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Scaling AP to Striking Strength

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They did that feat as teenagers when they were weaker, too. And again, Artemis is in a nerfed physical form, and does that feat immediately after being wounded as a battle. To say that that doesn't scale to the Striking Strength of even Zeus is crazy.
 
By the way, Super Perfect Cell is getting a downgrade if this goes through. SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha vaporized him.
 
By the way, this isn't to say that the OP doesn't have a point. I agree with him that we shouldn't automatically scale Striking Strength and Durability to the Attack Potency every time. I recently had to clean the Supernatural profiles because everyone's Striking Strength was scaled to their Attack Potency, when everyone who knows the series can realize that that ain't the case.
 
Breathing?

Anyway I think what Matthew said makes sense, but we should change the justification on their profiles.

Btw I am not suggesting Zeus's strength is vastly below his island creation, Superman has a Country level feat after all.
 
How does breathing and thoughts correlate to physical capacity?

Sounds like reality warping / magic / telekinesis.
 
After Zoe dies, Artemis takes a bit of dust and then blows a little
 
IIRC she didn't do it by breathing, she said something like "rest in the stars" or something liddat and changed the luminosity of the stars to "create" a constellation.
 
Unite My Rice said:
How does breathing and thoughts correlate to physical capacity?
Sounds like reality warping / magic / telekinesis.
Click to expand...
The gods use "magic" for all of their feats, though? They just have inherent powers and control over aspects of reality as a consequence of being a god. They are perfectly capable of like, breathing and "creating" a constellation, or waving a hand and ******* up the weather badly, or vaporizing you with a thought.

But outside of Zeus' Master Bolt, said abilities are never portrayed as being all that useful when they fight against beings of comparable power. In the actual books, we get glimpses of the gods' battle against Typhon, in which they just fly around the giant monstrosity, hurling energy attacks and lounging themselves for physical strikes. In Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, their fight with the Titans is much the same thing.

They aren't John Constantine who has impressive magic but can't throw a punch for shit.
 
I actually calced Zeus's Master Bolt to be 5-B based on the "make hydrogen bombs look like firecrackers" quote but it was considered hyperbole.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I actually calced Zeus's Master Bolt to be 5-B based on the "make hydrogen bombs look like firecrackers" quote but it was considered hyperbole.
Click to expand...
I mean considering some feats from Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, and what both Ra and Odin can do 5-B Master Bolt is probably not outlandish?
 
Child Franklin Richards has tier 2 power but according to his profile appears to have normal human durability without them.
 
Yes, he's the textbook example of the "Little Kid with insane cosmic powers" trope. Probably helped codify it, too. One of his most famous feats is accidentaly creating a universe while playing with his room. The boy barely understands his powers, and has even less control over them.

Adult Franklin Richards who has actual control of his powers has no such issue, however.
 
Just realized, how is Artemis tier 5 for creating a constellation, which if I'm correct, is a group of stars?
 
Unite My Rice said:
Just realized, how is Artemis tier 5 for creating a constellation, which if I'm correct, is a group of stars?
Click to expand...
She raised the luminosity of stars that were like invisible to the naked eye to the point where they became one of the brightest in the sky.
 
This thread is starting to derail, so let's get back to topic.

So conclusion:

Storm feats/Creation feats etc do not scale to physical strength, unless it is effortlessly done (breathing, thinking) or caused by physical force (slamming the ground)

What we have to do now:

Change the justification for ones that do scale to physical strength, like Zeus (DCEU) or Artemis (Riordan).

Change the striking strength and durability for those who do not scale to unknown or whatever.
 
What if the character who did the storm/creation feat transforms into a much stronger form later on? Would the stronger form scale?
 
I think that Matthew makes sense.

In any case, we need to wait for more responses. We cannot settle what to do about this kind of potentially massive task in just 4-5 hours.

Also, we would need to decide where to place the new information for whatever we ultimately decide. Would the Standard Storm calculations page be appropriate?

In addition, I am not sure if we should truly make this into a wiki project, or just let our members gradually update profiles as they find them.
 
Well, I am personally leaning towards not making this into a wiki project. It likely wouldn't be worth the effort to search through 15000 profiles, and Assaltwaffle's tier borders revision project is prioritised anyway.
 
I personally agree that there needs to be some form of distinguishment between how Attack Potency, Durability and Striking Strenght interact with each other.

If you are performing a feat solely based on magical/energy and this feat gets assigned a certain tier, automatically scaling this AP to your striking strenght feels off.

If a person who got hit with your feat overcomes it and lands a hit on you, which you endure as well, an indicator for a certain level of bodily durability was given, hence the tiering would be validatet.

-

I agree making this a wiki project as we have been very lax regarding this matter.
 
I thought this was already the rule?

Storms, explosions etc scale to AP, but you need evidence to say that they scale to SS.

For example if you injure a character who can withstand your attacks that aren't punches with physical blows, then your SS = your AP.
 
I also agree that Matt makes sense here. While I do see some good points in the OP, it is preferably not to over complicate things; and there is still a case by case scenario. While I understand the weather manipulation or magic feats shouldn't always scale to striking strength or durability unless there's in depth proof, I'm still certain about Ki based attacks scaling to durability at least. Newton's Third Law still applies to Boros collapsing Roar Cannon or Kamehameha's among other things, so I'm pretty sure durability should still scale. So IMO, I don't think any Dragon Ball character needs to have durability or striking strength downgraded; especially not durability. I still think Teen Gohan being stronger then Cell is the better assumption. Boros, not sure about striking strength, that could get a slight downgrade, but his durability is legit Planet level. He briefly survived his own Roar Cannon, in addition to Newton's Third Law still existing.

Fire Emblem for example, much of the characters scale to my Meteor Calc, in which every playable can legit tank, to it scales to everyone's durability, but all the mages just have Unknow for striking strength, since they don't physically attack their foes. Though, Weapon wielders are Town level physically regardless. So I think that verse is looking good. Another thing is that, if a storm feat is caused by a flying beast flapping their wings to create hurricanes or tornadoes, then that does sound like a striking strength feat as well. I also know every elemental bending technique in Avatar is done using a martial arts technique, so I guess that counts as striking strength?

Characters such as Doctor Strange (Classic) and Alex Russo are obviously glass cannons though. Since they're pretty much just all magic and little to no physical strength or toughness. Albeit, the former has barriers that can enhance durability.

Edit: I'll also need to sleep now, and I'm going to be busy with RL work the next couple of days.
 
I think that Medeus makes sense as well.

@Kaltias

I think that we have generally tried to stick to this approach, yes.

However, we might need to clarify this better in the Striking Strength and Standard Storm calculations pages.
 
As long as we aren't scaling AP to SS without feats, I'm fine with whatever we decide.
 
Kaltias said:
I thought this was already the rule?
Storms, explosions etc scale to AP, but you need evidence to say that they scale to SS.

For example if you injure a character who can withstand your attacks that aren't punches with physical blows, then your SS = your AP.
Click to expand...
Pretty much what is my impression as well.

Same thing for dura.
 
Btw, why Newton's Third Law would apply to energy blasts like Kamehameha and the Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon?

Goku's punches are comparable to a Kamehameha because they can harm people who can survive the latter.

Newton's third law has nothing to do with this
 
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