Servant Stat Scaling

[GalaxianAegis]

@SwagPack Alright cool, I'll get one up involving it soon.

 

[Promestein]

Okay it's been a while for this.

I don't think it's all that necessary to write down all the specific changes for every character (also, I don't want to). Most characters, like Nero and Tamamo, should be boosted to "At least 7-B, higher with (Noble Phantasm)". Whoever's fine with helping me revise the pages can use their discretion on a case-by-case basis, and discuss anything that they're unsure of here.

There's a few trickier ones, like Karna;

Karna:

• Attack Potency: Mountain level (See current reasoning), blah blah blah with his Noble Phantasms
• Durability: Mountain level, much higher with Kavacha and Kundala

Karna's special durability has always been because of Kavacha and Kundala, when I was talking about downgrading his durability to Mountain level I was talking about his physical durability, which needs to be listed.

And the other "Top Servants" or whatever;

Arjuna:

• Attack Potency: Mountain level (Comparable to the likes of Berserker, casually shot down Billy the Kid's Noble Phantasm), higher with released Gandiva, at least Country level with Pashupata (Can annihilate 28 Demon Pillars at once while using his minimum effective range)
• Durability: Mountain level

C├║ Alter:

• Attack Potency: Mountain level (Comparable to the likes of Berserker), higher with Curruid Coinchenn, much higher with G├íe Bolg (Pierced Kavacha and Kundala and lethally injured Karna)
• Durability: Mountain level, higher with Curruid Coinchenn

No country level feats. I'm not the biggest fan of that scaling, not 100% supported.

Scáthach:

• Attack Potency: At least City level (Should be at least comparable to other Servants), much higher with G├íe Bolg Alternative (Matched C├║ Alter's G├íe Bolg, which can pierce Kavacha and Kundala).
• Durability: At least City level

The rest are fine from what I know. Give input, thanks. I understand that downgrading Cu Alter and Scathach is probably not gonna be popular, but I'd rather we have more concrete evidence than "they're on the same level" in a verse where destructive power is not the most important thing.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Mashu wasn't sure if she could block super gae bolg with Lord Chaldeas and even Merlin thought it was neccecary to step in and stop it. And so far until that point Mashu has successfully blocked attacks from demon gods, Excalibur Morgan and Photon Ray. So I would say at least island level for both Gae Bolgs.

 

[Promestein]

That's fine with me! Thanks for that.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ramesses

I just finished Septem, and the narrative stated that Mashu wouldn't have been able to block Photon Ray without Bouddica's help.

 

[Promestein]

Well, there's still the blocking attacks from Demon Gods thing.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't have any problems with the other suggestions though.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Reppu Guess I forgot that. Altera gets a at least Island level rating as well then. IIRC she used the anti fortress version so she should probably be at least Island level with Teardrop Photon Ray.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

We should give Artoria a higher rating with Excalibur. In her second interlude she reveals that Excalibur posses multiple oaths on it similarly to Excalibur Proto. She also states that she has never used it at full power. I think she should get something like higher with oaths fulfilled or something.

 

[Promestein]

Also, as for the Demon Gods... why are they Country level anyways? Tanking Excalibur should just be "At least High 7-A" or 6-C.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

What AP will Assasin be? IIRC he traded blows with Saber

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Scathach has that she survived Solomon's NP on her profile. Is this being seen as by virtue of her Immortality or just disregarded?

 

[Promestein]

Assassin was already addressed; he's at least City level, though on the lower level of it.

It should just be taken as because of her Immortality.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Prom

Good point, I guess it was because of the fact that they were only seen being one-shotted by an Anti-Country NP.

 

[Promestein]

Okay. I'd like some more input from some other users before starting this, and I'd appreciate help in revising the profiles. It'd be good to split them into sections to work on one at a time.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Promestein, good job with the revisions.

So, how are we going to treat the Demon Gods? And Gae Bolgs will be downgraded to Island level from Country level?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Scathach did kill random divine spirits could be because she has been implied to have another form. So she should get a likely higher rating because she killed divine spirits.

They tanked Tesla's noble phantasm which is EX ranked and an attack from Edison. They only managed to destroy it once they used their noble phantasms at the same time, both of which are EX. I think that justifies a 6-C rating.

 

[Promestein]

Thank you.

I'm fine with that.

Yeah, 6-C Demon Gods seems fine.

Gae Bolgs will be Island level.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

That seems fine by me.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Some of their internal mechanics ignore durability anyways, and I'm fine with the proposed changes for the Demon Gods and Gae Bolgs.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

If we're talking about Demon Gods, i'm fine with Clan Calatin being Island level. Individual Demon Pillars though? No way. Mashu soloe'd Flauros at the beggining of Salomon, and in that same chapter, a bunch of Servants were absolutely massacring multiple Demon Pillars at the same time, over and over and over again without using their NPs. IIRC, the only NPs used were Drake's, Blackbeard's and Altera's. And regardless, the vast majority of them don't have Mountain level NPs to begin with. In the CCC event, Gawain and Meltlilith (and possibly Tamacat, i don't remember if she was with them) defeated a weakened Demon Pillar without using any NPs. Really, the only basis for Island level Demon Gods is a composite of 28 of them survivng a combination attack from Edison and Tesla, that was twenty eight, not one. That feat shouldn't scale to anyone, except maybe King Hassan, since he killed eleven of Tiamat's elite Lahmus that were explicitly stated to be stronger than a Demon God, but even that feels kinda like reaching tbh.

I haven't started Septem on NA yet, but from what i remember of the Japanese version, Altera was buffed by the Grail, wasn't she?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

....so wait, the Demon Pillars alone are that weak by themselves?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

They're far stronger than your average Servant, but they lose to small groups literally every time they show up.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh okay. Sry, that's what i meant by that.

But damn, seriously though...

 

[Promestein]

We can just make the Demon Gods 7-A or something then?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Altera was becoming one with the grail or something. My mistake I forgot that the Demon God was a composite and that it actually survived Tesla's and Edison's noble phantasms. Been a while since I read America sorry for the misinformation.

I think that the Demon Gods would be 7-A. Gae Bolgs would be At least High 7-A due to Merlin steeping in and the fact Mashu wasn't sure if she could block it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that could work.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah that's fine with me.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

That works, yeah.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Since basically all our servant profiles are scaled to the Stay Night/Zero servants should they also be upgraded? Because otherwise we get things like Nero is At least town level because she has strength comparable to Archer who is At least City level.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

It also impacts some other characters like Ciel and other Dead Apostle Ancestors as well.

 

[Reppuzan]

So what happens to Powered Ciel and the Dead Apostle Ancestors?

I'm totally free now, so I can help out with any revisions.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

They should at least scale to Archer Emiya.

 

[Promestein]

Yes, (virtually) all the Servants scale to Archer and will be "At least City level", such as, yes, Nero.

With the Tsukihime downgrades, Ciel will just be "At least 9-B, likely higher, at least 7-B, likely higher with Roa's magic". Powered Ciel's just straight-up At least 7-B, likely higher. Dead Apostle Ancestors scale to 7-B.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

When can we start revising the profiles?

 

[Promestein]

Give me some time, we'll need to split things up and decide on how we're going about this. There's a lot of pages to revise.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Prom: Are we only affecting the ones from the...ones that you suggest are needed to be changed or are the FGO pages and other Nasu pages (that somehow in a way are scaled to each other?) also being affected?

 

[Promestein]

All the pages will be affected.

And yeah, they're scaled to each other because it's the same continuity even if it's separate settings. (Tsukihime has like no feats anyways).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oooooooooooooh.......mmmmmmmmrrrrrrrrr, yeah that's gonna require like 3-4 more hands to help out on that one if it's the whole verse of Nasu then.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Alright, I can revise the Apocrypha profiles and Berserker, Rider, Caster and Archer Fate/GO profiles.