Should all Pokemon be at least Transonic?

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is just a question that came up. Considering how a all Pokemon can react to sound moves such as Uproar, Hyper Voice, Boomblast, Screech, and Supersonic, and can react to moves such as Mach Punch and the other priority moves, including the much faster Extremespeed, should they get that level of reaction time/combat speed? Also, the title is a bit misleading. By all, I mean adolescent forms and onwards. Not fodder like Caterpie, Teddiursa, or Wurmple, but stuff like Weavile, Electrode, Sudowuudo (I'm positive I've spelled that wrong) or Scizor.

I'm fully okay with a no.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Eh, im okay with what your suggesting. Unless the pokemon has an other feat to scale from

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ive been wondering this as well, there are over a dozen moves that use sound waves as an attack, so they should technically scale as most pokemon are able to dodge these attacks without issue.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I feel as if this is highlight-worthy.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I take this happens quite a lot in the series for many of them, right?

I don't see why we can't put them for this if they do in fact move at Transonic speeds.

 

[Promestein]

Yes, this seems fine to me too.

 

[Arigarmy]

You're talking about the "But X evaded the attack!" phrase said about avoiding it rather than the usual statement about it missing, am I correct? If it's possible for them to evade those moves, I don't see anything wrong for the most part. It's evasion from what I can tell that's being described, not accuracy, so I can get down with this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I guess?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Well, such sound based attacks like Growl, roar, Supersonic and Screech are extremely common moves amongst low-level Pokemon, esepcially Growl amongst the ones listed. It is true that some Pokemon can dodge these attacks (Supersonic being a prime example as well as the move Sonic Boom or Sing). An argument could be made for most Pokemon in general, but even if those far weaker ones aren't counted then I can get behind this upgrade.

I do believe that such Pokemon that can outright learn moves like Supersonic or Sonic Boom, however, may also have a right to be upgraded as well. At the very least, it could solely be appicable to attack speed.

 

[Imaginym]

First off, I'm confused as to why you group Teddiursa with weak, early route, stage 1 bugs like Caterpie & Wurmple. It's not THAT awful, fodder or not. It probably scales to Ursaring, which has a page on our Wiki: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ursaring And even regular Ursaring are scary things to be scaled from if I'm reading these Pokedex entries from:

LeafGree	Although it is a good climber, it prefers to snap stout trees with its forelegs and eat fallen Berries.

Wonder if it's worth looking into if any of the Pickup items that can be used with Fling yield interesting results.... Anyway, it's definitely questionable just how easily we can "fodderize" most species, in my opinion. Some definitely lack feats, good entries, abilities & movepools, though.


But anyway....

Another technicality is that although plenty of Pokemon learn Growl as a move, early on:

Growl can be evaded, I suppose, since we can get things like "The Pokemon evaded the attack"/"The attack missed", as opposed to "the move failed".

However, it may also be worth considering that Growl, IMHO, may not be sound as much as other moves, if you ask me.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Growl_(move)#Descriptio

SM	The user growls in an endearing way, making opposing Pokémon less wary. This lowers their Attack stat.

Hearing it definitely contributes to the effect, so evading the sound could interfere. I'm unsure how much of Growl's effect is based on the foe's emotional state, unless it's a sort of hax. The move's original name "Òü¬ÒüìÒüöÒüê"

​

which translates as "Cry" also doesn't exactly inspire fear as much as "Growl", IMHO.

Especially given some of the definitions I could find: http://www.romajidesu.com/dictionary/meaning-of-nakigoe.html

Leer is of a similar nature, if you care to look it up.


Although I suppose how Growl causes the effect, so long as it can be evaded is kind of on-topic.

Hearing it definitely contributes to the effect, so evading the sound could interfere.

For what it's worth, I'm not opposed to this. It's possible it could simply be game mechanics accounting for accuracy for the sake of balance, but Pokemon are fantastical creatures, with in-universe books suggesting they're capable fighters & various things pointing to them being fairly capable of reasoning.

Comparable to real world animals in anatomy & sometimes physical or biological or maybe other sorts of abilities as they may be, I believe Pokemon can achieve much greater things than a mere animal. Many or the majority of them being able to move at transonic speeds doesn't seem TOO out of place to me.


So, if you'll forgive my wordyness & going off-topic, in summary, I support this, if that matters.

 

[Kaltias]

I don't really get why the fodder shouldn't scale. If they can react to a Mach 1 attack they should be somewhere in this range, shouldn't they?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

This sounds ok to me.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Im ok with this.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I support this.

 

[Legion350]

I agree with this also

 

[DaFritzi]

I'm not sure. We shouldn't use the fact that pokemon can avoid sound attacks ingame as an argument. They can evade those attacks because of game mechanics, not because of speed.

I'm not well versed with the anime or manga. If we have feats from those sources backing up this suggestion then I can agree with Pokemon getting transonic reaction speed. Combat speed is debatable but seems plausible as well.

 

[Vrokorta]

Honestly, I think it's just a game mechanic. I guess it makes sense that they can move that fast, but it sounds a little ridiculous.

 

[Dark649]

I also think that is game mechanic, since dodging it is something that only trained pokémon can do and it's not something that a Wild Lv┬░ 2 Rattata can do.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree that this is game mechanics.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

If most people agree with this, I suppose we can make the changes now....

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I'm also okay with this. It's decently consistent with Pokemon being able to react to moves like Mach Punch and other priority moves (assuming they're all equal in speed to Mach Punch).

 

[Dark649]

I disagree since you can't expect a level 1 Pokémon to dodge and react to these moves.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Didn't we base speed on dodging attacks in-game? Disgea has a MFTL+ feat because of this.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

@Dark649

We base our stats off of a Pokemons peak potential regardless, unless you think all Pokemon should be scaled to their "Level 1" stats (which outside from a few vague mentions in the anime is probably just gameplay mechaics).

 

[Dark649]

Ok. I agree, but before proceeding we need to consult AidenBrook999, who is an expert on the verse.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Meanwhile, I'm just trying to imagine a Pyukumuku going Mach 1

 

[Naitez]

I can't imagine Shuckle being Transonic. It is the slowest Pokemon in the game and there hasn't been anything slower than it since it's introduction.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're using gameplay mechanics + personal disbelief to argue. Doesn't work that way.

 

[Vrokorta]

You're using gameplay mechanics + personal disbelief to argue. Doesn't work that way.

Actually, if it's a game mechanic, it probably does work that way.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Guy is saying that since Shulker is slow in-game that means he must be slow in term of VS Debating. Gameplay mechanics doesn't apply when debating their stats in-universe.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Vrokorta By that logic Arceus being killed by a starly is 100% legit...

A lot of things on the Pokemon games are strictly game mechanics

 

[Naitez]

@Vrokorta By that logic Arceus being killed by a starly is 100% legit...

A lot of things on the Pokemon games are strictly game mechanics

Such as Shuckle being able to deal the highest damage possible out of any Pokemon but only under very specific circumstances.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Naste Exactly

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Anybody calling this gameplay mechanics needs to look at our page on Game Mechanics.

"Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character/entity's actual abilities."

Just because it happens within gameplay doesn't necessarily mean that it qualifies as gameplay mechanics.

However I think it's a bit ridiculous to put ALL Pokemon at Transonic because of this. There are Pokemon like Caterpie, Weedle, and Nosepass who clearly aren't Transonic at all.

 

[PenMightSword]

However I think it's a bit ridiculous to put ALL Pokemon at Transonic because of this. There are Pokemon like Caterpie, Weedle, and Nosepass who clearly aren't Transonic at all.

I agree with this. After all, what about Slowbro or Snorlax?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Pen In the anime a Slowbro kept up with Charizard and have you SEEN Sonrlax's Z-Move?

 

[PenMightSword]

On Slowbro I was going by his base speed stats in the games, forgetting the anime, and no to the second question.

I stand corrected then.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah we dont use in-game stats to justify ratings here, otherwise anything with a base speed higher than 120 would have immeasureable speed for being faster than Arceus... And yeah lol Snorlax literally sprints and body slams his opponent as his Z-move, he's not as slow as you think he is, plus Red's Snorlax in the manga had some decent speed feats even before he caught him

 

[PenMightSword]

Sorry about that, Im still new here.