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He regrets it in the first moment, however he states (later on) that "it's for the better" which implies that he didn't expect to have to leave it to the Eastern Expedition, therefore resulting in Yato indirectly confirming that he can't drill past that layer.
No because Yato doesnt want to emanate through all creation. If he reaches the throne it will be a world of stagnation. DI even elaborates Ren HATES this and refused to go beyond EFF in Rea's Route due to this very fact. It's basically a "Hell" for him. "It's for the better/best" doesn't imply he couldn't drill past it but he thinks its better he DIDN'T and left it to EE.
Yato was out of juice...? You do remember that Tokoyo blatantly states that once she activates her Taikyoku to make Yato awaken again, she compares it to an act of re-birth? It doesn't make sense for Yato to be out of juice when he awakens due to literally being at full power. Moreover, i think what you're referring to is Yato """holding back""" against Habaki which is a different thing and its not entirely true (Masada even explains it in the K3 VFB: he was just reducing the environmental damage to the minimum and therefore focused more on AP than DC).
I mean he clearly wasn't at 100 for the past 8k years. I meant it more his taiji was way below his peak (considering Ootake and Sukuna's were 50 and those two are the closest to Yato). And he wouldn't hold back because he needs the EE to overcome him. If not then he would have to use Habaki as a meat shield. He may not elaborate further but why imply he can't when he just died BEFORE the last part. That quote doesn't imply he couldn't, he died before he finished the drill and commented its deep as hell for that reason. He never implied he CANNOT. He just regretted leaving his work half-assed to a degree but was confident EE can find a way past the layer (Gudou's don't clash with the Godhead so they don't have the normal properties to just blast through and had to have Mibu and Shiori fight one another).
Which is why he wanted Habaki to prove himself worthy and to defeat him in a fight, which has nothing to do with the whole final layer thing given how at that time he already considered the Eastern Expedition to be worthy of taking down Hajun.
He had to test them at full power. In that same K3 VFB Masada even reiterates if Habaki didn't satisfy his criteria then he will use ANY means which involves making Habaki a meat shield. Yato is a Hadou, he would have to keep digging regardless so he was doing that while fighting Habaki as the godhead's Hadou has to clash with the "challenger". It's like an artist dying of cancer before finishing his painting and leaving it to his assistants to add the final touches.
Q Would a newly reborn Yato have a chance to beat Hajun?
A He has no chance in a direct fight. However, if he choices to use any means necessary there is a chance to kill Hajun. In the battle of Ezo he could have gone to Hajun with everyone, using Habaki as a shield and weapon, standing around to take advantage of the situation. In reality, he was thinking of this as a last resort. He would have done so if he judged that Habaki and the rest were hopeless. As he said it himself "If you guys cannot surpass the domination of the sixth heaven, I will turn everything into hell to defeat Hajun".
We have to remember Ren IC rather not have his law emanate and be the godhead. But since it's Hajun he considered it an option (but a final option)
I didn't use Taikyoku values when it comes to scaling due to both being inconsistent and "having many problems" according to Masada himself. That being said, in his weakened state he should still be above the likes of Mercurius given how Masada says that Ootake can kill Reinhard + he's stated to have transcended Mercurius when Yakou explores the Singularity + he has a statement about holding infinite anger and according to the Shinga Commandment this would result in Yato being infinitely stronger than Mercurius even in his weakened state.
How? Taikyoku rankings are a measure of the God's territory and strength of law. And Ootake being able to kill Reinhard and Merc is likely because Yato himself is stronger at full power. I mean ofc he was stronger by this point, Yato/Ren was 100. Shinga's commandment doesn't have much to do with this and nothing states Yato weakened > Merc. It's likely on the premise that Yato was "reborn" otherwise that would be contradictory on many parts as Yato's law (and by extension his army's laws) cannot work if he was weaker that's literally the basis of the rankings overall.
He doesn't regret leaving it to the Eastern Expedition, that's literally the point: it says its for the better because that would act as the final trial for the EE. Also, do i need to remind you that Soujirou and Shiori, when they opened the final layer, were stated to be having the most powerful clash since the dawn of the Sixth Heaven and also Soujirou himself has a statement about being able to kill all the Tenmas (there's also a statement regarding both of them surpassing the average hegemony gods in terms of power, however i'm not sure what the metric here is so i won't add it).
I said he regrets not finishing off the final layer. I'm saying he never implied he couldn't. It's just better this way instead of him doing it and let the EE do it (It's like saying: "I wished I could have finished destroying a wall in my house before I have to go but I'll leave it to you so it's fine"). And I doubt Mibu would beat a fully powered Tenma legion but he would have likely won when they were all weakened at 50 or less (especially since end game Mibu and Shiori are 60)
Tldr; Taiji values haven't really contradicted each other. We just know its not an end all be all problem. And Yato's layer thing never even implied he couldn't just regretted not finishing it but saw a silver lining that made it a very minor regret seeing he thinks its better he died before finishing it and letting the EE open that layer.
Just to give an example, Numahime has a lower value than both Akuro and Morei, yet by feats she should have their same value given how she was going to kill everyone in the Eastern Expedition if Niko/Teirei didn't attack her earlier, which means that she was going to kill an Habaki who was stated to be stronger than the one we saw at Fuji who was able to repel Ootake's Briah which is stated to be above Akuro & Morei with Taikyoku activated (and iirc Niko/Teirei also has a statement regarding him being stronger compared to his performance at Fuwa-no-Seki).
The cast besides Yakou, Ryuumei and Niko/Teirei don't have Taiji by then no cuz they all got whopped? And Habaki's immortality is already wack on it's own.
No? When Yato is reborn, he deactivates all the other pillars of the Yatsukahagi, which means that said statement refers to Ootake's Taikyoku being on par with Weakened Yato's one.
It's to be reborn. Yato's legion was never at full power during the game and his legion is like Reinhard's in that they are as strong as whatever Yato's strength is (it can be lower but that's all). Their peak is when Yato is at his peak which we also never see since they lost to the other members and then Tokoyo's taiji was used to rebirth him. We have to ignore Masada's explanation and the story's explanation completely to say a weaker Yato > full power Merc.
The fact is that he indirectly did through this: he regrets not being able to drill through the last layer when he literally drilled through the entirety of the Singularity at his peak during the fight, which implies that Yato can't do it. However, by leaving the work to the EE he says that "its better this way" because that would act as a final trial for them.
Can you even prove he said he can't? Like...every time I read it, it just implies Yato's regret is minor because the EE finishing what he started was better than him cutting the final layer. You kept saying he is unable but the text never states his lack of ability. Only commenting the depth of Hajun's throne is really deep. And the fact Masada states Yato COULD challenge Hajun is he used ALL POSSIBLE MEANS implies he can reach the throne if Habaki and co failed. Hajun's throne is just really far due to his strength.
They are just hyping themselves up cuz Mibu thinks he can cut Hajun lolz. Which you know...he CAN'T and didn't in their final confrontation. Hell he struggled with an extreme bootleged Satanael and only won together with Shiori. The singularity makes sense since he is a cutter and the Tenma he knew were not as strong as their likely peaks (since he only fought a weakened Akuro).
@Mugen-Kokutosho-Jigoku@TISSG7Redgrave This thread is staff-only, and neither of you have demonstrated permission to post here, so I'm going to delete your posts. They can be un-deleted if you present that permission.
Thread mods can only grant permission for one post at a time. I'm 99% certain that Glassman can't just say "sure" and un-delete your last 5 posts, and I'm 100% certain that you'd need to keep asking him before each future post.
Thread mods can only grant permission for one post at a time. I'm 99% certain that Glassman can't just say "sure" and un-delete your last 5 posts, and I'm 100% certain that you'd need to keep asking him before each future post.
well i did ask you and Ant before just didn't get a response. Didn't know the hierarchy on how much I'm allowed on which staff I asked but yeah I already put on yours and Ant's message wall for that reason.
well i did ask you and Ant before just didn't get a response. Didn't know the hierarchy on how much I'm allowed on which staff I asked but yeah I already put on yours and Ant's message wall for that reason.
@Mugen-Kokutosho-Jigoku@TISSG7Redgrave This thread is staff-only, and neither of you have demonstrated permission to post here, so I'm going to delete your posts. They can be un-deleted if you present that permission.
Sorry for the late reply. Anyway, i did ask @GarrixianXD for permission on Discord the day before the deletition of my messages and she granted me it. However, it seems like i didn't know that i need to ask permission every single time i want to make a reply on the thread so my apologies for not following the rules of staff-only threads.
I really don't understand how such a simple CRT derailed so much. Anyway, I read through the Blog (Which definitely will need to be improved on, once this is over), and translated a few of the raws myself, and they line up to what's said on the page, so I don't doubt the translation.
I agree with the Singularity being 1-A, based on the whole being deeper/under the Canvas of which everything is painted stuff, which shows a qualitative difference.
From my understanding laws broke through the Canvas in the first place, and can keep opening holes deeper into the singularity, so I have no issue with Taikyoku being 1-A.
Throne exists at the bottom of the Singularity, and seems to scale to everything that's been brought up thus far, plus a few other fancy things so 1-A is fine there as well.
I really don't understand how such a simple CRT derailed so much. Anyway, I read through the Blog (Which definitely will need to be improved on, once this is over), and translated a few of the raws myself, and they line up to what's said on the page, so I don't doubt the translation.
I agree with the Singularity being 1-A, based on the whole being deeper/under the Canvas of which everything is painted stuff, which shows a qualitative difference.
From my understanding laws broke through the Canvas in the first place, and can keep opening holes deeper into the singularity, so I have no issue with Taikyoku being 1-A.
Throne exists at the bottom of the Singularity, and seems to scale to everything that's been brought up thus far, plus a few other fancy things so 1-A is fine there as well.
Thank you for your evaluation.
The blog is not the official verse blog, just something meant strictly for Content Revision. The real one will be much more structured using this as the skeleton.
Characters or objects residing in higher states of existence surpassing material composition as a whole, and who are therefore completely unreachable and inaccessible to any and all extensions of the aforementioned structures. Their superiority over such realms, as such, is purely "qualitative"; based entirely on the ontological quality and nature of their existence, rather than any quantitative or numerical principle.
A way to explain their superiority over "physical composition" would be to bring attention to the fact that all of the previous tiers can be expressed as the union of constructs of lower tiers. For example, a 4-dimensional spacetime continuum is at most Low 2-C. However, an inaccessible cardinal's worth of such spacetimes is well into High 1-B+. In spite of the extremely large gap in size between the individuals comprising this totality and the totality itself, the latter is simply the sum of all the former, and as such both ultimately reside in the same state of existence, and have continuity of composition within that state.
Likewise, even the Von Neumann Universe (As well as larger structures still) is still simply the union of many elements that, individually, are smaller than itself. And the same applies to any mathematical space whatsoever.
A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System#cite_note-3">[note 3]</a>
This tier can be extended into higher levels in the same vein as 1-C and 1-B. And should a character or object effect something equivalent to infinitely many of such levels, they should have a "+" modifier in their Attack Potency section (Outerverse level+).
What Is Reality-Fiction Transcendence in Detail?
Reality-Fiction Transcendence is a state where a being is qualitatively superior to another world, as a result of seeing the world as fiction and thus being more 'real' than said world. Due to this, the character will be treated as completely superior to the cosmology it transcends, and all characters limited to it, and will thus be granted a higher tier.
For example, if a character were to view an entire space-time continuum as fiction, they would be superior to such an extent that it would be viewed not as a small portion or constituent of their reality, but as trivialized into nonexistence by comparison, such that their higher world is wholly irreducible to anything pertaining to the lower world. This complete superceding of the lower world's nature lands all such characters at 1-A.
In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered.
Indeed, that passage is entirely metaphorical talk to describe a dimensional difference.
(なのに無傷。まったく無傷。薄皮一枚切り裂けない。それは紫織の拳を受け止めたときと同様で、頑強さと言うより別位相の物理を目にしたかのようだった。Nano ni múkìzù. Màttákú múkìzù. Úsùkàwá ìchímáì kìrísáké náì. Sore wa shiori no ken o uketometa toki to dōyōde, gàńkyō-sa toiu yori bètsú ísō no butsuri o me ni shita ka no yōdatta.) But was unharmed. Completely unharmed. Didn't even cut a single layer of skin. It was the same when they blocked Shiori's fist and rather than being super stubborn it was almost as if he saw another phase of the laws of physics.
(喩えるなら、絵の中でどれだけ猛火を描写しようと、それが現実の人間を燃やせるわけがないのと同じ。Tatoerunara, e no naka de dore dake mōka o byōsha shiyou to, sore ga genjitsu no ningen o moyaseru wake ga nai no to onaji.) Figuratively speaking, no matter how raging a fire is depicted in a painting/drawing, it can not burn a real human being.
(立っている場所がそもそも違うという断絶感。Tatte iru basho ga somosomo chigau to iu danzetsu-kan.) There's a sense of disconnection of the place where they are standing is different than where they were in the first place.
(そして、絵に現実は害せなくても、現実が絵を破壊することは容易に出来る。) Even while the painting/drawing can not harm reality, reality can easily harm the painting/drawing.
(高次元から低次元への攻撃は、赤子の手を捻るよりも通しやすい。) An attack from a higher dimension to a lower dimension, is easier to pass than twisting a baby's hand.
Translation courtesy of apotheosis. The fourth passage speaking of a painting not being able to harm reality, but reality being able to destroy the painting, apotheosis further clarifies that it does correlate to the metaphorical talk in the second passage.
I would also like to bring up other anti-feats that break the R > F suggestion and the 1-A rating proposals.
One example is Ren/Yato's state as a god.
俺は本来、〈座〉《かみ》の位階に立てる器じゃない。純血種であるこいつやマリィとは異なる混血だから、父の死もろとも神性を失うことで人に戻れる。
I'm not originally worthy of taking the rank of god (Throne). Unlike him and Marie, who are purebloods, I'm a half-blood, so I can only return to being human after losing my divinity along with my father's death.
Can Ren reach Emanation without Marie's help? Are there any other characters that could potentially lead to Emanation?
Since he suffers from the super 14-year-old disease caused by Mercury poisoning, Ren is able to do it alone, but it's assumed that Merc is "making sure that happens". This is the same with Reinhard. Therefore, Marie and Merc are the only two people who are genuinely in the Atziluth (Emanation/流出) Degree in the story.
The first scan exists in the Battle of Three Colors in Dies Irae, which was released after Kajiri Kamui Kagura Akebono no Hikari, the definitive version of that game. The second scan is a translation courtesy of Qliphoth Bacikal.
This speaks of how Ren wasn't someone born with the qualifications to become a Hadou God and needs the blood of his father, Mercurius, an actual god Hadou God, to become one. If Mercurius dies, so does Ren along with his godhood. If that's the case, how does Ren continue to exist as Yato in Kajiri Kamui Kagura when Mercurius is dead?
Does Yato-sama still contain the part of Lotus inside of him?
They do. Or rather, it has no longer sublimated into a separate life that continues to exist even after its parent, Mercury, is destroyed. Simply put, he has surpassed his father because his love for the Twilight was stronger than that of Mercury. Think of Yato as a new character that Ren Fuji and Lotus Reichhart fused in a higher dimension.
Translation courtesy of Qliphoth Bacikal. This comes from Kajiri Kamui Kagura VFB QnA Interview, released after Akebono no Hikari but before Battle of Three Colors.
So Yato exists as a god because he fuses with his previous life and because of his love for Marie. I honestly don't know how a single human soul fusing with his previous life as another human can become a god plus love for Marie would propel him from non 1-A to 1-A. Unless love can be proven as a metaphysical 1-A power source. There's also the fact that Yato is described as a higher dimensional existence, which would negate 1-A due to still being constrained by dimensions.
The other example I want to talk about is Magsarion and his Madou.
Supporters say that Meifu Madou is the end result of Madou, like how Hadou God/Gudou God is the end result of Hadou and Gudou. Except we are not told Meifu Madou is equivalent to the latter and Magsarion is explicitly already on the path of Meifu Madou for the majority of the second half of Avesta before he goes on to fight the god tiers of the story.
This was the remains of the demonic planet once known as the Workshop of Destruction.
"Khaverenah's 'beauty' was incomplete, but it should have been enough to help you understand what the world is. Including the incident with Varhram, you would have been a different person without that child."
"Suppose so."
Magsarion briefly agreed, and Nadare responded with a broad smile. Despite being already bloody and beyond gruesome, there was a hint of jealously floating about that was seemed rather refreshing.
"It's for that reason that I wanted to forge a 'beautiful sword' for you. That way, we can preserve even a little of the Immutability of the ideals Khaverenah's sought."
An emanation of Hegemony will repaint the cosmos/universe. A new world that is brought about via the succession of Gods. Through fighting with the Maiden of the Halo of Light, Magsarion had come to understand how it worked. The Avesta that governs the thoughts of both Ashavan and Dragvant is not just mere instinct, but something he realized as an existence that reigns at the top at the Divine Throne and dyes everything in its color.
It was like some sort of paradigm shift. The realization that he could kill living things had pushed Magsarion to a new realm.
However, Meifu Madou was not yet complete. At least to this point, he had yet to begin to glimpse at the mystery of Varhram, the one he wanted to uncover the most out of.
Supporters say this is when Magsarion ascended and become 1-A. However, he already had this realization during his fight with Khaverenah, which was before he fought beings like Kaikhosru and Nadare. Kaikhosru can dismember one of Magsarion's hand and keep it around him. Nadare can affect him like this and even break his sword. So unless someone like Nadare herself is 1-A also, this disproves the above scan saying Magsarion became 1-A due to this specific realization.
The completion of Meifu Madou doesn't happen unless he understands Varhram, which happens in his second to last fight in the story. So when exactly does Magsarion become 1-A and what higher source of power does he rely on? Because Madou doesn't seem to have a definitive end goal like Hadou God and Gudou God, and Meifu Madou is ill-defined in how it's equivalent to the other two. As a matter of fact, Magsarion uses his Meifu Madou to become a Hadou God and in his own words it is "evolution" for him to be doing this. It just seems as if he relies on his own power which goes against the standards of 1-A.
And I'm not done with Magsarion. There's how he can travel from the normal world, through the singularity, and reach the Throne.
Yet no matter what people perceived him as, the fact he was someone who brings about death was undeniable. From that instant he started, he would kill, slaughter, and murder each and every person by assessing and dissecting them until eventually, the end result will be that all life have vanished. Now that he was physically "nothing", there was no one else whom he could shift his focus on the other side.
At least, no one that was present right now.
The world that had become a wasteland after the slaughter was one where only he stood. That Monster--Magsaion, looked onwards without looking back on his tracks, staring from the death earth to the starless sky.
Come on out. You're next. He barked silently to the one who had yet to show themselves. That man's unrestless spirit told him it was not yet over.
If anything, the real one had yet to appear. The source of everything, the Throne of God lies in the depths. And it went without saying that it is a realm where supernatural overlaps with supernatural. Thus, only those who meet the qualifications can reach it let alone pinpoint its exact coordinates.
And by qualifications, it means having the aptitude for Hegemony as well as a level/rank not inferior to that of the current God. In other words, only when both dispotision and strength are present will the gates open up. However, Magsarion did not satisfy the former condition. Though he had no issues with strength/power, he lacked the mentality to create and rule a new world.
His act of annihilation was also meant to fill in that gap. if "everyone" were killed in the universe, it would cause everything to shrink and all phenomena would be concentrated onto a singular point. To put in a metaphor, it would be like hunting where you corner your prey and block off its escape routes. The logic was simple, and it was something anyone could have come up with. But what made it astonishing was the naivety with how he was seeing it through to the end. No matter what the future holds, it's unlikely that anyone would have been able to do the same as Magsarion did.
This was undoubtedly and unpredently Meifu Madou. Perhaps Kami/God herself wanted to witness it all and thus didn't bother to intervene.
I don't know about you, but this method of reaching the Throne is wonky to me. Magsarion kills every living being in the universe and this seemingly opens a direct path to the Throne where he just skips through the singularity. Unless the normal universe is 1-A, anything that happens in it shouldn't affect a 1-A space.
The last example I want to talk about is Yakou from Kajiri Kamui Kagura.
With just a slight murmur, Yakou's Taikyoku completely vanished.
From sensory to mere cell. Along with the intense pain, the ultimate training that had been achieved was removed from the bones and flesh.
"Gaaah, aaahhh... ah, guuuh, ha!"
"Ha-jun..."
"It stinks. Ah, I've become so tainted."
Gazing at the Taikyoku he had recovered, Hajun muttered emotionlessly.
"You're nothing but trash. Utterly small and foul."
"Hahahaha. How filthy, how disgusting - get out of here. There's no room for trash to live in my Sky (Taikyoku)."
"So who are you? I don't know, need or care about the dregs known as Madara Yakou or Yamaenraten."
"Ahh, what's with you? You were never here to begin with..."
"Fukukukuahahaha, go and be miserably crushed!"
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"
The waves of the childish Hegemony that were showered upon him were powerful enough to chip away at the entire continent, knocking Yakou's body flying.
The waves of spatial vibrations that occurred at the singularity caused his entire body to be pulverized as he went back through the dimensional hole he had followed, heading towards the earth above, where it collapsed along with the shattered heavens.
The five waves that impressed him. In the blink of an eye, he pierced the ranks and swept back to the point where he had begun his infiltration.
He was banished to normal space and finally freed from the divine power of Hajun. But what consolation was that?
To summarize, When Yakou reaches the Throne as a god, he gets all of his Taikyoku taken from him by Hajun. This lowers him from a god back to a mortal because that Taikyoku originally belongs to Hajun. Not only does Yakou continue to exist in the Throne as a mortal, Hajun blasts him with his Hadou, yes, literally his Hadou(覇道), and Yakou gets sent flying from the Throne, through the entire singularity where he sees remnants of the previous Hadou Gods, but not without being hit by spatial fluctuations from the singularity too, and back to the normal world. But it doesn't end there, Yakou survived all that punishment. He's dying, but he's still breathing, and his soul is still there. He survived long enough to have a conversation with Ryuusui before he finally dies from the injuries. How does a non 1-A being survive from all that by two supposed 1-A existences without instantly dying? Especially from Hajun, the strongest Hadou God in the entire series, and the singularity this thread is proposing to be 1-A.
天元突破を果たしたものが、人の領域に易々住まうはずがない。あの夜刀よりも巨大な質量を有しているというのなら、この世界では耐えられぬ。空間もろともただ在るだけで〈破けてしまう〉。 薄い和紙で山を支えるようなものだ。地には住めぬ、脆すぎる。ゆえに当然、その身が在るのは──
It's impossible for something that broke through the heavens (Tengen Toppa) to easily inhabit the realm of men. If it has more mass than Yato, it would be unbearable in this world. Their mere existence within that space {will tear it apart}. It's like supporting an entire mountain with thin pieces of paper. It can't live on earth, it's too fragile.
They cannot easily exist in the world, doesn't mean it's impossible. Hadou God Ren at the end of Marie route in Dies Irae exists in the normal world because he got ejected from the singularity and now wanders the world wondering when Marie can come down from the Throne using a sensory to meet her again. He even visits France, Marie's gravesite at the epilogue of Marie Route. He stays in the normal world for so long, he visits his old friend Kasumi from high school who had become an old woman at the special epilogue of Marie Route.
And before someone comes to accuse me of not having read the series and calls me ignorant yet again, I have a Youtube channel I use to upload my playthrough of Kajiri Kamui Kagura. And those videos are THREE years old. So before making more accusations of me not having actually touched the series so you can discredit my opinion, cool yourself.
Since Redgrave is an administrator in one of our partner wikis and seems to know what he's talking about here, I undeleted his posts and think that he can continue to post here.
So Yato exists as a god because he fuses with his previous life and because of his love for Marie. I honestly don't know how a single human soul fusing with his previous life as another human can become a god plus love for Marie would propel him from non 1-A to 1-A. Unless love can be proven as a metaphysical 1-A power source. There's also the fact that Yato is described as a higher dimensional existence, which would negate 1-A due to still being constrained by dimensions.
The thing is Shinza is based on wishes and ego alone. In fact Yato is just a fusion of both selves to sustain himself. Considering Yato despite deprived of his legion is the sole strongest Hadou sans Hajun via craving alone kinda shows quantity didn't matter.
This speaks of how Ren wasn't someone born with the qualifications to become a Hadou God and needs the blood of his father, Mercurius, an actual god Hadou God, to become one. If Mercurius dies, so does Ren along with his godhood. If that's the case, how does Ren continue to exist as Yato in Kajiri Kamui Kagura when Mercurius is dead?
The issue is REN is the one that dies, not Lotus. After all Lotus is more of the basis that Merc used to tweak Ren into a Hadou. He was made to be one if needed but since he still had a "human aspect" thx to how he exists then Ren himself would die not Lotus.
The other example I want to talk about is Magsarion and his Madou.
Supporters say that Meifu Madou is the end result of Madou, like how Hadou God/Gudou God is the end result of Hadou and Gudou. Except we are not told Meifu Madou is equivalent to the latter and Magsarion is explicitly already on the path of Meifu Madou for the majority of the second half of Avesta before he goes on to fight the god tiers of the story.
Idk why its considered that but I think its more accurate to say it has hadou and gudou traits but is neither so really it doesn't matter since Madou is Mags exclusive.
Supporters say this is when Magsarion ascended and become 1-A. However, he already had this realization during his fight with Khaverenah, which was before he fought beings like Kaikhosru and Nadare. Kaikhosru can dismember one of Magsarion's hand and keep it around him. Nadare can affect him like this and even break his sword. So unless someone like Nadare herself is 1-A also, this disproves the above scan saying Magsarion became 1-A due to this specific realization.
The completion of Meifu Madou doesn't happen unless he understands Varhram, which happens in his second to last fight in the story. So when exactly does Magsarion become 1-A and what higher source of power does he rely on? Because Madou doesn't seem to have a definitive end goal like Hadou God and Gudou God, and Meifu Madou is ill-defined in how it's equivalent to the other two. As a matter of fact, Magsarion uses his Meifu Madou to become a Hadou God and in his own words it is "evolution" for him to be doing this. It just seems as if he relies on his own power which goes against the standards of 1-A.
I do agree but the thing is, Mags only started to really understand his new style by that point. We know after all his fights he "leveled up" to say the least after killing Nadare. And Nadare couldn't come back as an administor of Evil since Mags killed her permanently. I'm Mags absorbed the Hadou traits and prayers of Sirius, Khaverenah and Kaikhosru is why he can be a Hadou without breaking his commandments as he would need to stay on his path to ensure he wasn't triggering Tensui and needed a personality armor to be one. Meifu Madou is in a way a different path as it can contend against God (mithra) but is a bad matchup not in strength but attribute.
To summarize, When Yakou reaches the Throne as a god, he gets all of his Taikyoku taken from him by Hajun. This lowers him from a god back to a mortal because that Taikyoku originally belongs to Hajun. Not only does Yakou continue to exist in the Throne as a mortal, Hajun blasts him with his Hadou, yes, literally his Hadou(覇道), and Yakou gets sent flying from the Throne, through the entire singularity where he sees remnants of the previous Hadou Gods, but not without being hit by spatial fluctuations from the singularity too, and back to the normal world. But it doesn't end there, Yakou survived all that punishment. He's dying, but he's still breathing, and his soul is still there. He survived long enough to have a conversation with Ryuusui before he finally dies from the injuries. How does a non 1-A being survive from all that by two supposed 1-A existences without instantly dying? Especially from Hajun, the strongest Hadou God in the entire series, and the singularity this thread is proposing to be 1-A.
They cannot easily exist in the world, doesn't mean it's impossible. Hadou God Ren at the end of Marie route in Dies Irae exists in the normal world because he got ejected from the singularity and now wanders the world wondering when Marie can come down from the Throne using a sensory to meet her again. He even visits France, Marie's gravesite at the epilogue of Marie Route. He stays in the normal world for so long, he visits his old friend Kasumi from high school who had become an old woman at the special epilogue of Marie Route.
Marie is a special case as firstly Ren and Merc were called walking singularities akin to what Gudous tend to be defined as. But we also know Marie's law ALLOWS other Hadous to exist so it won't really be too problematic as she can handle it (though there is a limit). And before someone asks about Hajun and Yato, Shinshuu is a singularity so Yato and co kept existing there and only there anyway.
I don't know about you, but this method of reaching the Throne is wonky to me. Magsarion kills every living being in the universe and this seemingly opens a direct path to the Throne where he just skips through the singularity. Unless the normal universe is 1-A, anything that happens in it shouldn't affect a 1-A space.
The idea is to shrink the universe and converging it until the Godhead focuses only on him. It's "opening" via forcing Mithra to only look at him. Satanael even tried this via ragnarok (but failed as Muzan did not care in the slightest). It's unorthodox and never really is done again as such (unless 3rd and 5th heaven talks on other ways).
As I have said before, you do this thing where you make a post and include so many random things hoping one of them will stick, and I have complained about that in the first page. Most of your points have been responded to as I have been made aware, and also the whole Madou thing we have gone over previously and I have addressed, I will make a short reply of the one that hasn't been
Indeed, that passage is entirely metaphorical talk to describe a dimensional difference.
Translation courtesy of apotheosis. The fourth passage speaking of a painting not being able to harm reality, but reality being able to destroy the painting, apotheosis further clarifies that it does correlate to the metaphorical talk in the second passage.
Metaphorical description of how R>F works, is still valid, even though I do not agree it is metaphorical, but it is not my place to argue semantics.
Leave that passage alone
There are more than 5 other scans explaining how the Gods view the world as a mandala e.t.c. So this whole point of R>F no true is moot, since there are like tons of statements and feats that says otherwise.
They cannot easily exist in the world, doesn't mean it's impossible. Hadou God Ren at the end of Marie route in Dies Irae exists in the normal world because he got ejected from the singularity and now wanders the world wondering when Marie can come down from the Throne using a sensory to meet her again. He even visits France, Marie's gravesite at the epilogue of Marie Route. He stays in the normal world for so long, he visits his old friend Kasumi from high school who had become an old woman at the special epilogue of Marie Route.
You read a text that says this as example "It's like supporting an entire mountain with thin pieces of paper." and proceed to say it is possible. No they cannot, it has been repeatedly said and shown, and yes they have only ever existed as sensories in the real world and that is not an issue
And before someone comes to accuse me of not having read the series and calls me ignorant yet again, I have a Youtube channel I use to upload my playthrough of Kajiri Kamui Kagura. And those videos are THREE years old. So before making more accusations of me not having actually touched the series so you can discredit my opinion, cool yourself.
Just because you have a YT channel where you posted videos of a part of the game does not equal that you have actually read the series, as shown based on your claims in Avesta.
