Serious problems with Maou Gakuin verse (Not a Downgrade or Upgrade CRT)

[Guileal]

This CRT will be about the issue of verse translations and it is not about mistranslations.


So lately the back side has been targeted by downgrading CRT's since it was rebuilt into the LN version. And the supporters cannot defend themselves because they think they are limited to using official LN scans and the downgraders are taking advantage of this so that their CRT's are approved regardless of whether they are right or not.


Well, firstly that all this happened after ImmortalDread created this CRT to reform the verse because there were many things wrong due to computer translations that were obviously wrong. The CRT was never about using only the English version. However it was also Dread's mistake not to have updated in the thread that consistent fan translations could also be used as discussed in the comments.


You can say "but the thread said that only official material could be used" well, LightNovel is official material, not the person who translates it that makes it official, so if a fan is translating the LN it won't make it ceases to be official, it just changes the person who is translating. If we consider only using official material released by big companies on the wikia I bet there wouldn't be 100 pages left in the entire VSBW, so I ask you, why does Maou Gakuin have to be different and only verse supporters are limited to that?


So I have some suggestions to change that, basically 3.

1st: We will release to use manual fan translations to reconstruct the verse, not least because the problem why the verse was demolished was never because it was about official materials, but rather because it was done almost entirely by machine translations and MTL, however that would end generating lots and lots of upgrade CRT's and would end up tiring the staff members (although they like the downgrade CRT's and approve them instantly), so we would limit ourselves to creating one CRT per LN volume, since the work has just over 13, the supporters are many, so they can come together and create this together and it would end up not having many CRT's.

2nd: We will release the fan translations to be used in debates as a basis for an argument for CRT's being about the verse, it's undeniable that the verse is being overloaded with downgrades and the supporters can't even argue because something they need is there in a later volume, and this volume will only be released in English for months or even years and downgraders take advantage of this so that their CRT's are approved regardless of whether they are right or wrong, let's take the example of Downgrade MFTL+, this downgrade does not affect only the Anos speed but also all the calculations and tiers of the verse that were linked to the fact that a character has SoL speed that the downgrades reject only because in such volume the character did not demonstrate that speed, this CRT will be approved precisely because the base argument of supporters is a volume away that will be released after a long time.

3rd: Just nuke the verse and let several volumes translated into English accumulate so you have more basis for argument, obviously this will be a problem because it will take several years, taking into account that a single volume releases every 4-6 months and you will probably you won't even be interested in it anymore.

@Accepted Suggestion 1: @BoastJr, @EldemadeDityjon, @AbaddonTheDisappointment, @Godsatoshi23, @Nexp06, @Testarossa002, @Angelzewolf, @Reiner

Accepted Suggestion 2: @PrinceofPein , @Deagonx , @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara

Accepted Suggestion 3: @ImmortalDread

 

[BoastJr]

1) I do not know the reason why you are assuming Maou Gakuin is being treated unfairly as if everyone has spite against it. You are making this seem like there is some propaganda against it

2) Any human translation done by a competant translator is ok in my opinion as long as the translations are consistanly correct

I will not comment beyond this

 

[Robo432343]

What gets uglier when you see that the people doing the Downgrades clearly hate the verse or want to piss off their supporters and then if the supporters respond they are branded toxic and consequently the verse ends up suffering more hate.

wild accusation right there
i recommend deleting this part

 

[Guileal]

wild accusation right there
i recommend deleting this part

Certain, although it is a fact :v

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well there were some abilities removed without a Downgrade thread. I do think regarding some bad faith and treatment towards MGK verse. I am not going comment anything else knowing people really don't care if something like this bad happened to MGK especially when opposition party gets special treatment from Staffs.

1) I do not know the reason why you are assuming Maou Gakuin is being treated unfairly as if everyone has spite against it. You are making this seem like there is some propaganda against it

Well we have went back and forth regarding this in RVR still none was able to show the proof for where the removal of certain abilities were accepted and it was put under the table as nothing big.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

As long as the fan translations themselves are from a credible source and not some machine translation as it was previously, using the light novel should be fine as long as whoever translated it is credited/identified so it doesn’t become a “bro trust me my friend who’s fluent in Japanese translated it” moment

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I agree with the suggestion of adding fan translation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The official translation should take precedent, unless there is a glaring mistranslation. Also, this feels a little spiteful due to the accusations being thrown around.

 

[Guileal]

why? the OP himself said that fan translations could be used, and this happens not only with Maou Gakuin but practically all VSB profiles, why should Maou Gakuin be an exception?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yes, they can be used, so long as they include only the light novels that have been officially translated so far, so we have a point of comparison. If you can't agree to that, then I disagree with the thread.

 

[Guileal]

Yes, they can be used, so long as they include only the light novels that have been officially translated so far, so we have a point of comparison. If you can't agree to that, then I disagree with the thread.

there is no official translation, the official material is the LN itself

 

[Guileal]

if several people translate the LN it will not make it stop being official

 

[Deagonx]

The thread you linked by Dread says that only official translations of the LN are to be used. It says this repeatedly, in fact:

To address this issue, it has been decided that henceforth only official translations will be utilized. Furthermore, in order to ensure greater consistency and accuracy in our character profiles, we shall now be basing them on the LN instead.

 

[Guileal]

what we need is a readable and consistent translation, regardless of who translated it for, this is why the verse was deleted

 

[Guileal]

read the CRT again, it clearly said fan translation can be used if consistent, I literally attached this at the beginning of the thread

The thread you linked by Dread says that only official translations of the LN are to be used. It says this repeatedly, in fact:

 

[Deagonx]

people really don't care if something like this bad happened to MGK especially when opposition party gets special treatment from Staffs.

Well we have went back and forth regarding this in RVR still none was able to show the proof for where the removal of certain abilities were accepted and it was put under the table as nothing big.

Do not use this thread to stir up past drama again.

read the CRT again, it clearly said fan translation can be used if consistent, I literally attached this at the beginning of the thread

The postimg link you provided gives me a 502 error. Can you link me to the comment or quote the phrase you believe supports this?

 

[Guileal]

One moment

 

[Guileal]

Do not use this thread to stir up past drama again.


The postimg link you provided gives me a 502 error. Can you link me to the comment or quote the phrase you believe supports this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/mg-verse-deletion-request.151317/post-5594571

https://vsbattles.com/threads/mg-verse-deletion-request.151317/post-5594539

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Fixxed come here. You probably would like it.

 

[Deagonx]

Okay, was that accepted by staff?

Also, where is the thread in which it was initially discussed and accepted by staff that LN translations were to be used?

 

[Guileal]

Okay, was that accepted by staff?

Also, where is the thread in which it was initially discussed and accepted by staff that LN translations were to be used?

that's why I said that Dread made the mistake of not putting what we discussed in the thread and that's why I created this CRT

Anyway all of vsb uses fan translation for their profiles, why would Maou Gakuin have to be the exception if the translations are consistent?

 

[Deagonx]

Anyway all of vsb uses fan translation for their profiles, why would Maou Gakuin have to be the exception if the translations are consistent?

Because MG is an extremely volatile verse and this was imposed as a counter-measure to that, to limit the amount of circular bickering about raws and translation disagreements.

 

[Guileal]

Because MG is an extremely volatile verse and this was imposed as a counter-measure to that, to limit the amount of circular bickering about raws and translation disagreements.

this happens precisely because of the fact that things from WN were mixed with LN in the profiles, when clearly the writing between the 2 had some differences, apart from the fact that they used MTL and computer translation for the translations, as already mentioned, different from the case that I am citing that it is translated manually

 

[Guileal]

you can simply take the "Official" translation and compare it with a fan translation, you will see minimal if not zero differences between both, the one that understands the work's context better and is more consistent should be used

 

[Deagonx]

the one that understands the work's context better and is more consistent should be used

That's what I'm saying though, the notion of which one "understands the work's context better" and "is more consistent" is a can of worms that is probably best left unopened.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's what I'm saying though, the notion of which one "understands the work's context better" and "is more consistent" is a can of worms that is probably best left unopened.

You people were literally using FTL for Fate Downgrade what so different from MGK using same thing. We can ask the same Translator to check the translation especially chase also started reading MGK.

 

[Guileal]

That's what I'm saying though, the notion of which one "understands the work's context better" and "is more consistent" is a can of worms that is probably best left unopened.

if the consistency is following the logical line of previous events then it can be used, also because Japanese is a very complex language because of the kanjis, both the official and fan translations will always both have some errors, no one can translate perfectly

 

[Deagonx]

You people were literally using FTL for Fate Downgrade what so different from MGK using same thing

I already answered the question of why MGK is being treated exceptionally in this regard.

Anyways, I've made my view clear on the subject, so its best not to go in circles and wait for other staff to offer their input.

 

[Guileal]

I already answered the question of why MGK is being treated exceptionally in this regard.

Anyways, I've made my view clear on the subject, so its best not to go in circles and wait for other staff to offer their input.

Could you tag some staff members here?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Could you tag some staff members here?

Just ask Ant.

 

[Georredannea15]

read the CRT again, it clearly said fan translation can be used if consistent, I literally attached this at the beginning of the thread

If there is no mistake in the translation, yes you can use it. But if there is the slightest translation error, it will be a problem. Because the rest of WN can have these translation errors as well.

Anyway, LN and WN progress similarly and are affiliated with Anime. But since LN uses a official translation, scaling with LN is much healthier.

Of course, the official translation of this LN is a very long process. Until then, it is not even clear whether the standards will remain the same.

But these guys are more knowledgeable about translation and MG than me.

 

[Guileal]

If there is no mistake in the translation, yes you can use it. But if there is the slightest translation error, it will be a problem. Because the rest of WN can have these translation errors as well.

Anyway, LN and WN progress similarly and are affiliated with Anime. But since LN uses a official translation, scaling with LN is much healthier.

Of course, the official translation of this LN is a very long process. Until then, it is not even clear whether the standards will remain the same.

But these guys are more knowledgeable about translation and MG than me.

but it's the LN I'm referring to, the WN is just the author's draft and will always be less detailed than the LN which is the improved and official version

 

[Georredannea15]

but it's the LN I'm referring to, the WN is just the author's draft and will always be less detailed than the LN which is the improved and official version

But the problem here is that there is an error in the WN translation, if there were no errors, no one would have removed it anyway. Because of the translation error, MG supporters were unable to offer any more counter-arguments to the 2-A rebuttal arguments.

 

[Guileal]

Just ask Ant.

I did

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I did

Drop a Message to DDM , Lord Griffith and Elizha also. They would probably reply.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Evidently I missed a lot, but I agree with Deagon.

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah, you know i have some problem with our current LN "official" translation that we use right now. I read that and found some misstranslation

Because that i become lazy for make some upgrade or join the discussion about MGF right now

 

[Fixxed]

But the problem here is that there is an error in the WN translation, if there were no errors, no one would have removed it anyway. Because of the translation error, MG supporters were unable to offer any more counter-arguments to the 2-A rebuttal arguments.

Bruh... you can read the thread again, the translation in scan is correct, firstly they give false translation and say it "infinitely" and the next they translate it again and it same like what the translation in the scan say

The 2A is not about translation, but about the possobility or future

 

[Georredannea15]

Bruh... you can read the thread again, the translation in scan is correct, firstly they give false translation and say it "infinitely" and the next they translate it again and it same like what the translation in the scan say

The 2A is not about translation, but about the possobility or future

Hell no You can't be serious

 

[Fixxed]

Hell no You can't be serious

Bruh.... even i can say our old translation is more clear than the current