She-Hulk vs Valga Cromwell (Rom)

[Fezzih_007]

he is a war veteran and has fought Wilhelm Van Astrea before who is a skill god. He could fight and take out foot soldiers who should have had relative strength rather easily

I mean, just being a war veteran don't mean much about his fighting prowess without feats. Specially because his profiles states that he just take a stragic role on the war.

And i think you should like wilhelm profile too, because saying he a skill god don't mean much.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I mean, just being a war veteran don't mean much about his fighting prowess without feats. Specially because his profiles states that he just take a stragic role on the war.

And i think you should like wilhelm profile too, because saying he a skill god don't mean much.

cope
defeating Theresia is definetely worthy of being called a skill god with her auto kill move finder

 

[noninho]

Rom FRA

 

[Fezzih_007]

cope
defeating Theresia is definetely worthy of being called a skill god with her auto kill move finder

Yeah sure, i saying more so people who haven't watched the show believe you;

 

[Zabazab]

he is a war veteran and has fought Wilhelm Van Astrea before who is a skill god.

He's not comparable to Wilhelm in any way when it comes to battle. He only fought Wilhelm in his second key which was massively enhanced/transformed by Sphinx's magic. In his first key, Old Man Wilhelm would oblitetate him with a spoon, even if we ignored the AP difference.

If he can take out fodder knights then that's decent skill, since they have formal combat training.

 

[Fezzih_007]

He's not comparable to Wilhelm in any way when it comes to battle. He only fought Wilhelm in his second key which was massively enhanced/transformed by Sphinx's magic. In his first key, Old Man Wilhelm would oblitetate him with a spoon, even if we ignored the AP difference.

If he can take out fodder knights then that's decent skill, since they have formal combat training.

Thanks, i kinda lazy to say this all

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He's not comparable to Wilhelm in any way when it comes to battle. He only fought Wilhelm in his second key which was massively enhanced/transformed by Sphinx's magic. In his first key, Old Man Wilhelm would oblitetate him with a spoon, even if we ignored the AP difference.

If he can take out fodder knights then that's decent skill, since they have formal combat training.

he almost won against young wilhelm who would have died if it wasnt for the backup and they were relative in AP. This means that Valga Cromwell is relative to young wilhelm in terms of skill

 

[Fezzih_007]

he almost won against young wilhelm who would have died if it wasnt for the backup and they were relative in AP. This means that Valga Cromwell is relative to young wilhelm in terms of skill

Ok, you just ignored his whole point about him being enchaced by Sphinx magic lmao.

 

[Zabazab]

he almost won against young wilhelm who would have died if it wasnt for the backup and they were relative in AP. This means that Valga Cromwell is relative to young wilhelm in terms of skill

Have you... read EX2?

If not, I'll just tell you that Wilhelm vs buffed Rom was closer to a "Wilhelm vs the White Whale" than a "Wilhelm vs Theresia". Gaston is very likely more skilled than Rom.

Elsa absolutely fodderized Rom, and she would lose to Old Wilhelm, so Rom is absolutely not comparable to Young Wilhelm.

 

[noninho]

Rom FRA

for some reason, every thread Fezzih's in, OP (including himself) doesn't like to put me in OP as a voter : V

 

[Fezzih_007]

for some reason, every thread Fezzih's in, OP (including himself) doesn't like to put me in OP as a voter : V

Is because his not online right now, relax. Satella forgots to put the votes on the Op a bunch of times.

With you vote, is grace.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

for some reason, every thread Fezzih's in, OP (including himself) doesn't like to put me in OP as a voter : V

i went offline, sorry for keeping you waiting

 

[noninho]

nah, i'm all jokes : )

 

[AThe1412]

I mean it says that he's a skilled strategist but his profile doesn't even have martial arts so I'm too sure if he's that good of a fighter. I'm not well-versed in whatever franchise Valga comes from but for all I know he could've been fighting other people with no skill for 80 years.

I won't talk about this point because Satella already answered it.

Just because She-Hulk lost to another character in a vs thread doesn't mean that she's gonna lose in this one. Also even just taking a quick read through on that thread it's reasoning for the Tyrant winning is pretty flimsy since they assume She-Hulk scales exactly to 0.016 tons of tnt instead of massively upscaling like she actually does.

The AP gap in that match, coincidentally, is also 1.4x (Remembered it wrong, it's 0.02 tons Vs 0.016 tons aka 1.25x which makes it even closer) which as I said earlier is really not that big. The real reason she lost was because the Tyrant had superior LS, piercing damage (Valga has the nails on his bat so that could be useful), and because everyone agreed that She-Hulk couldn't defeat an opponent whose only tactic is to run towards you and try to hit you until you die. This version of the Tyrant is also a prototype that lacks self-preservation. It doesn't even try to block or evade attacks like the newer ones.
(Actually, it does have a feat of deflecting a rocket being shot at it but it only demonstrates this once and doesn't try to defend itself against any other weapons)

 

[Fezzih_007]

I won't talk about this point because Satella already answered it.

But he is kinda wrong trought, Rom is not comparable to the Guy he mentioned.

His kinda right about the defeating some soldiers i guess.

 

[Lacku]

I won't talk about this point because Satella already answered it.

What Satella said about Rom's skill ended up being wrong though, as said above he only scales to fodder knights in skill which is something but still not all that impressive. And by no means does scaling to that mean he's gonna skill-stomp She-Hulk. Not saying that he doesn't have a slight advantage but it's not that great.

The AP gap in that match, coincidentally, is also 1.4x (Remembered it wrong, it's 0.02 tons Vs 0.016 tons aka 1.25x which makes it even closer) which as I said earlier is really not that big.

It's not that the values are close but rather that She-Hulk massively upscales them. I've already said this.

The real reason she lost was because the Tyrant had superior LS, piercing damage (Valga has the nails on his bat so that could be useful)

LS is a fair point and for the Tyrant I can see piercing damage being in it's favour since they're both in the same tier, but trying to say that nails on a bat would be useful against She-Hulk is insane considering how magically enhanced building equipment, industrial saw blades and injection needles have all broke on her skin and left her unharmed.

everyone agreed that She-Hulk couldn't defeat an opponent whose only tactic is to run towards you and try to hit you until you die. This version of the Tyrant is also a prototype that lacks self-preservation. It doesn't even try to block or evade attacks like the newer ones.
(Actually, it does have a feat of deflecting a rocket being shot at it but it only demonstrates this once and doesn't try to defend itself against any other weapons)

This isn't relevant to this vs thread but I don't see why this tactic is seen as some sort of counter to how She-Hulk fights when she could easily just do the same with her superior AP or keep her distance and incap with thunderclaps.

 

[Zabazab]

What Satella said about Rom's skill ended up being wrong though, as said above he only scales to fodder knights in skill which is something but still not all that impressive. And by no means does scaling to that mean he's gonna skill-stomp She-Hulk. Not saying that he doesn't have a slight advantage but it's not that great.

What they said about Rom having comparable skill to Wilhelm van Astrea was wrong, not the rest of it. Fodder knights are fodder by their verse's standards, but they have pretty good skill by irl standards, and could easily beat someone lacking in actual martial skill.

Rom also has the advantage of decades upon decades of experience having to fight for his survival. If She-Hulk really has no combat training, then Rom's upper-hand won't be minor.

but trying to say that nails on a bat would be useful against She-Hulk is insane considering how magically enhanced building equipment, industrial saw blades and injection needles have all broke on her skin and left her unharmed.

Does her skin resist piercing? Or was it just her durability being so much greater? I'm inclined to say they'll pierce her given the club's durability should be the same as Rom's AP, but I'll fold on this if she does resist piercing.

 

[Lacku]

What they said about Rom having comparable skill to Wilhelm van Astrea was wrong, not the rest of it. Fodder knights are fodder by their verse's standards, but they have pretty good skill by irl standards, and could easily beat someone lacking in actual martial skill.

Rom also has the advantage of decades upon decades of experience having to fight for his survival. If She-Hulk really has no combat training, then Rom's upper-hand won't be minor.

This is all fair but I still think he's going to have issues trying to hurt her at all when he's weaker than someone who's fodder to her.

Does her skin resist piercing? Or was it just her durability being so much greater? I'm inclined to say they'll pierce her given the club's durability should be the same as Rom's AP, but I'll fold on this if she does resist piercing.

Yeah in the show it's a big plot point that her skin resists any sort of piercing.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

This is all fair but I still think he's going to have issues trying to hurt her at all when he's weaker than someone who's fodder to her.

the AP difference isnt that big to make a huge difference

Yeah in the show it's a big plot point that her skin resists any sort of piercing.

are you sure it wasnt just marvel hyping up the dura of their of character like normal?

 

[Lacku]

the AP difference isnt that big to make a huge difference

I disagree.

are you sure it wasnt just marvel hyping up the dura of their of character like normal?

I mean it’s not like they were saying in the promo material that she was the strongest ever or anything, her skin being impenetrable is part of a plot point.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I disagree.

1.4x is less of a difference than me and my friend who i can still beat in a fight comfortably.

I mean it’s not like they were saying in the promo material that she was the strongest ever or anything, her skin being impenetrable is part of a plot point.

Being impenetrable against what? Thats a dura feat and she would still be hurt if somebody of comparable strength hit her

 

[AThe1412]

LS is a fair point and for the Tyrant I can see piercing damage being in it's favour since they're both in the same tier, but trying to say that nails on a bat would be useful against She-Hulk is insane considering how magically enhanced building equipment, industrial saw blades and injection needles have all broke on her skin and left her unharmed.

This isn't relevant to this vs thread but I don't see why this tactic is seen as some sort of counter to how She-Hulk fights when she could easily just do the same with her superior AP or keep her distance and incap with thunderclaps.

Regular saw blades and regular needles don't compare to a weapon wielded by a superhuman which has comparable AP and Durability.

It's not supposed to be a counter. It's an example of how She-Hulk failed to defeat an opponent who is literally built to carry out a single command: attack, and not defend against her attacks. Also, she only really spammed Thunderclap when she first learnt about it and I doubt she would have too many chances to use it given that they're fighting indoor, Valga knows the place, AND she prefers melee.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I disagree.

X 1.4 is definitely significant, but it definitely isn't cut and dry. If you know what you're doing and your opponent doesn't, you can definitely overcome a power gap like that.

, her skin being impenetrable is part of a plot point.

Impenetrable against one thing might be fragile against another. Same is true of the common invulnerability thing. People always refer to Superman as invulnerable, but he suddenly stops being "invulnerable" when the guy attacking him is Darkseid or Brainiac.

In real life terms, a character with 9-A durability whose skin is as tough as three inches of steel would be "invulnerable" to any blow a human might land even with vehicles, and "impenetrable" to the knives and needles those humans try using. But when another character comes out with comparable AP, and a spiky club with both the club and the spikes being as durable as that same three inches of steel, then all of a sudden that character isn't "invulnerable" with "impenetrable" skin anymore. It's pretty much always relative.

If the spikes in the club are able to withstand being slammed into things with AP comparable to She-hulk's own and can still cut things, then them cutting her is no impossibility.

 

[Lacku]

Regular saw blades and regular needles don't compare to a weapon wielded by a superhuman which has comparable AP and Durability.

This is fair enough.

It's not supposed to be a counter. It's an example of how She-Hulk failed to defeat an opponent who is literally built to carry out a single command: attack, and not defend against her attacks. Also, she only really spammed Thunderclap when she first learnt about it and I doubt she would have too many chances to use it given that they're fighting indoor, Valga knows the place, AND she prefers melee.

This isn't something that's even conclusively happened though you're just sourcing an outcome from a vs thread which is subjective. Saying that "Character X lost to Y in a thread therefore they must lose to Z" isn't a solid argument.

X 1.4 is definitely significant, but it definitely isn't cut and dry. If you know what you're doing and your opponent doesn't, you can definitely overcome a power gap like that.

It's not just a x1.4 difference between them, if it was I would agree with you, it's that what her AP scales to is far beyond that. It's not going to be totally unfair for Rom but She-Hulk still has a clear advantage in AP, durability and endurance.

Impenetrable against one thing might be fragile against another. Same is true of the common invulnerability thing. People always refer to Superman as invulnerable, but he suddenly stops being "invulnerable" when the guy attacking him is Darkseid or Brainiac.

In real life terms, a character with 9-A durability whose skin is as tough as three inches of steel would be "invulnerable" to any blow a human might land even with vehicles, and "impenetrable" to the knives and needles those humans try using. But when another character comes out with comparable AP, and a spiky club with both the club and the spikes being as durable as that same three inches of steel, then all of a sudden that character isn't "invulnerable" with "impenetrable" skin anymore. It's pretty much always relative.

If the spikes in the club are able to withstand being slammed into things with AP comparable to She-hulk's own and can still cut things, then them cutting her is no impossibility.

This is solid too.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's not just a x1.4 difference between them, if it was I would agree with you, it's that what her AP scales to is far beyond that. It's not going to be totally unfair for Rom but She-Hulk still has a clear advantage in AP, durability and endurance.

It's hard to say how much greater her AP is though. She is stronger than the character whose AP is 1.4 times Rom's, but by how much is unknown.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[AThe1412]

bump

We already reached grace a while ago. Lacku is the only one who opposes Valga winning, though he hasn't voted for either of them.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I was about to say that.

 

[noninho]

This can and should be added to both profiles

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

well i guess i am still feeling off so can somebody else add this?

 

[AThe1412]

well i guess i am still feeling off so can somebody else add this?

Already did.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Is anyone interested in another She-Hulk versus thread?

Or another Re:Zero versus thread?

 

[Lacku]

We already reached grace a while ago. Lacku is the only one who opposes Valga winning, though he hasn't voted for either of them.

I won’t vote since we’re past grace but I’d argue incon is the most accurate outcome

 

[noninho]

I won’t vote since we’re past grace but I’d argue incon is the most accurate outcome

If your argument is good enough, bring it here or lock this one make another thread about the topic...both have the same outcome of talking about it and if it's good enough we change it to Incon in both pages

Long story short, please talk

 

[Lacku]

If your argument is good enough, bring it here or lock this one make another thread about the topic...both have the same outcome of talking about it and if it's good enough we change it to Incon in both pages

Long story short, please talk

Well sure I’ll go ahead and vote incon since Rom is an experienced enough soldier to hold an advantage over She-Hulk but she has her own advantages with AP, durability and LS.

 

[noninho]

Well sure I’ll go ahead and vote incon since Rom is an experienced enough soldier to hold an advantage over She-Hulk but she has her own advantages with AP, durability and LS.

oh, i was waiting for a disvalidation on a side's argument but that's ok ig
i think if Rom is really that skilled as yourself and others have said, he for sure can deal with things more durable and stronger than him....that's the reasonable reason that made me vote him (cuz the other is that i truly hate this character but anyway)