Shinza Banshou downgrade

[Kenichichan]

I agree

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

agree with downgrades = 11-12

disagree with Downgrade = 11

rest are neutral or disagree

Disagree

 

[Everything12]

We still need more staff opinions before this goes anywhere.

 

[Megaraptor149]

I'm disagree with downgrade

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

We still need more staff opinions before this goes anywhere.

I expect that this is likely gonna get rejected, given the counter arguments against the point of the thread(Tho there is not so much staff members covering the verse in purpose).

 

[Fixxed]

Disagree

 

[KageSakaDark]

With such a big verse, this probably should be staff only. .-.

 

[Bernkastelll]

With such a big verse, this probably should be staff only. .-.

No, Staff only when its about tier of verses and characters never is a good idea

 

[YungManzi]

No, Staff only when its about tier of verses and characters never is a good idea

I think it is a good idea under certain circumstances. Although I wouldn't say this is one of them.

Think of why a CRT thread would be staff-only from a staff perspective. You can't have 20+ supporters flooding the thread before staff members can even get to it; then expect staff, who do this for free as a hobby btw, to read through thousands of messages and form an adequate response from that.

Anyway, I'm neutral here.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Staff Only only should be allowed when the verse is so heated and controversial leaving it open would turn into a raging flame war, such as the HST or even Marvel/DC in some cases.

Shinza, while controversial, never devolves into massive flamewars on this site, and so far, the conversation has gone by very smoothly

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

It's a simple manner by the way.
I'm still on my position of not agreeing with this CRT, the Singularity having infinite size isn't anything new since Paradise Lost standards, anyway, just agreeing with RedGrave and Tony's arguments.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The "fall endlessly" part is very likely just a translation gimmick, considering the japanese text doesn't say anything along the lines. When I translated that scan along with context of some previous dialogue I got this

Do you then continue to fall to the bottom of the hole with him forever? Is that what you want?

How does this disprove it? They will keep going forever, never able to reach the throne or the bottom of the hole

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. "Unreachable" can mean a lot of things. In fact, the current view of the singularity treats the "unreachable" as being due to esoteric properties of Taikyoku, not size as it is argued that without Taikyoku backing it up they will be able to ignore the difference.

I think you don't even know what you are saying here, its obviously infinite for Yato, unable to ever reach the bottom like Rein and Ren above, because they don't have the power to match their godheads.

Treating it as infinite doesn't make sense with the fact they can lol nope it if it's not backed by the throne god.

THATS THE WHOLE POINT, the singularity is infinite yada, yada, but without another god backing it up it is meaningless to the gods. That is, again, the whole reason for H1-A. I can't see how you don't understand this.

It doesn't matter for the context of this thread. The very fact it "reacts" to "encompass" them means it's tier is not static.

it matters, because the throne is above any and all expansions of the "lower cosmology", no matter how big or how small it is. In this case since Mer came into existence it became a multiverse set and even before that ParaLost has a bunch of higher dimensions stuff going on. The point is, the throne is always above it, no matter what and so the gods are above the throne.

And if I am not mistaken the throne literally controls the flow of Hadou Gods' power, so it isn't far fetched that it utilises some of the power for itself as well to rise along with the god.

It keeps the spiritual mass of the gods in check, preventing them from destroying everything, that is enough to say it is above the singularity and anything below, also, like I said before the throne was supposed to be destroyed when Hajun was still sitting on it so yeah, even if it takes the power of a god it doesnt rise along them.

It's never really implied they are about to open infinite holes to go down. The "there will be no end to this" was more so referring to the fight between Ren and Reinhard(since as far I understand fight between gods of equal Taikyoku is an eternal stalemate). It seems very likely that's what the idea was considering mercurious talks about "defilement" of the twilight beach. It's just saying that as long as they continue to fight they will keep making holes wherever they fight eternally.

Because the twilight beach somehow stopped being part of the singularity that they opened, yes, obviously...

The scans are pretty straigh forward even considering the og one you used above, it will go endlessly, forever for them, going deeper and deeper.

And even IF we assume the depth is truly infinite for each step, it's still pretty vague overall and doesn't really equate to as difference as big as coming outside the painting itself, which will have been a requirement for even getting one layer higher into 1-A.

How is "pretty vague" when we explicitly see how Reinhard and Ren will be unable to reach the throne no matter what with Merc still treating them as children and playing along with them (something he stops doing in Rea route)

I already explained why

As I did.

ok? You just said yourself that the unsurmountableness is not explictly because of size, so I suppose we are good here?

I think you missed the point. The singularity is infinite, the gods go through that like it was nothing, the singularity gets backed up by a stronger god and it becomes an infinite hole they have to drill through using their laws but no matter how deep they go they will never reach the bottom.

Exactly. None of that is significant proof...

That's your problem and your headcanon then, nothing for me to do there.

Yes, the singularity goes through a series of realms all of which can act as something to be "painted" on(ex: after going beyond the paper they reached the blank slate)

it is not part of any painting itself. As such, the statements applying to things inside the painting cannot really apply to it.

You are missing that this is still the canvas for Mercurius to keep making the world as he likes, not the challangers who will never reach it, and thus still applies to the statements of them being inside the painting.

Yes, when they fall through a hole they reach a deeper "paintable" realm. But does it continue endlessly? evidently no as the long series of realms ends at the throne. We really don't know what the specifics behind this are, but we know that it's not the "fall" itself that's the problem. But more so the act of making the holes themselves as we know if Mercurious stops backing it they will be able to end the fall casually. The whole thing is very vague really. It's entirely possible that the time it takes them to drill increases exponentially with each step, which will make the time it takes to reach the end pretty much infinite. Hell, i haven't even brought up the possibility that it might just be a hyperbole in the first place.

It isn't, it is pretty easy to understand yet for some reason you keep searching for explanations that aren't the one proposed that makes the most sense with the evidence posted.

It makes literally 0 sense that Hadou Gods will gain ontological superiority over the singularity once it stops being backed by the throne god.

It completly makes sense, thats the whole reason for fighting and killing the other gods.

The singularity realms, the throne and the Gods(In this perspective painters/paintbrushes) effectively seem to exist at the same ontological level

The, once again, don't. The singularity is far below the throne and them and only is effectively doing something against another god when the Godhead is there, backing it up. The throne is a weird tool and I'm far from the expert (who left) so I can't say much besides what we know and we know the thing is above the singularity and can keep the mass of the godhead in check.

Yes because a blank slate is obviously harder than a paper. It's entirely possible if they have to put more and more force they reach a point where it's effectively impossible to proceed.

As we saw with Yato, who keept drilling and falling yet never reaching the throne, its obvious that they will continue endlessly without ever reaching the throne.

I see nothing that implies anything like that.

you are blind bro

Being a God in Shinza Banshou effectively grants temporal superiority to the multiverse. As far as I understand Hajun and Yato effectively exist on the same temporal level, hence It's very likely the scan was hyperbolic.

I have a picture here, we exist in the same "temporal level", that doesn't mean the picture can ever do anything to me as it is basically fiction to me. I still fail to see how it is hyperbolic.

Again, the throne isn't exactly static and rises along with creation to encompass it.

That doesnt change a thing tho, it will ever be above it all.

If destroying the throne in case of Hajun takes someone whose taikyoku is 65(?), their strongest attack, it seems very clear someone with lower taikyoku will not be able to do it.

Considering that Hajun was still seated there it is more of a feat for him than for the taikyoku users.

******* traps man.

I have been fooled too, I know the feelings its just pain-peko ;_;

Anyway, First off, that quote was about difference between "someone from reality" and "someone inside the painting"

The realms of the singularity are canvases on which the act of painting itself is done, they are not part of the painting itself. And I still find it weird why the inaccessibility quotes from soujirou vs Akuro are applied to paint of the hadou gods as it's evidently not an ontological difference given howthe paint of a higher god can casually overwrite them.

Because it is the same exact thing, everything in the canvas is nothing but a picture for them, it seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

No again the only reason the gods can't just steamroll a singularity is cuz the godhead is there to even prevent them to be challenged like...at all. The gudous can get in no problem and even mibu can just slash the throne (again its simply because its his law to be a living blade anyway) with the fact how the throne is only used to make sure a god doesn't crush creation from their mass alone.

How is it vague when its pretty clear cut about how the singularity is. Literally the singularity is infinite and the other fact is that it birthed all the things within the lowest part which is the multiverse (its in ravy's blog btw).


And singularity is still part of creation and is used by the gods as some gateway against the challenger. The challenger only drills endlessly as the singularity won't be bypass by a weaker god. Same value or higher will just blitz to the bottom like with Hajun as he crushed all 4 gods (Ren was so irrelevant he didn't check if he was dead). I also have to add Hajun even when his tumor was reincarnated (this is how we got rea route) fought against Marie, Rein, Merc and Ren in which all had the same taiji value. Yet Hajun managed to kill Marie, Rein and Ren while leaving Merc with practicallly 1 hp. So this is another case in where even with same Taiji values it won't even be an eternal stalemate at all. When one simply falls into a singularity they must have the same value in order to even reach the godhead as I believe i said many times already. Rein and Ren kept falling and Merc was saying they will just keep going without end goes in line with this.

「穴」の深さはその代における座の神格の強度に応じたものとなり、水銀が座を握っていた時の深さは、せいぜい常人が呼吸を止めていられる時間で到達することが出来る深さだった。それを踏まえて、第六天波旬が座に坐している今の深さは遥かな昔から落下し続けているにも拘らず到達し得ない深度”

This describes the singularities depth and how the depth of the hole depends on the strength of the divinity of the throne in that generation.

I'm also pretty sure what I've posted like Yakou's dive is to put his existence into a "deeper" and more powerful existence to withstand it. So there is proof that the depth is also affected. Ravy's blog already gave details to how the depths of the singularity work

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Do you then continue to fall to the bottom of the hole with him forever? Is that what you want?

How does this disprove it? They will keep going forever, never able to reach the throne or the bottom of the hole



I think you don't even know what you are saying here, its obviously infinite for Yato, unable to ever reach the bottom like Rein and Ren above, because they don't have the power to match their godheads.



THATS THE WHOLE POINT, the singularity is infinite yada, yada, but without another god backing it up it is meaningless to the gods. That is, again, the whole reason for H1-A. I can't see how you don't understand this.



it matters, because the throne is above any and all expansions of the "lower cosmology", no matter how big or how small it is. In this case since Mer came into existence it became a multiverse set and even before that ParaLost has a bunch of higher dimensions stuff going on. The point is, the throne is always above it, no matter what and so the gods are above the throne.



It keeps the spiritual mass of the gods in check, preventing them from destroying everything, that is enough to say it is above the singularity and anything below, also, like I said before the throne was supposed to be destroyed when Hajun was still sitting on it so yeah, even if it takes the power of a god it doesnt rise along them.



Because the twilight beach somehow stopped being part of the singularity that they opened, yes, obviously...

The scans are pretty straigh forward even considering the og one you used above, it will go endlessly, forever for them, going deeper and deeper.



How is "pretty vague" when we explicitly see how Reinhard and Ren will be unable to reach the throne no matter what with Merc still treating them as children and playing along with them (something he stops doing in Rea route)



As I did.



I think you missed the point. The singularity is infinite, the gods go through that like it was nothing, the singularity gets backed up by a stronger god and it becomes an infinite hole they have to drill through using their laws but no matter how deep they go they will never reach the bottom.



That's your problem and your headcanon then, nothing for me to do there.


it is not part of any painting itself. As such, the statements applying to things inside the painting cannot really apply to it.

You are missing that this is still the canvas for Mercurius to keep making the world as he likes, not the challangers who will never reach it, and thus still applies to the statements of them being inside the painting.



It isn't, it is pretty easy to understand yet for some reason you keep searching for explanations that aren't the one proposed that makes the most sense with the evidence posted.



It completly makes sense, thats the whole reason for fighting and killing the other gods.



The, once again, don't. The singularity is far below the throne and them and only is effectively doing something against another god when the Godhead is there, backing it up. The throne is a weird tool and I'm far from the expert (who left) so I can't say much besides what we know and we know the thing is above the singularity and can keep the mass of the godhead in check.



As we saw with Yato, who keept drilling and falling yet never reaching the throne, its obvious that they will continue endlessly without ever reaching the throne.



you are blind bro



I have a picture here, we exist in the same "temporal level", that doesn't mean the picture can ever do anything to me as it is basically fiction to me. I still fail to see how it is hyperbolic.



That doesnt change a thing tho, it will ever be above it all.



Considering that Hajun was still seated there it is more of a feat for him than for the taikyoku users.



I have been fooled too, I know the feelings its just pain-peko ;_;


The realms of the singularity are canvases on which the act of painting itself is done, they are not part of the painting itself. And I still find it weird why the inaccessibility quotes from soujirou vs Akuro are applied to paint of the hadou gods as it's evidently not an ontological difference given howthe paint of a higher god can casually overwrite them.

Because it is the same exact thing, everything in the canvas is nothing but a picture for them, it seems pretty clear cut to me.

The Singularity having infinite size isn't anything new since Paradise Lost standards.
The size of the creation itself varies through the era, it can be a universe or even a Multiverse.(Mercurius's case is pretty much obvious, since his creation was literally stated to contain infinite concepts).

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The Singularity having infinite size isn't anything new since Paradise Lost standards.
The size of the creation itself varies through the era, it can be a universe or even a Multiverse.(Mercurius's case is pretty much obvious, since his creation was literally stated to contain infinite concepts).

I know, im sorry I forgot about it but i mentioned it in my last response, somewhere :'v

 

[Maxnumb231]

Following... and as far as I can tell the the soujirou cutting the throne is the argument, but if can someone correct me the only reason why it's successful was because Hajun was not on the throne. if this the case then I don't think using that scene can be implicate to the whole CRT. It seems as though at the end you kept attacking the throne part, which the throne would not exist if it wasn't for taikyoku existing etc.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

I mean considering "singularity" As not part of painting is vague tbh

It's also explicitly explained in KKK with Yakou statement

 

[ZERO7772]

OP seems make sense
I agree to the changes

 

[Darksmash]

Do you then continue to fall to the bottom of the hole with him forever? Is that what you want?

How does this disprove it? They will keep going forever, never able to reach the throne or the bottom of the hole

I think you don't even know what you are saying here, its obviously infinite for Yato, unable to ever reach the bottom like Rein and Ren above, because they don't have the power to match their godheads.

Let me put the process of getting hadou gods to High 1-A in points:-
1) A higher god generates a much deeper singularity than the lower god
2) This "depth" is infinitely deeper because A god with lower divinity cannot drill through it
3) When it's not being backed by the throne god the hadou god can ignore it's size
Clearly points 2 and 3 contradict each other, because if size was the only factor for it being unreachable, it would have continued to stay like that even when the god stopped powering it.
As Red also pointed out, it's because Yato was facing Hajun's law directly or some shit. Gudou gods crossed it because they didn't have to do it. It's just basic logic that depth increase was not the factor why they couldn't cross the singularity. It's either that or the singularity is only bottomless when directly facing the throne god. It won't be high 1-A in either case.

it matters, because the throne is above any and all expansions of the "lower cosmology", no matter how big or how small it is. In this case since Mer came into existence it became a multiverse set and even before that ParaLost has a bunch of higher dimensions stuff going on. The point is, the throne is always above it, no matter what and so the gods are above the throne.

It keeps the spiritual mass of the gods in check, preventing them from destroying everything, that is enough to say it is above the singularity and anything below, also, like I said before the throne was supposed to be destroyed when Hajun was still sitting on it so yeah, even if it takes the power of a god it doesnt rise along them.

And it's not static, so it doesn't matter.

Because the twilight beach somehow stopped being part of the singularity that they opened, yes, obviously...

The scans are pretty straigh forward even considering the og one you used above, it will go endlessly, forever for them, going deeper and deeper.

How is "pretty vague" when we explicitly see how Reinhard and Ren will be unable to reach the throne no matter what with Merc still treating them as children and playing along with them (something he stops doing in Rea route)

The scans saying "there will be no end to this" was pretty vague, but it does not matter as I already demonstrated them taking forever to reach the bottom isn't and can't be explictly because of size.

I think you missed the point. The singularity is infinite, the gods go through that like it was nothing, the singularity gets backed up by a stronger god and it becomes an infinite hole they have to drill through using their laws but no matter how deep they go they will never reach the bottom.

And it is not because of increase in size, but because of the godhead. Hence it cannot be used as an argument to prove singularity expansions are transcendent in size. Whether the base depth is infinite or not doesn't matter.

That's your problem and your headcanon then, nothing for me to do there.

I mean I am only stating facts. The entire "bottomlessly deeper" stuff is pretty vague overall and doesn't equate to a gap as big as 1-A and 10-B

You are missing that this is still the canvas for Mercurius to keep making the world as he likes, not the challangers who will never reach it, and thus still applies to the statements of them being inside the painting.

Sounds really headcanon-y. It's pretty explict that no matter what interpretation is taken the singularity is not inside any painting. Whether it's a canvas in itself, or whether it's a hole in the canvas. It's always something ontologically superior to things inside the painting.

It isn't, it is pretty easy to understand yet for some reason you keep searching for explanations that aren't the one proposed that makes the most sense with the evidence posted.

It's quite hard to understand explanations that contradict themselves. Must apologize for that.

It completly makes sense, thats the whole reason for fighting and killing the other gods.

In that sense, it makes more sense that the singularity just loses it's size when the throne god isn't powering it up.

As we saw with Yato, who keept drilling and falling yet never reaching the throne, its obvious that they will continue endlessly without ever reaching the throne.

Then it's possible each step require exponentially more time to drill or something. As I said the possibilities are many.

you are blind bro

Please show me this "Difference at least as big as the gap between 1-A and 10-B" cause it appears I am too blind to see it.

I have a picture here, we exist in the same "temporal level", that doesn't mean the picture can ever do anything to me as it is basically fiction to me. I still fail to see how it is hyperbolic.

The story told in a "picture" will exist in it's entirety for us at every moment of our time. It's past, present and future are equally accessible to us at any time. The comparison was between a Hadou God and a human. And it's proven that Hadou Gods exist temporally superior to the multiverse.

That doesnt change a thing tho, it will ever be above it all.

It will be above by "rising", so it's tier will vary. It won't be static.

because it is the same exact thing, everything in the canvas is nothing but a picture for them, it seems pretty clear cut to me.

There is a stark difference between the story told on the paper and the paper itself. The story is ontologically inferior to us while the paper(canvas) itself exists on the same level of existence as we do.

No again the only reason the gods can't just steamroll a singularity is cuz the godhead is there to even prevent them to be challenged like...at all. The gudous can get in no problem and even mibu can just slash the throne (again its simply because its his law to be a living blade anyway) with the fact how the throne is only used to make sure a god doesn't crush creation from their mass alone.

How is it vague when its pretty clear cut about how the singularity is. Literally the singularity is infinite and the other fact is that it birthed all the things within the lowest part which is the multiverse (its in ravy's blog btw).

Because the argument that singularity expansions are "transcendent" relies on the fact that they cannot go through it explictly because of it's size. But we know they, as you said, can steamroll through it without the throne god backing it in any form. Things just don't really add up.

And singularity is still part of creation and is used by the gods as some gateway against the challenger. The challenger only drills endlessly as the singularity won't be bypass by a weaker god. Same value or higher will just blitz to the bottom like with Hajun as he crushed all 4 gods (Ren was so irrelevant he didn't check if he was dead). I also have to add Hajun even when his tumor was reincarnated (this is how we got rea route) fought against Marie, Rein, Merc and Ren in which all had the same taiji value. Yet Hajun managed to kill Marie, Rein and Ren while leaving Merc with practicallly 1 hp. So this is another case in where even with same Taiji values it won't even be an eternal stalemate at all. When one simply falls into a singularity they must have the same value in order to even reach the godhead as I believe i said many times already. Rein and Ren kept falling and Merc was saying they will just keep going without end goes in line with this.

Ok. Let's make this clear. As I said them not being able to cross it seems to involve the presence of the godhead as a major factor, if not THE factor. This invalidates the argument that the expansions independent of Godhead's backup are transcendent. The base depth may or may not be infinite, but you still cannot use this reasoning to prove it's going higher into infinities at each value. And I am sorry I am just not seeing it. Every scan makes it clear the singularity is something beyond the painting itself, be it a collection of canvases or a hole. It's still something ontologically presence on the higher "narrative" perspective where the gods exist.

This describes the singularities depth and how the depth of the hole depends on the strength of the divinity of the throne in that generation.

I'm also pretty sure what I've posted like Yakou's dive is to put his existence into a "deeper" and more powerful existence to withstand it. So there is proof that the depth is also affected. Ravy's blog already gave details to how the depths of the singularity work

All that "deeper existence" stuff is really vague and considering the difference between the first two realms of the singularity was merely the difference between paper and a blank slate, doesn't mean much. There is nothing really wrong with the verse/scans themselves. It's just that the gap needed to get higher into 1-A is extremely vast, at least on scale with getting to 1-A itself in the first place.

The Singularity having infinite size isn't anything new since Paradise Lost standards.
The size of the creation itself varies through the era, it can be a universe or even a Multiverse.(Mercurius's case is pretty much obvious, since his creation was literally stated to contain infinite concepts).

I mean the "depth" between the paper and the throne appears to be different from the entirety of the singularity itself, but it doesn't really matter as I explained that the argument remains the same even if the base depth is infinite.

I mean considering "singularity" As not part of painting is vague tbh

I am sorry for treating something repeatedly represented as a canvas, or a hole in the canvas itself, as part of the painting. My lack of basic common is just unable to grasp that

 

[Delta333]

Agree with downgrade for now

 

[korea1234]

I agree to downgrade.

 

[Fixxed]

Hajun=h1a

Because he create 1a+ structure and transcending this, but not for other hadou god only 90x(if have 90 taikyou) transcending baseline 1a

 

[Tam0n3n]

Following and i agree with the downgrade

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

I'm neutral, but leaning towards disagree

 

[Paul_Frank]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the downgrade as well, the arguments for it aren't as strong really

 

[ZERO7772]

I didn't read DI in forever, but can someone remind me why the Singularity is bottomless by default now? IIRC it always relied heavily on the Throne God law and power

 

[ZERO7772]

Also this is so conversational
I don't think we will reach a conclusion without staff here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I 100% agree with the downgrades. All of the reasoning ever given for the singularity only proved 1-A to me, not High 1-A. That was always a hyperexaggeration brought forth by a misunderstanding of the Tiering System and overly generous interpretations. This downgrade is long overdue.

 

[ZERO7772]

Hajun=h1a

Because he create 1a+ structure and transcending this, but not for other hadou god only 90x(if have 90 taikyou) transcending baseline 1a

Hajun doesn't have infinite taikyou, this myth needs to die already.

Also he's not untouchable to other Hadou gods, since Yato can hold off his law and even pushing back once he surpass his old self
Merc also stated to have a chance at erasing Hajun from existence if he reach the throne

Yeah Hajun wasn't exactly focusing on Yato, and yes the chance Merc have at erasing Hjaun is very small however they can still defend themselves somewhat
This wiki seems to spread the idea that Hajun is untouchable being to other Hadou gods due to "taikyou"but this is simply false

 

[PsychoWarper]

Hajun doesn't have infinite taikyou, this myth needs to die already

This is technically correct, its immeasurable.

 

[ZERO7772]

This is technically correct, its immeasurable.

immeasurable because it's constantly raising and changing, it doesn't means "unimaginable amount"

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Nothing really contradicts how the singularity works. Unless u are telling me the singularity > the throne which is ludicurious then this gets wacked as the throne isn't beyond this painting the gods can do. Literally there is no chance to get to the throne if one has to overpower the god as no one is able to challenge them. As in you won't ever have a chance in the first place.

Sleepy already pointed how the throne kinda works and using merc shennenigans doesn't disprove on how the cosmology works.

Deeper existence isn't vague because how Yakou can change the hierarchy of his soul so there is no vagueness to that.

Singularity is part of the painting and it all being part of the throne god's territory. Again this argument hinges that singularity > the throne when its not because the throne is at the "bottom" being above even that. I don't know why no one is reading rav's blog there are explainations to how this works. The first instance of never ending fall is already in DI in marie route for those who read the VN would know exists. "The depth of the Singularity varies in accordance with the ruling deity’s law strength (Taikyoku/Taiji). As such, Singularities generated by a God with “higher” quality would be immeasurably “deeper” than those of lower quality, and therefore will not be “drilled” or “crossed” without adequate strength - " as quoted here

singularity is may or may not be infinite

Dude we got the blog and mentions how it is in size and such.

Hajun has immesurable taiji that keeps rising. 最高値を超えて検証不可能。最強最悪の存在。Beyond the highest and unverifiable.

 

[ZERO7772]

最高値を超えて検証不可能。最強最悪の存在

Unless I am seeing stuff it just says that it impossible to measure his strength, and that the strongest and most evil god
Still nowhere it stated that he has infinite count

Also Panteon ***** on the idea of Hajun being the strongest but I digress for now

 

[PsychoWarper]

Also he's not untouchable to other Hadou gods, since Yato can hold off his law and even pushing back once he surpass his old self
Merc also stated to have a chance at erasing Hajun from existence if he reach the throne

Yeah Hajun wasn't exactly focusing on Yato, and yes the chance Merc have at erasing Hjaun is very small however they can still defend themselves somewhat
This wiki seems to spread the idea that Hajun is untouchable being to other Hadou gods due to "taikyou"but this is simply false.

Hajun was distracted trying to yeet the souls clinging to him and gave his boons to Yakou to deal with Yato as he thought trash should deal with trash (Iirc he referred to the boons he gave Yakou as literally giving him his shit or something like that).

As for the Merc thing his small chance was that after he became the Throne God was resettinn and erasing Hajun prior to his rise to godhood, nothing as ever given that even TG Merc could beat Hajun at full power

immeasurable because it's constantly raising and changing, it doesn't means "unimaginable amount"

I mean it’s literally listed as “Not Countable” or something like that iirc, its to high for the Taiji system to rate, its not immeasurable simply due to its ever rising nature.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Unless I am seeing stuff it just says that it impossible to measure his strength
Still nowhere it stated that has infinite count

Also Panteon ***** on the idea of Hajun being the strongest but I digress for now

Pantheon hasnt come out so its irrelevant, also its literally implied from Pantheon that Hajun would be able to rise to the Narakas realm and potentially best them.

 

[ZERO7772]

Hajun was distracted trying to yeet the souls clinging to him and gave his boons to Yakou to deal with Yato as he thought trash should deal with trash.

Your point being? It still typical OP character losses because they are brain-dead and arrogant as hell, a god doesn't need not think of you as trash to crush you under the weight.

As for the Merc thing his small chance was that after he became the Throne God was resettinn and erasing Hajun prior to his rise to godhood, nothing as ever given that even TG Merc could beat Hajun at full power

It's my fault for not expanding more on statement, but yeah I didn't mean Merc would nuke
just that he would erase his possibility, which is still something since Higher gods are not supposed to be affected by the lower gods law

 

[ZERO7772]

Pantheon hasnt come out so its irrelevant, also its literally implied from Pantheon that Hajun would be able to rise to the Narakas realm and potentially best them.

BS.
It's stated that he can observe them but can barely scratch their surface
Bring me the exact scan where the narrative says that Hajun would beat them all and reach them for sure.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Your point being? It still typical OP character losses because they are brain-dead and arrogant as hell, a god doesn't need not think of you as trash to crush you under the weight.

The Throne literally exists to stop the Throne god from crushing all of creation under their weight, also Yato didnt stop it he slowed it iirc. It was still always going to happen Yato just slowed when it would happen.

It's my fault for not expanding more on statement, but yeah I didn't mean Merc would nuke
just that he would erase his possibility, which is still something since Higher gods are not supposed to be affected by the lower gods law

The whole point of it was that Merc would be doing that prior to Hajun becoming a god therefore before he was stronger.

And before people cry about Acausality Mercs stuff is weird as hell and just seems to work on people it shouldnt, the Gods have several clear examples and statements of Acausality its just Merc can ignore it cause hes Merc.

 

[PsychoWarper]

BS.
It's stated that he can observe them but can barely scratch their surface
Bring me the exact scan where the narrative says that Hajun would beat them all and reach them for sure.

I literally said implyed it wasn’t expletly stated but hey I could be wrong its been a long ass time since I saw that stuff so I could be misremembering, also wasnt Hajun one of the Gods that couldnt be properly replicated so wasnt at 100%? Or was that something else.

Also why is the Naraka being above Hajun relevant? That would just mean they’d rank above him. Hell they could be above the Taiji system itself, thats the problem is we dont really know and likely never will since it was scrapped.

 

[ZERO7772]

The Throne literally exists to stop the Throne god from crushing all of creation under their weight, also Yato didnt stop it he slowed it iirc. It was still always going to happen Yato just slowed when it would happen.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, the weight of Hajun law would nuke the universe by exiting but not Yato
My whole point is that "Hajun being like a god compared to Yato" is more of a hyperbole and not literal there before it's moot point to try and says Hajun infinity transcend Yato, when Yato even while weaked can slow down his law spread rate and push back after he regain his power

And before people cry about Acausality Mercs stuff is weird as hell and just seems to work on people it shouldnt, the Gods have several clear examples and statements of Acausality its just Merc can ignore it cause hes Merc.

You can cry about it all you want, fact is Hajun "someone with way more taikyou count" is still affected by Merc's law on Acausality level proofs that the taikyou isn't as absolute as this wiki make it out to be.

I can use other events such as Muzan injuring Hajun in a direct clash or Ren stopping their attack but since the usual "Panteon isn't out" excuse will come I won't bother. My point is that the whole taikyou system doesn't even seems to be within the author intent anymore, yet the wiki use it anyway because it serves their claims