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I dont get it. Isnt the consensus "Its called hax cause it works independent of the power gap". If Zeno doenst have a resistance to cloning, shouldnt SB Janemba hax work?
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SB Janemba vs Zeno
- Thread starter Gargoyle_1
- Start date
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- dragon ball zen'ō
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Okay so if Janemba was to fight a 2-B, he'd be able to clone him? Or a 2-A? Or a Tier 1?
Should we change Janemba's AP to "___ level via cloning"? Because if he can create clones of people with such greater AP and control them to battle for him, he can clearly fight on a higher level.
Yes there's having hax work on stronger people when they haven't shown a resistance. But there's also "don't extrapolate a power's ability far beyond what it's shown." That's why NLF is a concept.
Should we change Janemba's AP to "___ level via cloning"? Because if he can create clones of people with such greater AP and control them to battle for him, he can clearly fight on a higher level.
Yes there's having hax work on stronger people when they haven't shown a resistance. But there's also "don't extrapolate a power's ability far beyond what it's shown." That's why NLF is a concept.
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The abilities on Janemba's page should have a description. I voted for him before because.
He had Reality Warping (didn't no what level), Possession (didn't know he dose it by bringing the evil out of people), Absorption (no one's dinied that one) and Cloning (couldn't remember what level Janemba was so I assumed them around equals), Space Time Manipulation (didn't know his extent with it)
This is one of the reasons why I created the tread about adding descriptions on characters powers so people won't get confused about what a character can and can't do with their powers and abilities.
He had Reality Warping (didn't no what level), Possession (didn't know he dose it by bringing the evil out of people), Absorption (no one's dinied that one) and Cloning (couldn't remember what level Janemba was so I assumed them around equals), Space Time Manipulation (didn't know his extent with it)
This is one of the reasons why I created the tread about adding descriptions on characters powers so people won't get confused about what a character can and can't do with their powers and abilities.
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Not by DB's power lvl logic, which, admittedly, might actually apply here since they both come from the same verse. So I'm not sure if Janemba could clone Zen'o either. As for the match itself, not taking part in it.
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@Ryu So if a character has only used a certain hax on people weaker and/or on par with themselves, it shouldnt apply to characters who are stronger?
Sorry if im derailing. U dont have to respond if u dont want too.
Sorry if im derailing. U dont have to respond if u dont want too.
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Maybe I can help a bit. SB Janemba first off in power is considered 2C and possibly higher for 2 reasons.
1. Since we see him directly alter and start to fuze the future, present and at least effect a past tiemline begining of the game, including after life etc. Now he continuously expands and grows in power during the game, so he constantly grows in power feeding off negative energy and basically being the embodiement of it, and we don't know how many timelines he has engulfed by the end, hence he can get past 2-C theoretically and may or may not have. Also Cell confirms there are infinte timelines in SB, so there is no limit from number of timelines.
2. Also we see Gotenks raw ki be enough to warp "diemsnions" plural, aka tiemlines in this sense, and use that to erase Cell from existance. That is also 2C as a feat in raw power/ki, and Gotenks cannot hurt Janemba when they face off, so Janemba should have 2C durability or minimum have likely 2C dura for tanking Gotenks and scaling to his ki level, which applies to dura and DP.
Now Hax wise, Janemba has more Hax, for sure. I don't really need to go over them unless people need clarification on specifics.
Speed wise, Janemba's bodys can outpace Gotenks, Goku, Broly etc, who all should logically at least scale to their mftl+ non canon counterparts. He also has nigh Omnipressence for existing in most parts of the Universe, anywhere with negative energy, which he spreads to. THis is across tiemlines as well as space, so I would personally consider his true conciousness to have spatial and temporal nigh-Omnipressence, albeit his conciousness can only use hax like mind control, absorbing, space time manipulation etc, he needs to manifest bodies ot physically attack. Also he can regen from any evil energy, as many times as he wants, so as long as it exists he does, it can be removed to weaken him though, but the more that builds the strogner he gets.
That is him in a nutshell.
Personally I think he beats Zeno by the current shown feats, but I would wait till Zeno actually shows his serious power personally to conclude anything.
1. Since we see him directly alter and start to fuze the future, present and at least effect a past tiemline begining of the game, including after life etc. Now he continuously expands and grows in power during the game, so he constantly grows in power feeding off negative energy and basically being the embodiement of it, and we don't know how many timelines he has engulfed by the end, hence he can get past 2-C theoretically and may or may not have. Also Cell confirms there are infinte timelines in SB, so there is no limit from number of timelines.
2. Also we see Gotenks raw ki be enough to warp "diemsnions" plural, aka tiemlines in this sense, and use that to erase Cell from existance. That is also 2C as a feat in raw power/ki, and Gotenks cannot hurt Janemba when they face off, so Janemba should have 2C durability or minimum have likely 2C dura for tanking Gotenks and scaling to his ki level, which applies to dura and DP.
Now Hax wise, Janemba has more Hax, for sure. I don't really need to go over them unless people need clarification on specifics.
Speed wise, Janemba's bodys can outpace Gotenks, Goku, Broly etc, who all should logically at least scale to their mftl+ non canon counterparts. He also has nigh Omnipressence for existing in most parts of the Universe, anywhere with negative energy, which he spreads to. THis is across tiemlines as well as space, so I would personally consider his true conciousness to have spatial and temporal nigh-Omnipressence, albeit his conciousness can only use hax like mind control, absorbing, space time manipulation etc, he needs to manifest bodies ot physically attack. Also he can regen from any evil energy, as many times as he wants, so as long as it exists he does, it can be removed to weaken him though, but the more that builds the strogner he gets.
That is him in a nutshell.
Personally I think he beats Zeno by the current shown feats, but I would wait till Zeno actually shows his serious power personally to conclude anything.
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@Radical This is just kinda how I feel regarding such things.
In my opinion, it's really circumstantial and dependent on the hax itself. Some things like Misogi's All Fiction obviously bypass stats heavily and can be assumed to work on people stronger than himself as long as that stronger person hasn't shown a resistance.
Something as simple as being able to use your own power to create a clone of someone, I believe it shouldn't be assumed you can create clones with power orders of magnitude greater than your own. If all you've shown is to use your power to clone far weaker people.
In my opinion, it's really circumstantial and dependent on the hax itself. Some things like Misogi's All Fiction obviously bypass stats heavily and can be assumed to work on people stronger than himself as long as that stronger person hasn't shown a resistance.
Something as simple as being able to use your own power to create a clone of someone, I believe it shouldn't be assumed you can create clones with power orders of magnitude greater than your own. If all you've shown is to use your power to clone far weaker people.
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@Ryu Thank u for the explanation
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@SSJRyu1 I'm not sure if this site accepts the endless timelines statement (I'm not sure). I think he's rated on a 2-C feat of him warping less universes than Zen'ō has been able to destroy. But I'm not sure.
Either way the high end for him isn't being used in the match, rather the low end.
If SB Janemba does have 2-C feats higher than Zen'ō's however, then sure.
Either way the high end for him isn't being used in the match, rather the low end.
If SB Janemba does have 2-C feats higher than Zen'ō's however, then sure.
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A few Universes should be around like 4 to 7 maybe 10. Zeno destroyed 12.
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Well from what I recall SB Janemba was able to extend his influence in many of Universe 7's Timelines.
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@RadicalMrR No problem, glad to lend a hand.
@Ryukama Well, Cell says there are "endless worlds" for him to visit and destroy using time travel, refering to Earths/timelines and talks about how he can use the time machiene to visit them all if he kills Trunks to take his time machiene. I think it is pretty clear that would qualify as inifnte timelines in this game at least imo. But it is in question just how many Janemba actually effected of those is the thing, we see at least 3 timelines be effected begining of game, and he continues to spread the whole game. So by that logic, minimum is 3 timelines, max would be infinte.
When it was evaluated though a timeline was not known to have 12 macrocausms, so if we go by current cosmology his feat has become more impressive, like 36 universes min since each timeline has 12, if not though and we used just 1 macrocausm for each even at his weaker start he warps 3 tiemlines at least, each with universe+other world which is the same size+other pocket ones.
In the end imo SB Janemba is more impressive due to hax if nothing else though, power wise he is likely close if not superior to Zeno with his current showings.
@Ryukama Well, Cell says there are "endless worlds" for him to visit and destroy using time travel, refering to Earths/timelines and talks about how he can use the time machiene to visit them all if he kills Trunks to take his time machiene. I think it is pretty clear that would qualify as inifnte timelines in this game at least imo. But it is in question just how many Janemba actually effected of those is the thing, we see at least 3 timelines be effected begining of game, and he continues to spread the whole game. So by that logic, minimum is 3 timelines, max would be infinte.
When it was evaluated though a timeline was not known to have 12 macrocausms, so if we go by current cosmology his feat has become more impressive, like 36 universes min since each timeline has 12, if not though and we used just 1 macrocausm for each even at his weaker start he warps 3 tiemlines at least, each with universe+other world which is the same size+other pocket ones.
In the end imo SB Janemba is more impressive due to hax if nothing else though, power wise he is likely close if not superior to Zeno with his current showings.
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Alright. Maybe you could make a thread regarding the endless timelines.
However I don't think we can apply the 12 macrocosms per timeline cosmology to a separate continuity game made years before this concept was thought of for the main series. So if we're only using his feat of warping 3 timelines, he's probably not as impressive as Zen'ō powerwise.
I definitely agree SB Janemba is better in hax so far though.
However I don't think we can apply the 12 macrocosms per timeline cosmology to a separate continuity game made years before this concept was thought of for the main series. So if we're only using his feat of warping 3 timelines, he's probably not as impressive as Zen'ō powerwise.
I definitely agree SB Janemba is better in hax so far though.
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Well I mean the endless timelines thing really wouldn't change his tier unless we used his higher potential since it never states directly that he controled them all that I could find, even if he was stated to be spreading past the 3 shown. So not really much point in making a thread on it if there is not anything that would come out of it even fi it were accepted. But I can Post the scan up for anybody interested.
"Any world any time and all the destruction I want...Endless worlds..."
http://imgur.com/J9flgps
"Any world any time and all the destruction I want...Endless worlds..."
http://imgur.com/J9flgps
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So uh.....
Janemba can't fight in his Nigh Omnipresent state, meaning Zeno blitz stomps Janemba...
Janemba can't fight in his Nigh Omnipresent state, meaning Zeno blitz stomps Janemba...
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Janemba due to what Ryu said.
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Oh wow Zeno has votes now
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As stated above, Zeno gets worked and has no counter or feat that makes him able to get past low godly regen.
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Janemba via speed and hax
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Well if we're to apply SB Janemba's abilities to Super, Zeno erasing the future created another time ring, which is another timeline. If Janemba doesn't stay in one body, and thus spreads his essence over multiple timelines, Zeno destroying one timeline would effectively BFR himself, since he has no feats of cross-timeline travel.
Plus if he can copy Zeno, that helps too.
Plus if he can copy Zeno, that helps too.
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Wait, I know I'm late to this. But I love Janemba, yet I've never played this game. IS HE REALLY THAT STRONG IN THE GAME? D: JESUS!
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