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Should we split up vegetas profile?

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Why would he be referring to Goku from 109 and not the Goku that Jiren was literally just fighting? We don't know exactly how much Jiren was suppressed against Vegeta in 122 or Goku in 109, but we do see that Vegeta was performing better than Goku was there, which makes sense.

Vegeta already had that power boost from the Black Arc that put him way beyond Goku.

Vegeta trained in the RoSaT before the ToP. Goku didn't.

Vegeta Blue was on par with Toppo, who Goku thought he would need Kaioken to deal with.

Vegeta Blue is pretty consistently superior to Goku Blue Kaioken x20, prior to UIO1.
 
You are right,I intepreted it as possibility of ep 109 SSBKX20 Goku vs Jiren but if its refering to Goku fight vs Jiren in the same episode then I still disagree with scaling Vegeta because Vegeta has no feats which puts him over 20 times SSB Goku pre UIO1

Vegeta doesn't scale because of 2 things I pointed out ie Jiren holding back more compared to Goku and Vegeta predicting the movements of Jiren so Vegeta didn't fare against Jiren better because he was stronger,he only fared better because Jiren was holding back and Vegeta saw through the movements of Jiren

He was just stronger than SSB Goku back in Goku black arc but not at level of SSBK because Goku doesn't use kaioken against Goku black and his SSBK10 actually pushes Merged Zamasu back while SSB Vegeta couldn't

Goku trained in gravity chamber with Whis so there is that

Did he train again in ROSAT before TOP? I dont remember that happening

Vegeta blue was on par with base Toppo not full powered Toppo ie Toppo with aura which overpowered 17 in a beam clash and required Goku to go SSBK against

He only got stronger than SSB Goku but no feats which puts him at level of SSBKX20 Goku pre UIO1 Goku
 
There's still no reason to assume Jiren was holding back more against Vegeta Blue than he was against Goku Blue Kaioken in 109. And seeing through Jiren's movements allowed him to dodge his attacks yes. That wouldn't allow him to press an advantage against Jiren like he was.

I didn't say Black Arc Vegeta Blue was superior to Black Arc Goku Blue Kaioken, I was using Vegeta's boost in that arc as reasoning as to why he'd be way beyond Goku Blue.

Eh... considering how Vegeta was so vastly above Black, who was still quite a bit above Goku at that point iirc, I don't think some minuscule training in the gravity chamber would be enough to really close that gap.

Vegeta did indeed train in the RoSaT before the ToP. He also destroyed it, again, when he came out.

Except that he explicitly did better than SSBKKx20 Goku did against Jiren. Vegeta Blue was explicitLy pushing Jiren back, SSBKKx20 Goku was getting dominated.
 
There is because SSB Vegeta has no feats/statements/scaling putting him in any level beyond SSBKX20 Goku so yes we can assume that Jiren was holding back more then against SSBKX20 Goku hence SSB Vegeta was able to perform good and sure seeing through movement doesn't allow him to press Jiren but he was able to dodge Jiren attacks easily even shocking Jiren so it did play a huge role of Vegeta able to even punch Jiren without getting smacked first

Oh if you didn't mean that then ok and yes he is vastly superior to SSB Goku maybe even 2 to 3 times SSB Goku because he stomped Goku black who was stomping SSB Goku before

SSB Vegeta was just stomping Goku black so he would be stomp multiplier above Goku black who is stomp multiplier above SSB Goku but I dont know how much is a stomp multiplier so I still doubt that less than even a day or day training in another HTC would make Vegeta at level above SSBKX20 Goku when he has no feats supporting him to be above SSBKX20 Goku and Goku was training with Whis in gravity chamber so he definately would have gotten stronger not as much as Vegeta but still

Oh I see sorry I forgot

Doing better against Jiren who was holding back even more then against Goku and only reading the movements isn't a better feat than SSBKX20 Goku getting stomped by a less supressed Jiren
 
No, you can't lol. There's literally zero reason to assume that. And yes, like I said, Vegeta was able to dodge Jiren by seeing his movements. Him proceeding to push Jiren back has nothing to do with that and supports Vegeta Blue > Goku Blue Kaioken.

Well, considering that a day in the RoSaT was able to let Vegeta stomp Semi-Perfect Cell, who stomped Android 16, who could stomp 17, who was stronger than 18, who stomped Pre-RoSaT Vegeta... I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say Vegeta Blue is at least near Goku Blue Kaioken.

Except you can't just assume Jiren was more suppressed when there's no evidence to support that and Vegeta was not "only reading his movements" as you already conceded to.
 
Point is, Vegeta's ToP key should certainly be separate from his FT Saga key.
 
Yes we can since like I said again there is no statement/feats/scaling anything putting SSB Vegeta upto SSBKX20 Goku level or higher,He didn't push Jiren at the very least as his first punch didn't hurt Jiren at all he was only suprised while his second kick was what hurt Jiren knowing Jiren was still holding back immensely as moment Jiren stops holding back immensely and completed trashes Vegeta so him dodging and punching back a very supressed Jiren isn't a better feat than SSBKX20 Goku who was getting trashed by a stronger Jiren

Except that was with ASSJ which was the new transformation he gained and he didn't use SSJ for it because it wasn't strong enough so gap is still not as large as SSBKX20 Goku and SSB Vegeta which bare minimum has gap of 10 times between them possibly even more so not really one day wouldn't be enough for such a big gap otherwise SSB Vegeta after first HTC would be able to perform against Merged Zamasu better than SSBK10 Goku did

Except I can assume this because SSB Vegeta has no feats or statements akin to being at level of SSBKX20 Goku so yes Jiren was holding back more than he was in ep 109 in order for Vegeta to dominate a very supressed Jiren and Vegeta reading his movement can further justify as of why he was dodging Jiren attacks easily so moment Jiren stops holding back and goes back from very supressed to supressed Vegeta gets dominated competely and loses

Still disagree with Vegeta FT key being seperate from TOP key unless there is a huge difference in power or tier change which certainly isn't the case with ep 122
 
Vegeta gets a significant boost in power during the FT Saga, which is why it should be a separate key.
 
He grows stronger than Goku SSB that is the thing which remained constant with FT arc and TOP arc pre UIO 1 so I dont see why the seperate key but if you are saying it should be separate key from U6 vs U7 arc then I agree as Vegeta gets a boost in FT arc
 
Because Vegeta trained in the RoSaT agai before the ToP, and clearly got stronger. I honestly do not see any reason for the keys to be merged. I don't see why they're merged for Goku either, btw.
 
Yes I agree as Vegeta boost in first HTC was significant and second could be too so it should have a seperate key and same with Goku because he grows stronger than Goku black when enraged and after FT arc his SSB grows as strong as SSBKX10 of U6 vs U7 arc as he fought on par with Hit who was equal to SSBK10 Goku and in TOP arc his SSG grows equal to Hit so thats a huge increase for apparent no reason at all I swear DBS scaling is massive head ache to evaluate but I agree
 
Somebody experienced needs to do the actual work involved.
 
People idk if this has been brought up before but Vegeta when fighting Jiren at Ep 122 said that Jiren is stronger than anything they've faced before, so that should include Infinite Zamasu as far I am concerned.

Idk about Vegeta being Low 2-C from that because he still was an considerable disadvantage, but I think the FF should be possibly High 3-A or Low 2-C
 
What was the current sandbox again? I'm pretty exhausted due to just getting back from my RL Job atm, but I may be able to after some rest assuming I'm not busy.
 
@Medeus

Thank you for the help. Please don't overexert yourself.
 
Omegas03 said:
People idk if this has been brought up before but Vegeta when fighting Jiren at Ep 122 said that Jiren is stronger than anything they've faced before, so that should include Infinite Zamasu as far I am concerned.
Idk about Vegeta being Low 2-C from that because he still was an considerable disadvantage, but I think the FF should be possibly High 3-A or Low 2-C
Click to expand...
Good point but not sure whether he is about talking about Jiren suppressed power or Jiren power in general
 
^From the nature of the statement it likely means the power that Jiren was using at that point
IMG 20191202 140218
This should include Infinite Zamasu, thoughts? I dunno if Vegeta scales though. This was at Ep 122 btw.
 
Yeah, I created a disambiguation page for the time being until all those are taken care of.
 
Thanks again for the help. Are others willing to assist him with this?
 
On second thought I think we should let the disambiguation page stay as there are already 4 Vegeta now and I think people were also trying to create a profile for Heroes Vegeta too.

Anyway, I finally completed updating the links. The only thing left is to update the Dragon Ball verse page to add two Vegeta, one for Z and one for Super. Right now the sizes of the images I'm trying to upload are not fitting with other images in that gallery and I'm too exhausted to work it out so if someone else could do it, that'd be a great help.

SSJVegeta
SSBVegeta
 
Thank you very much for all of your help.

Should I insert both of those images into the Vegeta DBS page?
 
@Ant Under the Z fighters tab in the Dragon Ball verse page, 1st image for DBZ Vegeta and second for DBS Vegeta.
 
Aha. My apologies, but I am not very experienced with image galleries.
 
should that ssj blue one be for manga vegeta as he is the only one with that attack
 
You can ask Jvando for help if you wish. He created the image galleries.
 
I'm still not really sure why Vegeta (or Goku)'s FT Arc and ToP keys are merged.
 
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