SHINZA 1-A THREAD (PART ONE)

[Mugen-Kokutosho-Jigoku]

Wasn't it Eleonore who hyped up herself and the three commanders to be up to Aztiluth rank in Rea route after Reinhard was completed?

If you mean the scene where she and the other two Battalion Commanders fight against Ren near the end of the Route, she says that they are close to Atziluth, not at Atziluth level (and even then, they cannot become Gods due to not having the potential to do so).

The difference in impact does not matter at all to my original argument.

It does since you're arguing a character to be comparable to the Tenmas of Edo and literally one of the weakest ones can do this by simply appearing on the scene, without even activating his Taikyoku.

Him being weak in that state, having the lower half of body gone, does not really negate that he's clearly not powerless anymore when he can fend off the Eastern Expedition team barring Yakou who does have Taikyoku and Ryumei if does her suicide attack.

Powerless within a framework that we defined earlier, not in general...also, what you said just confirms my earlier point of him being around Tier 5/6 according to Masada's ranking.

Well thank you for reminding me, I just opened up the game and found the quote I was looking for. And nothing says the Yatsukahagi with their Taikyoku inactivated are the ones in tier 6.

I mean, when Akuro and Morei activate their Taikyokus they are blatantly stated to be able to be harmed only by Gods so yeah, i don't think the ones with their Taikyokus activated are the ones who should be ranked as Tier 6s.

In fact, the entire quote about the R > F difference with Akuro happens before Akuro and Morei activate their Taikyoku in Fuwa-no-Seki.

Guess what? It was because of something called Mugen Kannazuki. Now, i wonder, why was Awaumi be able to be harmed while any attack the Eastern Expedition threw at Akuro (who didn't even have his own Taikyoku activated, as you said) resulted in not even giving him a scratch?

Yakou explicitly does have Taikyoku at that point

Ok.

so this does not mean much.

Sorry, i don't understand the reasoning behind this point.

This is also disingenuous because Reinhard's army of foot solders can tear apart Ren's law in their fight in Dies Irae.

Maybe because they were standing on equal footing and Reinhard's Atziluth makes it so that his legion becomes as powerful as him?

Not to mention he does send out his entire army to fight Hajun no matter how futile it is in the flashback of Hajun vs the guardians of Twilight.

Which doesn't have any relevance to the topic we're discussing right now.

My point is not about gudou gods or how they cannot be born due to the condition of the world or whatever. This stuff is entirely irrelevant.

How is this irrelevant when you're arguing a character to be one?

My point, is that Bahlavan is restricted from ever becoming a gudou god and thus is restricted from ever having divine power.

Which is related to what you mentioned in your earlier point...

A mortal character who has no Taikyoku can affect a being who does possess Taikyoku.

Can you provide evidence that supports the thesis under which Nadare possesses Tenchi Kaibyaku (in other words Big Bang, as translated in the english version)?

Who wins or not, who is a god or not, none of these are my arguments. It's simply that a character with no Taikyoku was able to affect another character that does have Taikyoku.

(Same thing i wrote above)

 

[Mugen-Kokutosho-Jigoku]

Wasn't it Eleonore who hyped up herself and the three commanders to be up to Aztiluth rank in Rea route after Reinhard was completed?

Sorry for making another response but (dunno how) i didn't see the link you put. Anyway, the scan you linked doesn't say anything about the Battalion Commanders reaching Atziluth degree.

 

[PrinceofPein]

As far the tenmas go, they have to activate their taikyoku and in which case they cannot be harm by anything that is not taikyoku.
As far as Nadare goes, she was never said to have a taikyoku and never used one. So again please stop the pointless arguments we are already on page 2, let the staffs read this and evaluate it.

 

[Tarang123]

They have Taikyoku due to Reinhard's blessing, not that they themselves own any Taikyoku by their own power. They are Aztiluth level due to Reinhard's blessing, the scan I sent said so.

they do NOT have taikyoku and it's never stated that they do. They are boosted through Reinhard's powers and they expand his own taikyoku, but they themselves don't have any. The only characters that do have their own taikyoku are the Yatsukahagi and like a few other randos

Let's put it this way, do you see Tenma Tokoyo in tier 6, without Taikyoku activated, being able to defeat someone like Machina in tier 5?

Everyone and you didn't mention those who are explicitly called pseudo gods. Really helpful. This would work way faster if you just mention these psuedo gods by name. Also, Nadare is a psuedo gudou god, she said so herself, what do you mean overwrite someone with her law? That's not what gudou does. Also, nobody in Avesta is a pseudo god besides Nadare. You have Hadou and Gugou god candidates but they themselves are not pseudo gods. In fact, the entry of psuedo gudou god was only revealed after Nadare revealed herself to be one in her fight with Magsarion.

Doesn't Nadare outright claim that she doesn't have the same abilities? It's also made a distinction between someone like Nadare and someone like Khvarenah or Kaikhosru, so this argument still doesn't really work.

Ren was getting his ass kicked until he became Aztiluth rank after reconnecting with Marie midfight and then he low-diffed them. Even in that state, he could still lose to Machina without the intervention from Rusulka.

That, in it of itself, is because of their strange connection, with Machina getting a boost.


I think instead of responding to everyone, you should just make a concise comment with all your claims against the 1A ratings which can be responded to properly.

 

[Legacy30]

Why does everyone keep saying Awaumi doesn't have Time Armor granted to him by Yato when this scan says he does? Even if it's in a weakened state due to being at the edge of Yato's territory, it still exists and applies to Awaumi. It did not vanish for some inexplicable reason. By this point, you should be arguing with Masada's words, not mine as to whether Awaumi has the Time Armor blessing or not. And no matter what the EE does, Awaumi will not go down unless Yakou, who has Taikyoku, takes action or Ryumei connects to the Shura Mandala to take out Awaumi.

Q: The Yatsukahagi become stronger due to Yatou's Legion Reincarnation, yet the Umibozu (The Priest and the children) were easily taken down compared to the others. Why is that?

A: First things first, as anyone who has read Dies knows, they weren't that close to Yatou to begin with. Second, Awaumi was at the very ends of Yatou's domain. To put it short and direct, the Umibozu had more freedom than the other Tenma's so they were able to get the frontlines. But as a result, the blessing of Muzan Kannazaki is weakened and that was how he was taken down. Furthermore, Yakou's entire existence is an anomaly. Were he, who has reached Taikyoku as a result of being Hajun's stand-in not been there, the Umibozu would have not been stopped unless Ryuumei used the self-destruct technique she used in Tougairyuu. And without Ryuumei, they would have all fallen at Fuwa-no-Seki.

I should mention that legion enforcement and Yato's Time Armor are separate things. We have Kasumi in KKK existing as a spirit in Edo protected by Yato's Time Armor, but she is not a combatant.

Sorry for making another response but (dunno how) i didn't see the link you put. Anyway, the scan you linked doesn't say anything about the Battalion Commanders reaching Atziluth degree.

"In a way, the two were on the Aztiluth Degree."
The two in question is Ren and Eleonore as they are confronting each other in that specific moment in the fight. By this point it should be mentioned that Aztiluth = Taikyoku = Big Bang. These terms are the same thing, so when one is said to be on the Aztiluth degree it means they have divine power, personally owning it or gifted to them by a god through a blessing, this distinction is irrelevant. They have divine power regardless.

The crux of my argument is that non 1-A beings(who don't have any divine powers) can affect supposed 1-A beings(those who do have divine powers) and this is a clear antifeat to divine powers(Taikyoku, Aztiluth, whatever you want to call it, they're all the same) being 1-A tier.

If that doesn't satisfy you, I can mention endgame Magsarion being able to destroy Mitra who is a bonafide Hadou God before Magsarion completely finishes her off by becoming a Hadou God himself. And by that point, it's on the supporters to provide scans and evidence that Magsarion has divine power as a Madou or that the existence of a Madou God is an actual thing that exists in the setting.

 

[Tarang123]

"In a way, the two were on the Aztiluth Degree."
The two in question is Ren and Eleonore as they are confronting each other in that specific moment in the fight. By this point it should be mentioned that Aztiluth = Taikyoku = Big Bang. These terms are the same thing, so when one is said to be on the Aztiluth degree it means they have divine power, personally owning it or gifted to them by a god through a blessing, this distinction is irrelevant. They have divine power regardless.

The raws say they were close to the atziluth degree, not that they're on that degree.

The crux of my argument is that non 1-A beings(who don't have any divine powers) can affect supposed 1-A beings(those who do have divine powers) and this is a clear antifeat to divine powers(Taikyoku, Aztiluth, whatever you want to call it, they're all the same) being 1-A tier.

But this is simply untrue and it's insanely consistent that characters imply can't do that.

Hell, let's use Awaumi. Had Madara not oneshotted him, Ryuumei would have basically died tapping into Reinhard's mandala. There's literally no way for someone who has any form of taikyoku to be affected or beaten by someone without it

 

[Legacy30]

The raws say they were close to the atziluth degree, not that they're on that degree.

Well thank you for clearing that up. I bemoan the liberties the official translation of Dies Irae takes.

But this is simply untrue and it's insanely consistent that characters imply can't do that.

Hell, let's use Awaumi. Had Madara not oneshotted him, Ryuumei would have basically died tapping into Reinhard's mandala. There's literally no way for someone who has any form of taikyoku to be affected or beaten by someone without it

Soujirou: Allow me to introduce myself.
You still haven't addressed Soujirou in the fight being able to cut off Awaumi's arms when he's under the weakened protection of Time Armor in Yato's territory.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If that doesn't satisfy you, I can mention endgame Magsarion being able to destroy Mitra who is a bonafide Hadou God before Magsarion completely finishes her off by becoming a Hadou God himself. And by that point, it's on the supporters to provide scans and evidence that Magsarion has divine power as a Madou or that the existence of a Madou God is an actual thing that exists in the setting.

This shows you have not actually read the work and in which case I would stop replying to any of your arguments.

And I will like to make this a staff thread now.
Enough arguments that are irrelevant or pointless to the arguments in the blog.

 

[Mugen-Kokutosho-Jigoku]

ln a way, the two were on the Aztiluth Degree."
The two in question is Ren and Eleonore as they are confronting each other in that specific moment in the fight. By this point it should be mentioned that Aztiluth = Taikyoku = Big Bang. These terms are the same thing, so when one is said to be on the Aztiluth degree it means they have divine power, personally owning it or gifted to them by a god through a blessing, this distinction is irrelevant. They have divine power regardless.

Not what the raw says

If that doesn't satisfy you, I can mention endgame Magsarion being able to destroy Mitra who is a bonafide Hadou God before Magsarion completely finishes her off by becoming a Hadou God himself. And by that point, it's on the supporters to provide scans and evidence that Magsarion has divine power as a Madou or that the existence of a Madou God is an actual thing that exists in the setting.

You mean the same Magsarion who killed Varhram who is stated to be the 'highest rare' of Tier 7 by Masada Takashi himself, with rarity = strength/power in said ranking? That Magsarion? He killed someone far beyond the Gods, so i don't see any problem in him being able to overpower Shinga (since he's also stated to have no problems in terms of power against her before the fight even begins + Shinga herself says that he reminds her of Sakra, an individual who "killed" Mitra many times during Age of Zero)

 

[Tarang123]

You still haven't addressed Soujirou in the fight being able to cut off Awaumi's arms when he's under the weakened protection of Time Armor in Yato's territory.

Can you send the scans for this?

If that doesn't satisfy you, I can mention endgame Magsarion being able to destroy Mitra who is a bonafide Hadou God before Magsarion completely finishes her off by becoming a Hadou God himself. And by that point, it's on the supporters to provide scans and evidence that Magsarion has divine power as a Madou or that the existence of a Madou God is an actual thing that exists in the setting.

Magsarion as a Madou was stronger than Muzan so this is a moot argument

 

[Legacy30]

You mean the same Magsarion who killed Varhram who is stated to be the 'highest rare' of Tier 7 by Masada Takashi himself, with rarity = strength/power in said ranking? That Magsarion? He killed someone far beyond the Gods, so i don't see any problem in him being able to overpower Shinga (since he's also stated to have no problems in terms of power against her before the fight even begins + Shinga herself says that he reminds her of Sakra, an individual who "killed" Mitra many times during Age of Zero)

Okay, that still doesn't imply Magsarion has divine powers as a Madou or that a Madou God exists. Was this Sakra killing Mitra when she was a Hadou God or not? In the case of Varhram, it's never been mentioned that he has divine powers either or that he's a god of sorts. Maybe you can argue that he's that strong because of the Zero element inside him, but I like to point out that even in the story proper, he gets cut in half by a radically much weaker character called Munsarāt, Varhram even said he lost to him, even though he still has the Zero element inside him at that stage of the story in flashbacks. Hell, he always has the Zero element until Magsarion killed the thing in him. To me, that's a matter of compatibility where Zero allows Varhram to fight on the level of gods yet still be affected by non-gods regardless. Even Masada points out that Zero is a compatibility issue with the entire verse. Varhram is just a really weird case that goes against the established rules of the verse much like Zero. Which is intentional I suppose.

Can you send the scans for this?

　瞬間――

　波涛を粉砕する大音響と共に、眼前まで迫っていた異形の手が横殴りに弾かれた。

　それが誰の攻撃によるものなのかは、もはや疑う余地もない。

「言ってくれるじゃねえか、お姫さんよォ」

　刑士郎――敵の殲滅を優先して、ただ闇雲に突っ込んでいたこいつが旗艦を守るために戻ってきた。

　いや、正確には咲耶を守るためなんだろうが、結果的には同じことだ。ここに妹がいる限り、あいつは何に替えてもこの艦を死守するだろう。

「紫織さんの一撃で奴らを止める。その瞬間の減圧を見極めて、僕が止めを刺せと」

『そういうことだ』

　あれだけ巨大な化け物の群れ、一撃で殺しきれるとは思えない。　ゆえに狙うのは絶妙の間を置いた二連撃。

　なるほど確かに、その見極めは宗次郎が適任だろう。こいつの嗅覚はそうした瞬間を見逃さない。

　引き絞られていた二本の矢が、いま放たれる。

　気脈を司る経絡を制御し、膨大な気を循環させながら圧縮させ、もはや物質化するほどの闘気が拳に集まる。

　跳躍と共に弾けた余剰の生命力は周囲一帯に伝播して、艦隊全員の疲労を瞬時に拭い去るほど、紫織が練り上げた気の総量は夥しいものだった。

　甲板から宙に舞い、標的目掛けて振り降ろされる渾身の一撃。

　こいつはこいつでとんでもなく、それを同時に二十も放つという絶技を繰り出す。

　まともに食らえば、たとえどんな奴でも無事では絶対いられまい。

「おおおおおおおぉぉぉォォッ――――」

　噴き上がる生気の圧が爆発し、その残光が翼のごとく見えた瞬間。

「玖錠降神流―――陀羅尼孔雀王ォォォッッ！」

　まるで天から落ちた災害であるかのごとく、総計二十発に及ぶ鉄槌が総ての妖花を撃ち抜いていた。

　毒を浄化し、七難摧滅を成す破魔孔雀――その名に相応しい過剰なまでの生命圧を纏った拳は、人外の異妖に特効的な痛打を浴びせる。

　今それを前に、奴らの抵抗力は間違いなく零となり―――

　必殺と化す刹那の空隙を、宗次郎の勘は逃さない。

　放たれた斬気は先の神楽で見せた技と同じものだが、威力は数段違っていた。この一点だけを狙い澄まして溜め抜いていた刃風は、一切の減速を見せず波を切り裂き宙を走り、獲物の喉笛に喰らいつく。

　行為の残虐性とは裏腹に冴え凍るような静の剣気は、完全に宗次郎独特のものだろう。

　殺害行為に毛先ほどの躊躇も見せず、何の嫌悪も愉悦も抱かないまま機械のように殺しきれる異形の感性――たとえ誰でも、こいつほど指を鳴らすような気軽さで殺しに踏み切ることは出来ない。

　もはや異能に属する域の殺意は、それだけに猟犬を上回る殺しの嗅覚を持っている。狙い過たず会心の瞬間を捉えた斬気は、そのまま走り抜けて妖花の頭を牡丹のように切り落としていた。

05:13

Magsarion as a Madou was stronger than Muzan so this is a moot argument

I'm honestly not entirely sure about Magsarion being necessarily stronger than Muzan, think you can provide scans? But I digress. It's still a fact that Magsarion can harm Mitra when he doesn't have any mentioned divine powers as a Madou.

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Deagonx @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000 @SamanPatou @Duedate8898 @FinePoint So... I was asked to tag mods.

 

[Tarang123]

I'm honestly not entirely sure about Magsarion being necessarily stronger than Muzan, think you can provide scans? But I digress. It's still a fact that Magsarion can harm Mitra when he doesn't have any mentioned divine powers as a Madou.

Nah I'm pretty sure it's confirmed. Muzan mainly just has the advantage of range.

Magsarion being able to harm Mitra isn't at all an anti feat if he's literally on the same tier as the gods. This is an insanely poor attempt at an argument

 

[PrinceofPein]

"The emanation of Hadou, rewriting the universe, a new world crafted by replacing God. Magsarion grasped this mechanism through his battle with the divine Khvarenah.
He understood that the Avesta governing the thoughts of Ashavan and Drujvants was not mere instinct, but a living being reigning at the top of the Divine Throne, coloring all creation with its own law.
It was a paradigm shift, a realization that if it was alive, he could kill it, propelled Magsarion to a higher realm.
But the Meifou-Madou was not yet complete.
The mystery of Varhran, the one he most wanted to solve, remained untouched." (Avesta Volume 4).

That's when he started ascending btw, so he became immutable and that's what is called madou, neither hadou or gudou, but a mixture of the 2 an abomination that wants to erase everything.
Since you do not know what madou is, I will like to think you have not read it. So please stop cluttering the threads with irrelevant arguments to the blog and if you disagree with anything in the blog, make a proper argument.

@Deagonx @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000 @SamanPatou @Duedate8898 @FinePoint So... I was asked to tag mods.

I will like for this to be made a staff thread.

 

[Antvasima]

I moved this to our staff-only forum.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I agree on the 1-A singularity and as for 1-A throne well I don’t know about that, since whenever or not there is an actual statement that it part of the singularity or transcends all levels of the singularity

the connection between Emanation, Singularity and the Throne

It might be a mistranslation so be please feel free to correct it if it’s wrong

 

[Tarang123]

I agree on the 1-A singularity and as for 1-A throne well I don’t know about that, since whenever or not there is an actual statement that it part of the singularity or transcends all levels of the singularity

the connection between Emanation, Singularity and the Throne

It might be a mistranslation so be please feel free to correct it if it’s wrong

Right now it's focusing solely on 1A. If you want to argue for higher, we can do that after this is secured

 

[Xipheria]

Being boosted doesn’t necessarily mean being granted Taikyoku

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Just a hypothesis:

Although Longinus Dreizenn Orden and yatsukahagi are “pseudo-gods” in their respective heaven (eras), but the differences is that LDO becomes “pseudo-gods” due to Reinhard’s law, and them having no Taikyoku is due to the fact is that the power they were granted is purely Reinhard’s power, not theirs, so it makes sense that each of them have no kamunagara and Taikyoku .

The reason why the Yatsukahagi have Taikyoku and their own respective Kanumagara is because Tenma Yato shared his Taikyoku to his legion making his originally 100 Taikyoku to 70 Taikyoku and only when Tenma Tokoyo invoked her Taikyoku and sacrificed all the Yatsukahagi to bring back Tenma Yato back to his full power.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

@Humanitus_Primevilus888 @Tarang123 @Xipheria, from now on you guys have to take permission from admins for further interactions with this thread as of now this became a staff only thread.

If you have permission to comment then ignore this msg otherwise follow the rules.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

@Humanitus_Primevilus888 @Tarang123 @Xipheria, from now on you guys have to take permission from admins for further interactions with this thread as of now this became a staff only thread.

If you have permission to comment then ignore this msg otherwise follow the rules.

Noted.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Save me...

Ok...now what to start with...

Awaumi is a strange case. Sure he has time armor and all but its was weakened yes. Though did Mibu even harm the man himself? Cuz he just cut the hands and it was even said that it's the boundary and all. But the main body of Awaumi is a different story so there's that...

Nadare was a pseudo god yes but she is a sensory and functions differently. After all by her own admission she isn't strong so her AP and dura isn't high and she likely won't have the durability or strength of a gudou god but had the hax and immortality of one thx to Mithra and being her sensory. And seems ppl are confusing legions are legionnares are how tight they have to be with the god. Ren and Reinhard are prime examples of it and are the ones that utilize this legion in comparison to the others.

Oh yeah, as if pseudo gudou gods like Soujirou under Hajun's control show anything related to Hajun's law in his law of being the ultimate sword. Mind you, pseudo-god Soujirou under Hajun's control is explicitly stronger than actual Gudou God Soujirou. His profile in the game for pseudo god Soujirou does have Taikyoku. I repeat, it's up to you to prove pseudo gods don't have divine powers automatically due to their connection to their god.

Um where is the stats for it? Because all the stats for the taiji part is "?" by mid game and they fought the tenmas not at their full power (since Yato was still weakened).

Wasn't it Eleonore who hyped up herself and the three commanders to be up to Aztiluth rank in Rea route after Reinhard was completed?

In a way. Because of Reinhard's blessing. But again its kinda due to Reinhard's law and how it works with his legion.

Well thank you for reminding me, I just opened up the game and found the quote I was looking for. And nothing says the Yatsukahagi with their Taikyoku inactivated are the ones in tier 6. In fact, the entire quote about the R > F difference with Akuro happens before Akuro and Morei activate their Taikyoku in Fuwa-no-Seki.

Where is it then? And the tiers are just for physicals. Otherwise why would ppl like Know be higher than spinne when the blud only has cybernetics and no real hax besides that one blade thing. Hell the R>F quote akuro only activated Kai's Briah. Not Taiji which is VERY different. They activated it LATER.

Ren was getting his ass kicked until he became Aztiluth rank after reconnecting with Marie midfight and then he low-diffed them. Even in that state, he could still lose to Machina without the intervention from Rusulka.

I mean...there is also the fact Ren is connected to Machina so it's a very special case too...

The two in question is Ren and Eleonore as they are confronting each other in that specific moment in the fight. By this point it should be mentioned that Aztiluth = Taikyoku = Big Bang. These terms are the same thing, so when one is said to be on the Aztiluth degree it means they have divine power, personally owning it or gifted to them by a god through a blessing, this distinction is irrelevant. They have divine power regardless.

The crux of my argument is that non 1-A beings(who don't have any divine powers) can affect supposed 1-A beings(those who do have divine powers) and this is a clear antifeat to divine powers(Taikyoku, Aztiluth, whatever you want to call it, they're all the same) being 1-A tier.

If that doesn't satisfy you, I can mention endgame Magsarion being able to destroy Mitra who is a bonafide Hadou God before Magsarion completely finishes her off by becoming a Hadou God himself. And by that point, it's on the supporters to provide scans and evidence that Magsarion has divine power as a Madou or that the existence of a Madou God is an actual thing that exists in the setting.

This just means eleonore was blessed by reinhard and Ren sucking juice from the throne which if he let it all out would have gone atziluth anyway. You know it is like via hax thing is possible?

Mags was more powerful. He was dominating in a fight vs Mithra but had compatibility issues as Madou needs 1 v 1 but he was killing Mithra very quickly. Issue was time as Mags knew if he was too long, Mithra can birth a Hadou god that fulfills her requirement and beat them both which is a problem cuz that means Mithra won. He had to slightly dampen his killing intent to everyone hence why he's weaker as the Hadou Muzan.

Okay, that still doesn't imply Magsarion has divine powers as a Madou or that a Madou God exists. Was this Sakra killing Mitra when she was a Hadou God or not? In the case of Varhram, it's never been mentioned that he has divine powers either or that he's a god of sorts. Maybe you can argue that he's that strong because of the Zero element inside him, but I like to point out that even in the story proper, he gets cut in half by a radically much weaker character called Munsarāt, Varhram even said he lost to him, even though he still has the Zero element inside him at that stage of the story in flashbacks. Hell, he always has the Zero element until Magsarion killed the thing in him. To me, that's a matter of compatibility where Zero allows Varhram to fight on the level of gods yet still be affected by non-gods regardless. Even Masada points out that Zero is a compatibility issue with the entire verse. Varhram is just a really weird case that goes against the established rules of the verse much like Zero. Which is intentional I suppose.

Sakra...killing Hadou Mithra? Bruh that's when Mithra was still human ffs. Varhram just had a different perspective for a time. Munsarat's ability allowed him to understand 0 and was able to learn on converting to his side.

Now the other problem is....the translations....

Akuro's thing is ok? I guess

The Avesta black and white...plz credit the translator....it's a copy paste...

Singularity translation is wack and some lines don't even exist like Yakou's thing at the end just cuts as there is more to it or how it doesn't say Gudou God's existence is uncertain but just they can exist with the Godhead but Hadous can't. Or it's not a man-made "nothingness" but that it "embodies the "nothingness" that humans conceive of"

Others like Yakou's talk on laws not being taiji is wonky with grammar issues.

My own Law which lets me gain total control of all things in Creation, my own Law that disconnects me from all things in Creation is Taikyoku.
While 己 can mean I, in this context, Yakou is just talking about the difference between Hadou and Gudou. Hadou conquers all, Gudou goes outside of said creation.

Just strange ways like in this has もしくは translated as Additionally when it means Otherwise/Or

Also things like this:

太極とは何ぞやと言われれば、端的に法則と言うしかない。現実に刃物は切るという法則を帯びているし、火は燃やすという法則がある。水中の法則ならば肺呼吸ができないというものであろうし、そうした細々としたものは単なる物理だ。重要なのは規模、密度。その法を構成する単位が宇宙という規格であり、ゆえにそれのみをもって独立した世界となり得るものを太極と定義する。己が法則で森羅万象を制圧する太極と、己が法則のみ森羅万象から外れるという太極である。

Are disjointed as while they are from the same scene, not all the sentences lead to one another. 太極とは何ぞやと言われれば、端的に法則と言うしかない。doesn't lead to the next sentence until a bit later. Or how
己が法則で森羅万象を制圧する太極と、己が法則のみ森羅万象から外れるという太極である。 isn't immediately after the previous sentence in the scene (as the last one talks about what Hadous and Gudous too.)

A bit minor but is disjointed overall as a result of this and probably should just be another paragraph while the Akuro and Mibu one is at least connected completely without anything skipped in that scene...

Side note on that, "You can either dominate all of creation with your Laws or everything in creation can be an archetype of yourself."

It just says you can dominate all of creation with you law (not laws) or exist outside of it on your own.

And the other issue it's not consistent with your other translation of the same lines: My own Law which lets me gain total control of all things in Creation, my own Law that disconnects me from all things in Creation is Taikyoku."

So the blog has issues and needs more scans over smth like how a god's weight can destroy everything if not for the throne.

Oh man...is all I can say -_-

 

[Antvasima]

Redgrave seems to make good points here.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Save me...

Ok...now what to start with...

Awaumi is a strange case. Sure he has time armor and all but its was weakened yes. Though did Mibu even harm the man himself? Cuz he just cut the hands and it was even said that it's the boundary and all. But the main body of Awaumi is a different story so there's that...

Nadare was a pseudo god yes but she is a sensory and functions differently. After all by her own admission she isn't strong so her AP and dura isn't high and she likely won't have the durability or strength of a gudou god but had the hax and immortality of one thx to Mithra and being her sensory. And seems ppl are confusing legions are legionnares are how tight they have to be with the god. Ren and Reinhard are prime examples of it and are the ones that utilize this legion in comparison to the others.



Um where is the stats for it? Because all the stats for the taiji part is "?" by mid game and they fought the tenmas not at their full power (since Yato was still weakened).


In a way. Because of Reinhard's blessing. But again its kinda due to Reinhard's law and how it works with his legion.


Where is it then? And the tiers are just for physics. Otherwise why would ppl like Know be higher than spinne when the blud only has cybernetics and no real hax besides that one blade thing. Hell the R>F quote akuro only activated Kai's Briah . Not Taiji which is VERY different. They activated it LATER.


I mean...there is also the fact Ren is connected to Machina so it's a very special case too...


This just means eleonore was blessed by reinhard and Ren sucking juice from the throne which if he let it all out would have gone atziluth anyway. You know it is like via hax thing is possible?

Mags was more powerful. He was dominating in a fight vs Mithra but had compatibility issues as Madou needs 1 v 1 but he was killing Mithra very quickly. Issue was time as Mags knew if he was too long, Mithra can birth a Hadou god that fulfills her requirement and beat them both which is a problem cuz that means Mithra won. He had to slightly dampen his killing intent to everyone hence why he's weaker as the Hadou Muzan.

Sakra...killing Hadou Mithra? Bruh that's when Mithra was still human ffs. Varhram just had a different perspective for a time. Munsarat's ability allowed him to understand 0 and was able to learn on converting to his side.

Now the other problem is....the translations....

Is Akuro's thing okay? I guess

The Avesta black and white...plz credit the translator....it's a copy paste...

Singularity translation is wack and some lines don't even exist like Yakou's thing at the end just cuts as there is more to it or how it doesn't say Gudou God's existence is uncertain but just they can exist with the Godhead but Hadous can' t. Or it's not a man-made "nothingness" but that it "embodies the "nothingness" that humans conceive of"

Others like Yakou's talk on laws not being taiji is wonky with grammar issues.


Just strange ways like in this has or translated as Additionally when it means Otherwise/Or

Also things like this:

If you ask what Tai Chi is, you can only say it is a law. In reality, a blade has the law of cutting, and fire has the law of burning. The law of underwater would be that one cannot breathe with one's lungs, and such small details are simply physics. What is important is scale and density. The unit that constitutes this law is the standard called the universe, and therefore Tai Chi is defined as something that can become an independent world by itself. There is Tai Chi that controls all things in the universe with its own laws, and Tai Chi that is outside the universe only in its own laws.

Are disjointed as they are from the same scene, not all the sentences lead to one another. What is Taikyoku? In short, it can only be called a law.
There is a Taikyoku that controls all things in the universe with its own laws, and there is a Taikyoku that only its own laws are outside the universe. isn't immediately after the previous sentence in the scene (as the last one talks about what Hadous and Gudous too.)

A bit minor but is disjointed overall as a result of this and probably should just be another paragraph while the Akuro and Mibu one is at least connected completely without anything skipped in that scene...

Side note on that, "You can either dominate all of creation with your Laws or everything in creation can be an archetype of yourself."





So the blog has issues and needs more scans over smth like how a god's weight can destroy everything if not for the throne.

Oh man...is all I can say -_-

@chasekileen was the TL for us and he is good in Japanese as far as I know, but I will note down this and fix them.
So all in all, the blog just needs more scans and some TL needs to be added/removed. Thanks

 

[Coston]

Just saying the entire Canvas and Color is a figurative analogy, with a God's Law represents the "Color" aka the state of the universe, and the Canvas as the world itself.

There is no difference between Taiji Throne and Singularity either.

Singularity is an empty space of colorless (unfinished) law, and could become the seed for the new world or new God to emerge into existence. As shown in Dies Irae or Kajiri Kamui Kagura, Singularity can be "outside" or "inside" the Throne, but the law of the Throne does not reach there, being neutral space and such.

The multiverse or the Mortal World definitely has at most infinite parallel universes and multitime so definitely either a 4D or 5D structure.

これまで幾度か見せてきた玖錠紫織の怪能力は、すなわち可能性の拡大なのだと。

無限に存在する平行世界とでも呼ぶべきもの、そこには今の攻撃で死んだ紫織も存在すれば、躱して反撃に移れる紫織もいる。

The supernatural ability that Shiori had shown several times before was, in other words, the expansion of possibilities.

There was something known as the infinite series of parallel worlds, just as there was a Shiori who fell by his attack, so there was a Shiori who could dodge and counterattack him.

「しかし、彼はそれを可能にする者なのだ。多元時間、多元宇宙、あらゆる領域に手を伸ばしてその不条理を成立させる」

"Yet, he accomplished that. He managed to realize that absurdity by reaching across multiple timelines, multiple universes, and all sorts of territories."

As for the whole painting and real person, the difference as stated here, is described by dimensionality than ontological difference.

なのに無傷。まったく無傷。薄皮一枚切り裂けない。それは紫織の拳を受け止めたときと同様で、頑強さと言うより別位相の物理を目にしたかのようだった。

喩えるなら、絵の中でどれだけ猛火を描写しようと、それが現実の人間を燃やせるわけがないのと同じ。

立っている場所がそもそも違うという断絶感。

そして、絵に現実は害せなくても、現実が絵を破壊することは容易に出来る。

高次元から低次元への攻撃は、赤子の手を捻るよりも通しやすい。

Yet, he was uninjured, completely on top of that. Not even a thin layer of skin was cut through. It was the same when he blocked Shiori's fist, it was as though rather than toughness, we are witnessing the physics from another phase of reality.

If I have to express by analogy, regardless how fierce the fire can be depicted on a painting, that fire could never harm a real person.

In the first place, there was always a sense of disconnection from them, as though they have always been standing in a different place.

And, even if a painting cannot harm reality, the reality can easily destroy a painting.

An attack from a higher dimension to a lower dimension has an easier time to bypass than twisting a baby's hand.

VSB also needs to implement stricter standard for L1A or 1A, because R>F can be expressed via dimensionality as seen in many fictional settings, where higher-dimensional beings and worlds treat lower-dimensional beings and worlds as fictions or false or illusion.

If anyone wants to argue your setting has L1A or 1A structure or not, they have to go step-by-step to prove if their setting has infinite dimensions with hierarchical relationship or an equivalent of such structure instead of making leap of logic or resorting to NLF argument.

As for now, it is either L1C or 1C Shinza (Divine Throne or Singularity being 5D or 6D).

 

[PrinceofPein]

Just saying the entire Canvas and Color is a figurative analogy, with a God's Law represents the "Color" aka the state of the universe, and the Canvas as the world itself.

There is no difference between Taiji Throne and Singularity either.

Singularity is an empty space of colorless (unfinished) law, and could become the seed for the new world or new God to emerge into existence. As shown in Dies Irae or Kajiri Kamui Kagura, Singularity can be "outside" or "inside" the Throne, but the law of the Throne does not reach there, being neutral space and such.

The multiverse or the Mortal World definitely has at most infinite parallel universes and multitime so definitely either a 4D or 5D structure.





As for the whole painting and real person, the difference as stated here, is described by dimensionality than ontological difference.



VSB also needs to implement stricter standard for L1A or 1A, because R>F can be expressed via dimensionality as seen in many fictional settings, where higher-dimensional beings and worlds treat lower-dimensional beings and worlds as fictions or false or illusion.

If anyone wants to argue your setting has L1A or 1A structure or not, they have to go step-by-step to prove if their setting has infinite dimensions with hierarchical relationship or an equivalent of such structure instead of making leap of logic or resorting to NLF argument.

As for now, it is either L1C or 1C Shinza (Divine Throne or Singularity being 5D or 6D).

This is why this was made a staff thread, only knowledgeable member should be allowed to comment or staffs. Please get permission before posting and this should be deleted as this is argument from ignorance.
You said the world is a canvas that the God paint in their law. That's is a R>F difference and somehow you concluded it at low 1-C. Please read the new tiering system. R>F difference is now 1-A. And yes you can be called higher dimensional as a word as long as the difference is that of quality and not quantity, that's 1-A. I.e. if you view it as illusion or unreal no matter what you are called, that's 1-A.
Thank you, please get permission and do not argue without understanding the system properly

 

[Tarang123]

You said the world is a canvas that the God paint in their law. That's is a R>F difference and somehow you concluded it at low 1-C. Please read the new tiering system. R>F difference is now 1-A. And yes you can be called higher dimensional as a word as long as the difference is that of quality and not quantity, that's 1-A. I.e. if you view it as illusion or unreal no matter what you are called, that's 1-A.

In his defence, he did say he thinks the standards should be stricter, so there's that.

As for now, it is either L1C or 1C Shinza (Divine Throne or Singularity being 5D or 6D).

Alright so I was actually waiting for someone to bring this up, and this is a fairly classic argument, but my argument against it is that it's made abundantly clear throughout the series that there's a massive difference between everything in the picture and everything outside of it. How big the cosmology is doesn't exactly matter, when it's made pretty clear that whatever's part of the paint includes concepts like space, time, dimensions, distance, coordinates, etc. which are all completely disconnected from and immeasurably lower than the Gods' level of existence.

It wouldn't really matter how many dimensions or hierarchies are fitted inside the god's law as it would still be bound to it at the end of the day, and therefore the god would transcend it in its entirety.

Therefore, instead of being Low 1C or 1C, it would be 1A.

The example used there is that it's a different phase in physics, but this wouldn't really apply to the gods as they're above the concept in its entirety

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

This is why this was made a staff thread, only knowledgeable member should be allowed to comment or staffs. Please get permission before posting and this should be deleted as this is argument from ignorance.

I know this is a staff-only thread but I have to speak out.
He has played Dies and K3 in Japanese before, so yes, he IS worthy to be one of the knowledgeable members. Tell me, how many people have actually read K3, let alone playing both works in Japanese? Because all I see is a majority of you have either played only the Steam version of DI AA (which its translation being completely horrendous) and used fragmented scans that you can find on the internet without proper sorting or whatsover.
I believe Coston has the right to comment here because all the scans he provided were translated by himself, not using the pre-existing TL from various powerscaling sites with questionable quality.

 

[Tarang123]

I know this is a staff-only thread but I have to speak out.
He has played Dies and K3 in Japanese before, so yes, he IS worthy to be one of the knowledgeable members. Tell me, how many people have actually read K3, let alone playing both works in Japanese? Because all I see is a majority of you have either played only the Steam version of DI AA (which its translation being completely horrendous) and used fragmented scans that you can find on the internet without proper sorting or whatsover.
I believe Coston has the right to comment here because all the scans he provided were translated by himself, not using the pre-existing TL from various powerscaling sites with questionable quality.

I think the habit of just brushing aside people because we don't like their arguments is just kinda stupid in general. If someone has an objection or doubts they should be clearly and concisely addressed, not shoved under the rug hoping that nobody notices them

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I apologise if this statement of mine seem to be a bit outrageous for the current 1-A CRT, but It’s seems that I can’t ignore this, and I need your evaluations on this( p.s I got the permission from Antvasima Already):

In the past CRTs I keep seeing is that the singularity level reflects the Taikyoku level of the users like Mercury Taikyoku is 90 then the singularity have 90 levels. But from what I reading from these scans I think the singularity is inherently a 1-A+/Outerversal+ hierarchy no matter the Taikyoku levels:

Transcending infinite holes with no end

We can see in the Marie’s route, Ren and Reinhard Taikyoku is only At 80 while mercurius is 90 and yet Ren and Reinhard keep open/transcends endless holes of the singularity with no end to their doing rather than stopped at the 80th level of the singularity.

For a example; a Hadou God with 10 Taikyoku always transcends these infinite holes endless at the 11 Taikyoku God’s singularity and only transcends the singularity when reached 11 Taikyoku.


Conclusion: The Taikyoku level of the Hadou God sitting on the Throne affects the scale and strength of their personal Law (their ability to overwrite reality and impose their own existence) rather than the level of the singularity level, as the singularity represents the fixed metaphysical nature of the throne