SCP-682 VS Kamijou Touma

[Zhaoshuais]

Considering Touma's faster precog,dodging is not a good idea.

I believe SCP-682 would attempt to evolve,but its evolve ability is already supernatural,so any result of its evolution can also be IBed,that's different from its other opponents.

Of course,if SCP-682 does not know Touma's ability,it may attempt to cut off Touma's right arm and absorb it,then everyone knows what will happen.

 

[Andykhang]

^SCP-682 get nomed by the Dragon?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Pretty sure Acausality nulifies Precog and being torn apart by a dragon wouldnt kill 682

 

[GreatestSin]

Considering Touma's faster precog,dodging is not a good idea.
I believe SCP-682 would attempt to evolve,but its evolve ability is already supernatural,so any result of its evolution can also be IBed,that's different from its other opponents.

Of course,if SCP-682 does not know Touma's ability,it may attempt to cut off Touma's right arm and absorb it,then everyone knows what will happen.

even if touma has faster precog, he is to fast for touma to catch up to

what is with a finished-evolution? is his changed form also supernatural? otherwise IB could only stop SCP while the change happens not after its finished...

like weekly said, the dragon wont be able to kill SCP...

 

[LazyHunter]

I don't think what's inside Touma's right hand should be used in matches until we know more about what it is and what it is capable of, it's basically the same situation with Aiwass: we know they are strong, but not exactly how much. I think we even know more about Aiwass and its powers that we do about IT/Dragons.

This is still a stomp though, last NT volume was basically this with much weaker monsters and Touma almost died several times. Not to mention that with Elements Touma knew he could OHKO them by touching them with IB.

@WeeklyBattles

Touma's precog is not supernatural precog, it's more about Touma's instincts and skill letting him predict enemy actions and timings, so I don't know if Acausality would stop that.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

If you only consider battle progress,Touma always seems to be in danger,even against weaker opponents,but if we consider result,that is,Touma always win at last,no matter how strong the opponents are.That's his hard luck,always suffer great pain,but always come back from that.

 

[GreatestSin]

^and through other circumstances and help from others so it most of the time cant be used for direct strength comparison...

 

[LazyHunter]

@Zhaoshuais

Touma totally doesn't always win, that's why I laugh at people who call him a Gary Stu. You only need to take a look at the first volume, who has three fights, to see how most of his fights go in the series:

1) Touma vs Stiyl: Touma initially surprises Stiyl with his IB, but that's immediately countered by Stiyl's Innocentius, which IB can't fully destroy as it regenerates from the runes. So the first battle on the series is also the first time Touma's power is not enough to win, that was quick. Touma wins through smarts.

2) Touma vs Kanzaki: Touma gets stomped, hard. The most he manages is to get a punch in a distracted Kanzaki which doesn't really do much (in the anime he doesn't even manage that). So Touma loses his second fight of the series pretty hard. That didn't take long.

3) Touma vs Index: Touma's IB is stalemated by Index's Dragon's Breath, which is slowly damaging his right hand. He "wins" thanks to Stiyl and Kanzaki's help. So he already needed help from allies to win his third fight.

So yeah, it's not that Touma "seems" to be in danger from weaker opponent; he's in danger from weaker opponents, sometimes even more than from strong magicians, esper. Remember that the people who have defeated Touma include the "powerless" American special forces, which in other LNs of this genre would get slaughtered by the MC to prove how useless they are/how strong the MC is. You continously overestimate/underestimate certain Toaru characters, which leads me to believe you might not be looking at the stats of the two fighters before you make the match and going by how strong you believe them to be. You should always check their stats to avoid making stomp matchs like this on accident.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

@Zhaoshuais
Touma totally doesn't always win, that's why I laugh at people who call him a Gary Stu. You only need to take a look at the first volume, who has three fights, to see how most of his fights go in the series:

1) Touma vs Stiyl: Touma initially surprises Stiyl with his IB, but that's immediately countered by Stiyl's Innocentius, which IB can't fully destroy as it regenerates from the runes. So the first battle on the series is also the first time Touma's power is not enough to win, that was quick. Touma wins through smarts.

2) Touma vs Kanzaki: Touma gets stomped, hard. The most he manages is to get a punch in a distracted Kanzaki which doesn't really do much (in the anime he doesn't even manage that). So Touma loses his second fight of the series pretty hard. That didn't take long.

3) Touma vs Index: Touma's IB is stalemated by Index's Dragon's Breath, which is slowly damaging his right hand. He "wins" thanks to Stiyl and Kanzaki's help. So he already needed help from allies to win his third fight.

So yeah, it's not that Touma "seems" to be in danger from weaker opponent; he's in danger from weaker opponents, sometimes even more than from strong magicians, esper. Remember that the people who have defeated Touma include the "powerless" American special forces, which in other LNs of this genre would get slaughtered by the MC to prove how useless they are/how strong the MC is. You continously overestimate/underestimate certain Toaru characters, which leads me to believe you might not be looking at the stats of the two fighters before you make the match and going by how strong you believe them to be. You should always check their stats to avoid making stomp matchs like this on accident.

Yes,Touma may suffer tactical defeats,but at strategy level,you will find out that he always win at last.Touma may stomped hard by some characters,but none of them believes Touma is weaker than them.Instead,Touma is respected by almost all these characters in To Aru,including Kaori,Acqua,Thor,Othinus,and so on,as Touma achieved what they believe they can not achieve,or impossible.

That's why I always consider Touma as higher than saints and lv5 espers,although seems weaker,he can always beat the odds,overcome impossible,and bring back victory.Yes,he was stomped hard by Kaori and Acqua,but he comes back from Fiamma of the Right and Othinus with victory,which those saints see as miracle.

So if an opponent can be defeated by saints or lv5 espers,it doesn't need to VS Touma,as his friend will solve that for him.Touma is for the most difficult,almost impossible tasks.

 

[LazyHunter]

The "strategy level" that you claim doesn't exist. Touma is focused on the small picture rather than thinking big, it was a big part of his discussion with Fiamma and the reason Fiamma failed. What you are talking about is the genre conventions of "the hero will ultimately defeat the villain" or "there will be a happy end". Those have no value in vs matches like this. Some strong characters do hold respect for Touma, but what you're missing is that they do not respect him because of his strength or power, but because of his convictions and heroic nature.

This is not the place to discuss that kind of thing though, so if you want to keep talking about this you can post in my message wall.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Yeah guys it's red herring city over here.

Anyway I'm gonna vote Touma here since 682's adaptive abilities are supernatural.

 

[GreatestSin]

^but aside from adaptive abilitys (which require touma to touch SCP which is rather hard since SCP is superhuman in speed while touma is peak human+ (and SCP has limitless stamina) and SCPs speed only get faster with adaptation: up to speed of light) there are still other abilitys SCP has:

Regenerationn (At least High, likely Low-Godly, stated by Dr. Gears that physical damage is irrelevant to it), Cannot be effectively harmed the same way twice, Ingenious intelligence, Immune to reality warping, crystallization, mind control, absorption, incineration, radiation, soul manipulation (Due to lacking a soul), fear, possession, matter manipulation on a subatomic level, plot manipulation, and biological manipulation from anything besides itself, Can die and revive at will, Can become two separate entities if split into equal pieces, Can change its biological makeup from organic to inorganic at will, Can create localized space-time anomalies as a defense mechanism (These anomalies are similar to both the sudden appearance and disappearance of a black hole or the theoretical event of a sudden hole forming between our dimension and another), Power absorption, Can enter a "Rage State" where it blindly attacks the closest living target, Dimensional travel, Size Manipulation, Shapeshifting (Its physical form is in a constant state of change and can grow and change very quickly to adapt to various scenarios, Has grown wings, spikes, extra eyes with bulletproof eye caps, large claws, and an anteater-like tongue), Telekinesis, Non-Corporeal (Described as coming from somewhere where time, space and states of matter operate very differently than they do normally, and that 682 as we know it isn't a corporeal being), Acausality

 

[LazyHunter]

Seriously, supernatural doesn't mean that Touma wins, 682 is still very superior to Touma in physical stats, so this is a stomp, even if we assume IB works.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

^ Yeah but most of them are anomalous, the only abilities that could be could be considered natural are its intelligence.

Its speed is interesting and could net 682 a win but as soon as 682 comes close all of its anomalous abilities are lost, and Touma is able to kill it with relative ease.

 

[GreatestSin]

^not close, touma must touch SCP with his hand, that isnt easy if the enemy moves at SoL while the attacker is peak human+ with MHS+ reaction speed, like lazy said, this is a stomp...

 

[LazyHunter]

A Class 1 Element is a supernatural creature that we know is OHKO by IB. Touma still thinks that it will easily kill him if he screws up. A Class 2 Element blindsided put Touma in critical condition, and would have killed him if it wasn't for his classmates distracting it. SCP-682 would destroy Touma

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Oh ok yeah, I forgot that 682 could alter its speed. My vote changes to the Hard-to-kill Reptile.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

682 should be slower than Birdway,maybe even slower than Mikoto,so I don't see speed as much problem. It seems that 682 has to know Touma's ability,then it know to evade IB.But if it doesn't know and choose attack as normal,then Touma can easily find a chance to IB in melee. And if 682 know all Touma's ability,then we have to discuss what is in his right hand and why he alway survive.Strangely,none of the magic gods believe Touma can be killed easily,so the result may be 682's escape,but that is considered as lose.

I have to point out that none of the magic gods believes Othinus can really defeat Touma,and all choosed to wait for Touma's victory.What does that mean?I beleive undet his weak status surface,a very high real Tier may hidden in the IB,maybe Tier2 or above.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

^ If you want to discuss upgrades for Touma, this is by no means the place to be doing it.

 

[Andykhang]

True, and even if this hand hide that amount of power, no way in hell that thing's going to ignore that.Then either it would eat it, or avoid it entirely and pound him to incapacitated.

 

[GreatestSin]

It seems that 682 has to know Touma's ability,then it know to evade IB.But if it doesn't know and choose attack as normal,then Touma can easily find a chance to IB in melee.

even if SCP lets himself get killed it wont make a difference since he can revive himself at will...

 

[Zhaoshuais]

True, and even if this hand hide that amount of power, no way in hell that thing's going to ignore that.Then either it would eat it, or avoid it entirely and pound him to incapacitated.

If 682 know the hidden power of IB,i believe it would aviod the battle,such as escape.

Of course,Aleister Crowley knows that,but it's clear that he believes Touma is unbeatable in practise,as no matter who is Touma's opponent,he always believe Touma can be back(if not,his plan would be broken,but it seems he does not worry at all!)

 

[HalfAsianFan]

^ Not necessarily though, it'll probably just realise the threat and remove it quickly.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

If the threat can be removed then Aleister would not send Touma to face a lot of horrible opponents.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

@Zhao you're bringing up a LOT of red herrings here I feel.

By removing the threat I meant destroying Touma as quickly as it can.