the charging takes very little time.
2. The instant transmission kamehameha vaporizes godzilla, Stop thinking that godzilla getting stronger will actually make a differnce when Goku's own reactive evolution is even more potent.
Stop it, Goku actually destroys godzilla in hand to hand so even if godzilla can improve enough to absorb ki blasts, ignoring the other arguments, he'd still stand no chance against Goku in close combat.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Yeah, but cell wasn't suppressed, that's wrong if you think that. And no your durability doesn't decrease when you're doing a beam clash I though we already went over this, you don't use all your ki when you're beam clashing or shooting a charged attack you just use a small portion but release the maximum amount you can use, in fact you can argue cell got stronger because charging attacks increases you power level (piccolo vs raditz).
Click to expand...
1. And I’ve already told you that I wasn’t saying cell was suppressed so I think you can figure that one out yourself
2. If cell put all the ki he could release into the blast then how would he defend himself? Can he just magically start putting out more ki? Or is your argument just a bit flawed
3. Goku still can’t get past his regen, especially not without using energy attacks which Godzilla is going to quickly resist
4. Stop saying goku has reactive evolution, reactive power level and evolution are different things, and evolution is of course much better and does more things
and both can still increase their power anyways, so Godzilla has the advantage there over Goku
 
ZillerBucko said:
1. And I’ve already told you that I wasn’t saying cell was suppressed so I think you can figure that one out yourself
2. If cell put all the ki he could release into the blast then how would he defend himself? Can he just magically start putting out more ki? Or is your argument just a bit flawed
3. Goku still can’t get past his regen, especially not without using energy attacks which Godzilla is going to quickly resist
4. Stop saying goku has reactive evolution, reactive power level and evolution are different things, and evolution is of course much better and does more things
and both can still increase their power anyways, so Godzilla has the advantage there over Goku
Click to expand...
Goku starts most of his fights with Punches and kicks along enemies that are his size, against bigger people he uses thier weak spots : going inside them, targeting their eyes, tail and knees and using their slow and huge size against them. Which would be great agains Godzilla , he then finishes off with a huge Kamehameha that would either be IT kamehameha, Normal kamehameha, feet kamehameha or targeting kamehameha. Which would just blow half [If not all] of Godzilla's body . Goku's intelligence, after image, IT, and martial arts plus his small size would be near impossible to get hit. one the kamehameha hit Godzilla and gets completely blown off, what can G do? He can't regenerate his half body in matter of seconds, he can't even have resistance to entire new energy form in matter offered seconds, and even if he does, he doesn't have an answer to IT kamehameha, too fast, too powerfull and unpredictable
 
Orange said:
Goku starts most of his fights with Punches and kicks along enemies that are his size, against bigger people he uses thier weak spots : going inside them, targeting their eyes, tail and knees and using their slow and huge size against them. Which would be great agains Godzilla , he then finishes off with a huge Kamehameha that would either be IT kamehameha, Normal kamehameha, feet kamehameha or targeting kamehameha. Which would just blow half [If not all] of Godzilla's body . Goku's intelligence, after image, IT, and martial arts plus his small size would be near impossible to get hit. one the kamehameha hit Godzilla and gets completely blown off, what can G do? He can't regenerate his half body in matter of seconds, he can't even have resistance to entire new energy form in matter offered seconds, and even if he does, he doesn't have an answer to IT kamehameha, too fast, too powerfull and unpredictable
Click to expand...
ok well most of this stuff is irrelevant, wrong, or both
first of all goku doesn't know godzilla's biology, going for weak spots is going to be pretty random, and regardless godzilla would still regenerate quickly if something as small as his eyes got poked.
"slow and huge size" "would be impossible to hit" speed is equalized, godzilla can increase his speed, that point is totally useless here
"he can blow up godzilla's body" is untrue, first of all godzilla upscales highly from his durability feats since he barely reacts to ghidorah's gravity beams, and I believe some of if not the only times he's actually been wounded were against hedorah (he regenerated from that) and mechagodzilla, who he also regenerated from and even in terror of mechagodzilla, the mechagodzilla who should be stronger than he was in the first movie was no longer able to really beat godzilla's durability even with the help of titanosaurus. Not to mention he is at LEAST ten times stronger than mid showa era, which means it's possible that it's more. Godzilla also has type 2 immortality, which is a major contributing factor allowing him to survive and regen from IT kamehameha and stuff
and second, the cell feat is proven useless by this point, so......in fact it could be used as an anti feat since he was only capable of blowing up the top half of cell and nothing else
goku winning is unrealistic here
 
1- Actually being huge, with no way to sense goku's energy, lacking the skill or techniques to even catch him is certainly going to make hitting goku near impossible. Unless Godzilla has something to his sleeves.
2- why wouldn't goku go for the usual weak spots that he knew? Eyes to poke momentary, knees to hurt so he he can make him bend, or go inside him and hurt him from the inside, which he did against piccolo.
3- and goku can hit people, wonder and downright blow up the bodies of people that are massively stronger than him. Also Godzilla doesn't have any feats of regenerating his half body, please show them off. And cell isn't an anti feat, because the final flash could also only bow half of his body, it's a dura feat for cell. [KEEP in mind that the final flash is literally comparable to the earth in size, also gokus explosion can cover up entire mountain regions to entire planets casually. so yes size isn't a problem for goku]
4- goku has two ways of blinding Godzilla, the aura of ssj and solar flare. Also the keinzan which can cut people above goku's dura [the difference could be 10's to million, as krillin planet level was about to cut Friday, dwarf stat level. So it's working against the big boy]
 
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Orange said:
1- Actually being huge, with no way to sense goku's energy, lacking the skill or techniques to even catch him is certainly going to make hitting goku near impossible. Unless Godzilla has something to his sleeves.
2- why wouldn't goku go for the usual weak spots that he knew? Eyes to poke momentary, knees to hurt so he he can make him bend, or go inside him and hurt him from the inside, which he did against piccolo.
3- and goku can hit people, wonder and downright blow up the bodies of people that are massively stronger than him. Also Godzilla doesn't have any feats of regenerating his half body, please show them off. And cell isn't an anti feat, because the final flash could also only bow half of his body, it's a dura feat for cell. [KEEP in mind that the final flash is literally comparable to the earth in size, also gokus explosion can cover up entire mountain regions to entire planets casually. so yes size isn't a problem for goku]
4- when is this "Ten times" come from again?
Click to expand...
1. enhanced senses + adaptation is pretty self explanatory.
2. going inside of him.....that's a bit, strange. but regardless, if he did that against piccolo and never used it again then it's safe to say there's not a big chance he'd do it, but even if he did, godzilla has energy projection anyways so it wouldn't provide goku with a big advantage or anything
and radiation resistance isn't radiation immunity, and I'm fairly certain godzilla's atomic breath was used on characters with radiation resistance/manipulation so
3. please stop saying he would blow half of godzilla up as your argument to prove he could blow half of godzilla up
4. it's on his profile, he trained and got "at least" a 10 times increase
 
ZillerBucko said:
1. enhanced senses + adaptation is pretty self explanatory.
2. going inside of him.....that's a bit, strange. but regardless, if he did that against piccolo and never used it again then it's safe to say there's not a big chance he'd do it, but even if he did, godzilla has energy projection anyways so it wouldn't provide goku with a big advantage or anything
and radiation resistance isn't radiation immunity, and I'm fairly certain godzilla's atomic breath was used on characters with radiation resistance/manipulation so
3. please stop saying he would blow half of godzilla up as your argument to prove he could blow half of godzilla up
4. it's on his profile, he trained and got "at least" a 10 times increase
Click to expand...
1-Yeah because enhanced senses and adaptioni is going to make him catch goku when people with enhanced senses, extra perceptions senses and high martial art skills couldn't [The after image, it works on people that are faster than him, like when he used it against cell and such]
2- He did it against piccolo, but I have a vague memory, maybe because piccolo ate him I think. Tho radiations would prove to be extremely lethal so I agree, it's quite unlikely for goku to do so.
3-Why should I when goku was able to blow up people that have high dura than him, and he can use the keinzan which works on people that are thousands of times more durable [See krillin vs frieza for example.]
4- Fair enough
 
Orange said:
1-Yeah because enhanced senses and adaptioni is going to make him catch goku when people with enhanced senses, extra perceptions senses and high martial art skills couldn't [The after image, it works on people that are faster than him, like when he used it against cell and such]
2- He did it against piccolo, but I have a vague memory, maybe because piccolo ate him I think. Tho radiations would prove to be extremely lethal so I agree, it's quite unlikely for goku to do so.
3-Why should I when goku was able to blow up people that have high dura than him, and he can use the keinzan which works on people that are thousands of times more durable [See krillin vs frieza for example.]
4- Fair enough
Click to expand...
1. why do you say cell is faster than goku?
2. dragon ball is wild bro.....lmao
3. this is a really good point, but the problem is that piercing attacks are a separate category, and are generally inneffective against any kind of quick regeneration. In general focusing tons of energy on a small point can usually do that. Who knows, maybe ssj2 vegito would get a papercut trying to block krillin's kienza for the same reason
 
to sum up everything thus far, including current points of debate
goku does not have a 7.5x AP advantage over godzilla
godzilla significantly upscales from his durability
godzilla can adapt to goku's ki attacks which really are his only good way of bypassing regen
currently arguing if speed equal means goku can still just completely avoid godzilla, and if godzilla can adapt to that
also about if goku's radiation resistance is very relevant here since we've only really seen it on a very low scale iirc?
 
I forgot about this but yeah from what I remember, Goku can one shot with a kamehameha, he has the AP advantage, he has the mobility advantage, Skill advantage, stamina advantage, counters to pretty much everything that Godzilla can do.
Godzilla has reactive evolution which can improve his regen and absorption, but that's pretty much it. So yeah I'm certain this is like a low or mid difficulty for Goku, but I'm tired of debating the same points so I'm just gonna wait for votes.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I forgot about this but yeah from what I remember, Goku can one shot with a kamehameha, he has the AP advantage, he has the mobility advantage, Skill advantage, counters to pretty much everything that Godzilla can do.
Godzilla has reactive evolution which can improve his regen and absorption, but that's pretty much it. So yeah I'm certain this is like a low or mid difficulty for Goku, but I'm tired of debating the same points so I'm just gonna wait for votes.
Click to expand...
needs 7.5x AP advantage to one shot btw that's why I added that
he is only about 1.2 times stronger
 
ZillerBucko said:
needs 7.5x AP advantage to one shot btw that's why I added that
he is only about 1.2 times stronger
Click to expand...
I figured out in a q/a that a if one character can one shot a character at a certain level then he can one shot other characters at that level or lower in a vs fight. so since goku is stronger and his charged attacks can one shot opponents on his level and even higher then he would one shot someone weaker than him.
 
I forgor the arguments
something asbout reactive evolution, idk, I kinda see why inconclusive would be the best option now
 
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