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Shiro VS Izuru Kamukura (In a game of chess)
- Thread starter The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy
- Start date
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It should be inconclusive, Lasatar has stated why.
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Well, it might be mini-Necro but I also vote on inconclusive thx to ultimate luck/asspull/whatevs.
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Hasn't Shiro faced and won against opponents exactly like that? I mean, checking upon many more possibilities than a human could ever imagine being able to is what the Deep Blue A.I. did in the past and it lost to a human once (although ultimately won because it was a best of 3). Doing better than that looks like a high-end AI from nowadays would do... and that's the kind of stuff Shiro alone managed to face twenty times and remain having 『ÒÇÇÒÇÇ』's reputation of "As long as the possibility of victory exists, 『ÒÇÇÒÇÇ』 will not know defeat" kept.
What I mean is that the siblings have fought against machines doing "the best movement possible" before, and they won. Shiro alone did that. Even if the ultimate clairvoyant can check an insane amount of possibilities for the ultimate analyst to analyse and the ultimate luck to give off the best movement from possibly "among them and beyond"... isn't that just one step ahead of a computer? I don't see why would this be enough.
EDIT: If we're talking of selecting the best possible move... Sora literally states that's the reaso they can beat those. Is selecting the best movement really enough against 『ÒÇÇÒÇÇ』? Their feats seem a bit beyond that even when just speaking of chess.
What I mean is that the siblings have fought against machines doing "the best movement possible" before, and they won. Shiro alone did that. Even if the ultimate clairvoyant can check an insane amount of possibilities for the ultimate analyst to analyse and the ultimate luck to give off the best movement from possibly "among them and beyond"... isn't that just one step ahead of a computer? I don't see why would this be enough.
EDIT: If we're talking of selecting the best possible move... Sora literally states that's the reaso they can beat those. Is selecting the best movement really enough against 『ÒÇÇÒÇÇ』? Their feats seem a bit beyond that even when just speaking of chess.
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"Hasn't Shiro faced and won against opponents exactly like that?" No.
"Checking upon many more possibilities than a human could ever imagine being able to is what the Deepl Blue A.I. did in the past and it lost to a human once." Deep blue can't check nearly as many possibilities as Shiro knows off by heart.
"What I mean is that the siblings have fought against machines doing 'the best movement possibile' before, and they won" Because they weren't actually doing the universal best move possible. Computers would take millions of years to process all the possibilities a few moves into a chess match, while Shiro has literally memorized all of them. Ultimate luck and ultimate clairvoyant don't seem to be limited like a computer is, but limited to what is possible, and as long as it is possible to play a series of moves that would never lose to Shiro, izuru would be able to do it.
Computers are limited by their processing power. Magical abilities like ultimate clairvoyant and ultimate luck don't seem to be, at least from how they were explained to me.
It should be inconclusive, as Shiro will always pick whichever move she knows will never lead to a loss due to memorizing all board positions, and Izuru will luck into whichever move will never lead to a loss, due to ultimate luck.
"Checking upon many more possibilities than a human could ever imagine being able to is what the Deepl Blue A.I. did in the past and it lost to a human once." Deep blue can't check nearly as many possibilities as Shiro knows off by heart.
"What I mean is that the siblings have fought against machines doing 'the best movement possibile' before, and they won" Because they weren't actually doing the universal best move possible. Computers would take millions of years to process all the possibilities a few moves into a chess match, while Shiro has literally memorized all of them. Ultimate luck and ultimate clairvoyant don't seem to be limited like a computer is, but limited to what is possible, and as long as it is possible to play a series of moves that would never lose to Shiro, izuru would be able to do it.
Computers are limited by their processing power. Magical abilities like ultimate clairvoyant and ultimate luck don't seem to be, at least from how they were explained to me.
It should be inconclusive, as Shiro will always pick whichever move she knows will never lead to a loss due to memorizing all board positions, and Izuru will luck into whichever move will never lead to a loss, due to ultimate luck.
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If you make an analogy, comparing Shiro against a Computer is a little bit off.
Instead, think of it as way beyond a Computer's intelligence with bullshit in it, analytical and luck wise. His ultimate analyst can't just be used for chess, if it isn't that useful in chess, he can also analyze Shiro with it, don't forget that. Her patterns, personality, abilities, thoughts and her history, with that, he can analyze her weaknesses and possibly abuse them. He completely understands how the human brain works, which probably even helps his analytical talent. Izuru also has talents like therapy, neurology, psychology and probably some other stuff that are useful for other things as well, not just human understanding but conversations which means he has talents that aren't only useful for one thing but also other things and those can back his Ultimate Analyst up, if it isn't enough.
And also the Ultimate Luck, he can do this with a tie or a win even if he has no knowledge of chess or a certain challenge, even though it's likely that he knows chess. I am not spouting random stuff here, here's a probable example. He didn't even look at the one he took out and he shouldn't have guessed it right without the use of Ultimate Analyst but he did anyways. Likely the very low chance increased to a near hundred.
He also beat Chiaki in games, best grill gamer vs "everything is boring" grill. Apparently the best grill gamer, for the fandom. Chiaki is not a genius but it means he has a possible talent that is game oriented, has experiences with games and Ultimate Analyst can be used outside the box, not just for movements and chess patterns but can be used at the enemies themselves. Yes, it's possible to apply all that intellect and be on equal footing specially with high enough luck/bullshit.
(The interactions are non-canon. However, the talents and capabilities aren't made up). I just used the video as a source because it's a single source and I was too lazy finding a different source per argument.
EDIT: Looking back at my argument, it looks like Izuru might actually win.
Instead, think of it as way beyond a Computer's intelligence with bullshit in it, analytical and luck wise. His ultimate analyst can't just be used for chess, if it isn't that useful in chess, he can also analyze Shiro with it, don't forget that. Her patterns, personality, abilities, thoughts and her history, with that, he can analyze her weaknesses and possibly abuse them. He completely understands how the human brain works, which probably even helps his analytical talent. Izuru also has talents like therapy, neurology, psychology and probably some other stuff that are useful for other things as well, not just human understanding but conversations which means he has talents that aren't only useful for one thing but also other things and those can back his Ultimate Analyst up, if it isn't enough.
And also the Ultimate Luck, he can do this with a tie or a win even if he has no knowledge of chess or a certain challenge, even though it's likely that he knows chess. I am not spouting random stuff here, here's a probable example. He didn't even look at the one he took out and he shouldn't have guessed it right without the use of Ultimate Analyst but he did anyways. Likely the very low chance increased to a near hundred.
He also beat Chiaki in games, best grill gamer vs "everything is boring" grill. Apparently the best grill gamer, for the fandom. Chiaki is not a genius but it means he has a possible talent that is game oriented, has experiences with games and Ultimate Analyst can be used outside the box, not just for movements and chess patterns but can be used at the enemies themselves. Yes, it's possible to apply all that intellect and be on equal footing specially with high enough luck/bullshit.
(The interactions are non-canon. However, the talents and capabilities aren't made up). I just used the video as a source because it's a single source and I was too lazy finding a different source per argument.
EDIT: Looking back at my argument, it looks like Izuru might actually win.
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- Thread starter
- #52
Once again, Is it possible to add this kind of battle in their profile?
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The pictures used for both characters in this thread are scaringly... similar, I just noticed.
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- Thread starter
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this is that similarity that make me wanted to do this threadJust a Random Butler said:
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Yeah, they are VERY similar because both of them are geniuses and they lack emotions but the only difference here is:
"Shiro has trouble dealing with the human aspects of games, reading human opponents and predicting their moves." if only she could at least have no trouble with it.
inb4, Shiro will have the Ultimate Analyst which will make Shiro even more op.
"Shiro has trouble dealing with the human aspects of games, reading human opponents and predicting their moves." if only she could at least have no trouble with it.
inb4, Shiro will have the Ultimate Analyst which will make Shiro even more op.
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Shiro unleashes his Reality Marble an-
-Wait-
-Wrong Shiro. XD
-Wait-
-Wrong Shiro. XD
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Shiro = "his".
what is this conspiracy?
what is this conspiracy?
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I thought it was this shiro. 
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Well, you thought wrong, HAH.
Is that despairing now?
EDIT: Actually thought it was a fusion of Shiro and Shiro just like Hajime's fusion.
Is that despairing now?
EDIT: Actually thought it was a fusion of Shiro and Shiro just like Hajime's fusion.
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I'M BONE OF MY SWO-#Slapped.
Looking all of this,i goes inconclusive FRA.
Looking all of this,i goes inconclusive FRA.
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I think Izuru might be able to win using bullshit- er, luck. For instance, if they were playing using touch-move rules, his luck could cause her to accidentally touch the wrong piece and force her into an imperfect move, and allow him to win. Along with his Ultimate Analysis, Ultimate Gamer, Ultimate Imposter, and Ultimate Clarivoyant, I believe he is capable of victory.
I cast my vote for Izuru.
I cast my vote for Izuru.
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Even though this is a necro, are you sure that Izuru's luck causes the opponent to make bad moves they otherwise wouldn't?Timesmashaperil said:
I figured Izuru would luck into the best possible move, and Shiro would know the best possible move so it would be inconclusive, but if Izuru can cause Shiro to make a move she knows is bad, then I guess he could win.
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His luck is greater that this douchebag who can single handly almost thwarted Junko global scale plan if not beceuse Izuru himself.
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Oops, this is a necro. Sorry about that. And yeah, Izuru's luck caused Komaeda's gun to jam, despite him also holding Ultimate Luck, so it could be feasible for it to force Shiro into a mistake and allow him to win.
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izuru FRA
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