Shiki Tohno Vs Gilgamesh

[CrystalValley]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Shiki_Tohno?so=search

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gilgamesh_(Fate_Series)?so=search

Melty Blood Tohno is being used

Servant Gilgamesh is being used

SBA otherwise

does Gilgamesh SNI his way to victory with his versatile hax or does Tohno speed blitz before he can do anything?

Nanaya personality emerging is restricted.

Tohno: @HyperZero95 @Stillwinston @Violatas @TheKingStrategist13 @Ethan37 @Adrianelloxd @CrystalValley

Gilgamesh: @Ubdon

 

[Ethan37]

Speed blitz is a meme unless you're Nanaya

 

[CrystalValley]

Speed blitz is a meme unless you're Nanaya

MB Tohno blitzed Vampire Sion. and her normal form can already keep up with Arcueid a bit. not saying Gilgamesh is out of the game though. he's definitely outclassed in speed. but it's Gilgamesh so SNI may factor in and his crazy amount of hax.

 

[Ethan37]

Old ass canon, Sion is not even a thing in Lumina

 

[CrystalValley]

Old ass canon, Sion is not even a thing in Lumina

uh ok? this is the original canon Shiki Tohno. remake doesn't even have profiles. Remake Shiki even if he got a profile likely would get obliterated here anyways.

 

[Ubdon]

What range between them?

 

[CrystalValley]

What range between them?

i thought SBA covered that or something. actually i just checked how SBA works here. the problem is that the range on each character's profile is extremely vague. especially Gilgamesh's. so i don't know what their highest respective ranges are with normal attacks. since Gilgamesh is vaguely in the kilometers range in his profile, should we just make it 2 kilometers i guess? not a high or low ball? i'm up for other ideas but i guess i'll go wth that right now.

on another topic. should be noted that SNI could play a factor but Shiki also has clairvoyance (future sight) and enhanced senses compared to seeing the future almost by sensing his incoming death. just throwing out some things people may or may not miss.

in my opinion, Gilgamesh's advantage of flight is a big one. but i don't know if he can or even would fly into the air in time in character before Shiki reaches him. but I also think Shiki should be able to deal with GoB fairly well. massively faster and is able to sense his incoming death and even see future events along with inhuman combat skills. so not sure how this plays out. the range thing with Shiki is another issue too. it says his range is further with his knife. but how far can he throw it? enough to hit Gilgamesh high in the air if he's flying? it's not really stated. assuming of course Gilgamesh pulls off going to the air in time or even wants to. i thought there were a lot of interesting possibilities in this one going off the profiles.

 

[Ubdon]

in my opinion, Gilgameh's advantage of flight is a big one. but i don't know if he can or even would fly into the air in time in-character before Shiki reaches him. but I also think Shiki should be able to deal with GoB fairly well. much faster and is able to sense his incoming death and even see future events. so not sure how this plays out.

Ig it's in character

I think Gilgamesh won't abuse SNI against someone like Shiki+probably gonna use only around 7-9 portals from start and only from 1 direction.

 

[CrystalValley]

Ig it's in character

I think Gilgamesh won't abuse SNI against someone like Shiki+probably gonna use only around 7-9 portals from start and only from 1 direction.

how do you think this would play out then when factoring in how Gilgamesh would start? i think that's a pretty bad idea on his part and won't end well. but i'll also wait for what others think in terms of how Gilgamesh will handle this. people seem to always love to debate how he'll react to opponents.

 

[Ubdon]

how do you think this would play out then when factoring in how Gilgamesh would start? i think that's a pretty bad idea on his part and won't end well. but i'll also wait for what others think in terms of how Gilgamesh will handle this. people seem to always love to debate how he'll react to opponents.

For me Shiki has more chance here.

By the way, I'm not familiar with Tohno, so I want to ask if he starts with gg eyes or try to blitz?

 

[CrystalValley]

For me Shiki has more chance here.

By the way, I'm not familiar with Tohno, so I want to ask if he starts with gg eyes or try to blitz?

if he's willing to kill he will always use his eyes and go for the blitz. should be noted that MEoDP can kill abilities and shit. so if he strikes Gilgamesh's weapons, the weapons and their effects will be erased, including Ea and the Seventh Holy Scripture. if Gilgamesh lands a direct hit though, it should work out well. the problem is doing that.

 

[Ubdon]

if he's willing to kill he will always use his eyes and go for the blitz. should be noted that MEoDP can kill abilities and shit. so if he strikes Gilgamesh's weapons, the weapons and their effects will be erased, including Ea and the Seventh Holy Scripture. if Gilgamesh lands a direct hit though, it should work out well. the problem is doing that.

Then i vote for Shiki until here will be good arguments for Gilgamesh

 

[Ubdon]

in my opinion, Gilgamesh's advantage of flight is a big one. but i don't know if he can or even would fly into the air in time in character before Shiki reaches him. but I also think Shiki should be able to deal with GoB fairly well. massively faster and is able to sense his incoming death and even see future events along with inhuman combat skills. so not sure how this plays out. the range thing with Shiki is another issue too. it says his range is further with his knife. but how far can he throw it? enough to hit Gilgamesh high in the air if he's flying? it's not really stated. assuming of course Gilgamesh pulls off going to the air in time or even wants to. i thought there were a lot of interesting possibilities in this one going off the profiles.

Gil flight way out of character, if you mean something like his fight with berserker. Yeah 7 gob probably not the biggest problem, but if he pull something like enkidu or gae bolg would be harder. Gil probably able to use protection from aroow amuklet, so knife throw wouldn't be really effective.

 

[CrystalValley]

Gil flight way out of character, if you mean something like his fight with berserker. Yeah 7 gob probably not the biggest problem, but if he pull something like enkidu or gae bolg would be harder. Gil probably able to use protection from aroow amuklet, so knife throw wouldn't be really effective.

i meant like fly high in the air like against Enkidu in Strange Fake.

MEoDP works with ranged attacks, so long as they strike lines. so he could strike the amulet. or even the lines and points of the ability itself potentially.

can GoB weapons be grabbed and used by other people btw? i know Lancealot did it with his ability, but are others allowed to just grab them against Gilgamesh's will if he shot some at a person? that'd mean Shiki would always have access to throwable weapons and just weapons in general.

 

[Ubdon]

i meant like fly high in the air like against Enkidu in Strange Fake.

MEoDP works with ranged attacks, so long as they strike lines. so he could strike the amulet. or even the lines and points of the ability itself potentially.

can GoB weapons be grabbed and used by other people btw? i know Lancealot did it with his ability, but are others allowed to just grab them against Gilgamesh's will if he shot some at a person? that'd mean Shiki would always have access to throwable weapons.

Oh that... probably he doesn't start unless really goes close combat and goes serious.

If so, ok.

Most likely yes, but if the weapon is anything like poison on touch, that fight is probably over.

 

[CrystalValley]

Oh that... probably he doesn't start unless really goes close combat and start fighting serious.

If so, ok.

Most likely yes, but if the weapon is anything like poison on touch, that fight is probably over.

Shiki has actually canonically killed poison from his body and others several times with MEoDP. he can visualize the death of the poison and stab it without damaging his body. he did this to save Kohaku from lethal poison in one ending and did this on himself when vampire blood/poison was injected into his body that would allow his opponent to control him.

Nanaya (who is the same person with the same eyes) did this when Tohno was earlier bitten on the neck and injected with Yumizuka's blood that would turn him into a vampire under her control. his eyes were much less evolved at the time too. this was the start of Tsukihime.

Spoiler: Nanaya Vs Yumizuka

he then just proceeds to blitz and one shot her. so Gilgamesh's poison should be useless even if he has poison on touch weapons.

 

[Ubdon]

Np's poison can be lethal or straight up instant death, so he wouldn't have time to use his eyes. But most likely it will be like you say

 

[CrystalValley]

Np's poison can be lethal or straight instant death, so he wouldn't have time to use his eyes. But most likely it will be like you say

i mean is there an NP we know of that has poison that is instant death and death on just touching the weapon at the same time? Shiki also can again sense his death which he would sense upon reaching for such a weapon along with seeing the future. not arguing for Shiki FYI. i just don't think dying by grabbing a weapon is happening for several reasons.

 

[Ubdon]

i mean is there an NP we know of that has poison that is instant death and death on just touching the weapon at the same time? Shiki also can again sense his death which he would sense upon reaching for such a weapon along with seeing the future. not arguing for Shiki FYI. i just don't think dying by grabbing a weapon is happening for several reasons.

True that more likely assumption about gil wincons, however david ark closest to it but 1)never use 2)don't know if even can also would be funny if gilgamesh able to use something like rider class np's or semiramis in character

 

[HyperZero95]

Shiki should win. He has a great speed advantage and Death Perception should deal with most of GOB. Gilgamesh being in character does not help his case either. It would also restrict his use of SNI, to the point he would reject certain outcomes where he loses out of pride.

 

[CrystalValley]

bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Guess I'll vote the kid that sees things fra

 

[Adrianelloxd]

i mean is there an NP we know of that has poison that is instant death and death on just touching the weapon at the same time?

I don't think it matters, Móralltach is the closest to that with death inducement but Gil would most definitely just throw random swords like he always does unless there is something to be said about mystic eyes he respects or finds dangerous that would get him to be a bit serious. Also Ea being nulled by Shiki might work but Ea's radial attacks like in Zero that tore apart a big chunk of the battlefield when in Ionian Hetairoi will most certainly pose a problem, of course I don't know why Ea was brought up in the first place, he ain't pulling it out on a human kid unless he's about to get his arm cut that's for sure.
I haven't decided on who to vote yet so give some arguments, looking like Gil's ego loses rn tho that's for sure.

 

[CrystalValley]

I don't think it matters, Móralltach is the closest to that with death inducement but Gil would most definitely just throw random swords like he always does unless there is something to be said about mystic eyes he respects or finds dangerous that would get him to be a bit serious. Also Ea being nulled by Shiki might work but Ea's radial attacks like in Zero that tore apart a big chunk of the battlefield when in Ionian Hetairoi will most certainly pose a problem, of course I don't know why Ea was brought up in the first place, he ain't pulling it out on a human kid unless he's about to get his arm cut that's for sure.
I haven't decided on who to vote yet so give some arguments, looking like Gil's ego loses rn tho that's for sure.

should be noted that if Shiki cuts any part of Ea's AoE, it should disable all of it. he hit only a single part of Roa's regeneration amplifications embedded into the school and it erased all of it from the entire school.

 

[CrystalValley]

bump

 

[CrystalValley]

bump

 

[Violatas]

Oh hey. Said I'd be away from Melty for awhile but just saw this

Considering the speed gap, + Shiki's ability to "sense his death" + him being able to conceptually destroy Gil's arsenal and abilities, I think he wins more times than not. In character, Gilgamesh (especially his F/SN version) very very likely wouldn't take a scrawny teenager serious unless there's reason to and would realistically open with just firing weapons with GoB. Shiki more times than not would likely close the distance before Gil thinks otherwise, and this will done pretty easily as well to boot.

This version of Gilgamesh has to be the cockiest I've seen btw.

And yeah, Shiki should be able to null EA as well even if Gilgamesh whips it out. By that point, Tohno would likely be extremely close though imo

But yeah voting Shiki

Gil I could see winning if he decides to just fly away before Shiki gets close but I really really don't see that happening

 

[Ethan37]

MB Tohno blitzed Vampire Sion

anyways why Vampire Sion is Ftl??

 

[CrystalValley]

anyways why Vampire Sion is Ftl??

good question. i have no idea why massively hypersonic+ Sion is FTL let alone how supersonic to subsonic Servants are.

well actually it's some gag feats that shouldn't really be treated as canon in the case of MB. but i agreed with the upgrade because if Servants are getting FTL upgrades even though they're realistically supersonic and lower then MB's bar for accepting FTL stuff should be low as hell too.

realistically neither combatants here should be FTL. but it is what it is on here.

anyways, do you have an opinion on who wins based off the profiles?

 

[Ethan37]

good question. i have no idea why massively hypersonic+ Sion is FTL let alone how supersonic to subsonic Servants are.

well actually it's some gag feats that shouldn't really be treated as canon in the case of MB. but i agreed with the upgrade because if Servants are getting FTL upgrades even though they're realistically supersonic and lower then MB's bar for accepting FTL stuff should be low as hell too.

realistically neither combatants here should be FTL. but it is what it is on here.

anyways, do you have an opinion on who wins based off the profiles?

dunno exactly, if Tohno can cut off attacks that easily, shiki won't bother
anyways if yes it can't be all
shiki servant (ryogi, not Tohno) can't cut a giant ghosts because there are too many lines yeah, just think about how big ea is even if it can be cut (IF yes) it can't even cut it all, anyways my point is the one that Ryogi cut was not as big as ea
you cut a Death line using meodp is not one piece = dead, unless it's a dot, but where's a dot in a random area,

anyways, do you have an opinion on who wins based off the profiles?

if we consider Speed Blitzed Tohno as a thing then i guess Tohno should be win this fight easily.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

If Gil wasn't the way he was, I'm fully confident he could win. He'd just have to spam his most haxy attacks while jumping away. But, considering how damn cocky he is, even though I'm not a big Melty buff... Shiki Eyes GG

 

[CrystalValley]

dunno exactly, if Tohno can cut off attacks that easily, shiki won't bother
anyways if yes it can't be all
shiki servant (ryogi, not Tohno) can't cut a giant ghosts because there are too many lines yeah, just think about how big ea is even if it can be cut (IF yes) it can't even cut it all, anyways my point is the one that Ryogi cut was not as big as ea
you cut a Death line using meodp is not one piece = dead, unless it's a dot, but where's a dot in a random area,

if we consider Speed Blitzed Tohno as a thing then i guess Tohno should be win this fight easily.

Tohno's eyes evolve with time and by Melty Blood, it states he can kill concepts beyond human comprehension. his eyes are also 1-A on this website, so they should completely neg Ea. and things have multiple death points anyways. it sounds like i'm arguing for Shiki, but i'm just trying to correct and bring up some things. i likely won't be voting.

 

[Violatas]

Prolly more debatable if Gil is bloodlusted here. In character he absolutely isn't winning more than not.

Anyways, cool to see a Melty character used in these MUs since it rarely happens

 

[CrystalValley]

Prolly more debatable if Gil is bloodlusted here. In character he absolutely isn't winning more than not.

Anyways, cool to see a Melty character used in these MUs since it rarely happens

i was conflicted on how to start this match up because i wasn't entirely sure how MB Tohno's speed would stack up in blitzing Gilgamesh at 4 kilometers. i also saw some people in other threads treating Gilgamesh as not overly cocky in this key for some reason and thought maybe those people would make arguments here. kind of realize that bloodlusted Gil would've been better now though due to the speed gap and 99% to 100% of his hax getting shut down in one form or another. but we've gone too far now to change it. i don't consider it a stomp going off profiles still since Gil has wincons, but a more balanced match would've been him bloodlusted in hindsight, where he could at least have a better chance in the air.

still kind of waiting and hoping those people who argued that Gil won't screw around as much when he knows he's outclassed show up. kind of want them to give their input before grace starts if Tohno gets another vote.

Anyways, cool to see a Melty character used in these MUs since it rarely happens

yeah. tried to mix things up here.

 

[Violatas]

MB Tohno blitzed Vampire Sion. and her normal form can already keep up with Arcueid a bit. not saying Gilgamesh is out of the game though. he's definitely outclassed in speed. but it's Gilgamesh so SNI may factor in and his crazy amount of hax.

To add to this, there's also how Tohno, when his limiters were removed by Sion at the beginning of the Melty Blood manga, was overwhelming Ciel, with him appearing to be too fast for her to really keep up with (also more evidence for him physically being stronk since he wasn't even trying to kill her with his MEoD but that's another matter).

Anywho dunno who'll argue Gilgamesh here. Would be interesting.

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Would Caster Gil be a better matchup just because of Archer Gil's ego? Anyways I'm voting for Shiki.

 

[CrystalValley]

Would Caster Gil be a better matchup just because of Archer Gil's ego? Anyways I'm voting for Shiki.

eh. better off to have it be a bloodlusted Archer Gil. maybe a rematch for another time.

and so we enter grace i believe.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Man.. the SBA took them 4 kilometers apart, why would it be a Blitz, which even their speed gap isn't that significant, what stopped Gilgamesh from spamming his GoB endlessly. I know that Tohno will destroy every noble phantasm, but that's only for the first or two wave, after that he won't be able to keep up with omnidirectional GoB, and Gil has a much longer range.

 

[Ubdon]

Man.. the SBA took them 4 kilometers apart, why would it be a Blitz.

4 km for ftl not really problem and still can give blitz.

Even their speed gap isn't that significant.

Flat Ftl vs combat speed ftl kinda huge difference+GoB probably even slower. And Shiki has better speed chain

What stopped Gilgamesh from spamming his GoB endlessly.

"In character"

I know that Tohno will destroy every noble phantasm, but that's only for the first or two wave, after that he won't be able to keep up with omnidirectional GoB, and Gil has a much longer range.

Gil in character get stomped before 2nd wave*

 

[CrystalValley]

Man.. the SBA took them 4 kilometers apart, why would it be a Blitz, which even their speed gap isn't that significant, what stopped Gilgamesh from spamming his GoB endlessly. I know that Tohno will destroy every noble phantasm, but that's only for the first or two wave, after that he won't be able to keep up with omnidirectional GoB, and Gil has a much longer range.

because he blitzed Vampire Sion and hit her multiple times instantly. and her base self could already keep up with Arcueid. so she should already be faster than Gil to some extent. the 4 kilometers could spice things up maybe. but the speed gap is clearly big. just not Nanaya big or anything.

Tohno has fought Nrvnqsr, who has surrounded him with armies of hostile beasts. GoB being shot all around him is not some game winner automatically nor is something new to him.

at this point it just seems like i'm arguing for Tohno lol. though i'm under the impression he wins based off the profiles now and think i should've made Gil bloodlusted to make it fair in hindsight.