Should we delete The Great Will's page ?

[MagiSinbad]

It's featless. never show up, could be YHVH himself ( Because Lucifer said that him and his power are created by the Great WIll, which make it connected to YHVH )

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. It seems to be an important part of the SMT lore, and YHVH could just be an aspect of it.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I don't know but they probably shouldn't be confused as such iirc in SMT2 after Alpeh fought YHVH and got killed YHVH said he is a small aspect of The Great Will but YHVH is the most notable aspect of The Great Will

 

[fandom_420Swagnemite]

Isn't The Creator from Umineko also featless, and never shwoed up?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

^ Never showed up, yes, but described as a True Omnipotent and infinitely higher than every single character in a verse that has High 1-A chars. It's far less of a leap.

 

[ToAruFan]

YHVH is not the Great Will. Also Metatron is not stronger than Kagatsuchi as Kagatsuchi was fought after Metatron

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Every single other SMT fan I talked to agrees that Metatron > Kagutsuchi.

 

[MagiSinbad]

YHVH is not the Great Will. Also Metatron is not stronger than Kagatsuchi as Kagatsuchi was fought after Metatro

December 23...

Back then, IV final hasnt released yet and the existence of the Great Will is still a BIG question mark

For Metatron question :

Strange journey revealed that Metatron is an important avatar of YHVH and combined with Berserk Lord Demiurge, they have achieved YHVH's former glory. Further more Naoya (whose real identity was Cain, Metatron's uncle) from Devil Survivor Overlocked have stated that only God is above him (Well, that is because Satan was absent anyway)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Magi

How do you reconcile when we see powerful demons who should be Multiverse level+ appear as generic enemies, often in clones of themselves, at end game dungeons.

Like, in Final, Metatron is a generic enemy in the final bit of the game.

 

[ToAruFan]

Every single other SMT fan I talked to agrees that Metatron > Kagutsuchi.

But that makes no sense because if that was true, then Kagutsuchi wouldnt have been a big deal considering Demi Fiend beat Metatron way before Kagutsuchi. And not to mention Metatron was still affected by Conception which means he is still under Kagutsuchis influence.

Metatron is an avatar of YHVH and Kagutsuchi is an avatar of the Great Will. Metatron is YHVHs second strongest avatar after Demiurge, but not stronger than Kagutsuchi who is an avatar of Great Will.

 

[Tivanenk]

@Magi
How do you reconcile when we see powerful demons who should be Multiverse level+ appear as generic enemies, often in clones of themselves, at end game dungeons.

Like, in Final, Metatron is a generic enemy in the final bit of the game.

That was the very endgame where YHVH was making these Metatrons hundreds of times. He even took an endless amount of versions of himself to fight in the final battle.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@ToAruFan

Kagutsuchi is not an avatar of The Great Will. By the time of Nocturne, The Great Will was treated as being identical to YHVH (Considering how Lucifer also said he was created by The Great Will, and it's pretty clear he was created by YHVH as every other game says).

 

[Tivanenk]

@ToAruFan
Kagutsuchi is not an avatar of The Great Will. By the time of Nocturne, The Great Will was treated as being identical to YHVH (Considering how Lucifer also said he was created by The Great Will, and it's pretty clear he was created by YHVH as every other game says).

Which turned out to be false, and YHVH is separate from the Great Will. Lucifer also said in SMT IV that he's equal to YHVH which is clearly not the case, he bses a lot. And Kagutsuchi is explicitly stated to be a part of the Great Will.

 

[MagiSinbad]

How do you reconcile when we see powerful demons who should be Multiverse level+ appear as generic enemies, often in clones of themselves, at end game dungeons.

'Like, in Final, Metatron is a generic enemy in the final bit of the game'.

I really dont understand your question. But i kinda want to avoid from making any discussion related to IV Final. As the Apocalypse hasnt came out yet, i will leave it a side

But that makes no sense because if that was true, then Kagutsuchi wouldnt have been a big deal considering Demi Fiend beat Metatron way before Kagutsuchi. And not to mention Metatron was still affected by Conception which means he is still under Kagutsuchis influence.

Metatron was still affected by Conception ? when ? How ?

Kagutsuchi was never a big deal to Hitoshura at the time he beat Metatron. Entire true demon route was a loooong test that was set up by Lucifer to see if Hitoshura is the ultimate demon of darkness that Lucifer has been looking for.

Metatron is an avatar of YHVH and Kagutsuchi is an avatar of the Great Will. Metatron is YHVHs second strongest avatar after Demiurge, but not stronger than Kagutsuchi who is an avatar of Great Will.

The problem is :

While the Great Will of SMT IV Final is the true neutral entity. The Great Will in SMT 3 is huge lawfag whom Lucifer oppose to

And Lucifer only has one enemy, YHVH

 

[Fllflourine]

Question, where is it stated that YHVH is nothing more than an infinitesimally small fragment of the Great Will? As well as it being infinitely superior to anything else in the SMT franchise? Is it in SMT IV Final?

 

[Tivanenk]

True YHVH dwarfs an endless amount of Base YHVHs.

 

[Fllflourine]

True YHVH dwarfs an endless amount of Base YHVHs.

True, but I meant the source for where The Great Will dwarfs True YHVH by an infinite amount

 

[Antvasima]

Given that this topic has strayed from its original purpose, it may be best if I close it.