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Sayaka Miki vs Yujiro Hanma

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I just want to mention a few things I feel were overlooked here.

On the subject of Yujiro targeting Sayaka's Soul Gem.

Consider the following. Sayaka knows to protect her Soul Gem, and she certainly isn't some master of hiding her intentions. Yujiro's information analysis and high intelligence should allow him to easily notice her guarding that area of her body, even subconsciously. Especially since she ordinarily fights like a berserker and thus wouldn't be trying to guard much of the rest of her body.

So now he figures that her Soul Gem is somehow important to her, even if he doesn't know why. I predict that he'd either snatch it from her or simply attack it before she could react, through the use of that 0.5 seconds thing. Alternatively he can simply break her arms for the extremely short time he needs to grab it, but I don't think that'll be necessary. Then after a short verbal exchange (or not, they don't really need to banter) he'll notice her distress at his choice of target, fully cementing the thought that he should destroy it. Then, he proceeds to do just that, ending the fight decisively.

As for how he gets that close, or how he gets it from her? Several of the above posts explain that quite nicely, but i'll mention the most notable things I saw. Through massively outskilling her and the use of his various techniques, Yujiro will have very little difficulty avoiding Sayaka's attacks. She may also underestimate him at first due to not detecting any magic from him, and thus not registering him as the kind of threat she's used to. To her, he may as well be a reeeeaaally buff human.

And on the subject of Sleep Manipulation, I agree that she's never used it in character, so I find it unlikely. And even if she did use it I wouldn't be surprised if Yujiro could resist it.

Lastly, for those who don't understand how the 0.5 seconds thing works, I believe I can explain it. Humans in that universe seem to have 0.5 seconds after reacting before their brain can actually send signals to the body to move. Due to verse equalization, this should apply to Sayaka as well, even though she's a magical girl.

In conclusion, he does have a reason to target her Soul Gem, he has the means to do so, and she cannot stop him.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sayaka a lot, but i'm certain she loses here. Honestly, this is a bad matchup for her since the odds are really stacked against her.
 
I just checked what she scales to and Yujiro has the AP advantage. Switching back to Yujiro for A Hero Long Forgetten's and the aforementioned reasons. Y'all actually had me convinced that she had the AP advantage.

Yujiro: Base AP 2.68 kilotons x3 via Demon Back (8.04 kilotons)

Sayaka: What she scales to (At least 6.66 kilotons)
 
Sayaka casually oneshotted a 6.66 kiloton character

even then an AP difference of 1.2x is so miniscule its hardly a factor

The AP difference between the two is even
 
Anttron224 said:
Did you count my vote as well? Also EmperorDoom25 and I are switching so Sayaka should also lose 2 votes
Click to expand...
Just got back. I updated the OP.

Honestly I feel like skill is REALLY downplayed in general.
 
@Hero Sayaka... subconicously defending the soul gem? Even taking Homura's Revenge ver. of Sayaka into account, her fighting style was purposely reckless. She won't be giving any cues.

"To her, he may as well be a reeeeaaally buff human." And to him she's just a child so...

"Due to verse equalization, this should apply to Sayaka as well, even though she's a magical girl." If what you said is correct, then reminder that her soul gem controls the body, not the brain; verse equalization wouldn't apply here.

The soul gem is also durable enough to resist quite a few hits, needless to say he'll probably stop once he realizes that it hasn't changed anything.

@Anttron

Also 8.04 kilotons with amplification vs stomping a 6.66? Ignoring the fact that her attack potency would increase even if she did initially have near or equal strength from being hit too much.
 
Stomping 6.66 kilotons is massively above Yujiro idk where people are getting the AP advantage from.
 
Apparent a 1.2x advantage despite the scaling chain in Sayaka's favor is a notable advantage
 
He canonically hits children and has no problems with it.

I do agree that she wouldn't protect her gem according to her style, especially if one of our arguments is that she doesn't see Yujiro as a threat due to lacking magical abilities.

Her soul gem sends signals to preform actions, thus it would be affected by .5 seconds unconscious. It's not verse equalization, it's just how thought signals work.

No, y'all just made it seem like she AP stomped when the difference is actually closer than you guys implied (If I remember correctly someone said she was at about 13 kilotons casually). Not saying either has a real advantage there until Sayaka's increases over time.
 
Though in the orignal comment I made where I learned her true scaling I did imply that he had a significant advantage and I do apologize for any confusion. I meant to convey that it's much closer than I was told, and I am aware of Sayaka's reactive power level. I still believe Yujiro has this due to the massive skill and intelligence advantage.
 
Stomping someone 1.2x weaker then Yujiro is actually a nigh-AP stomp. So thats a problem.

Especially since that 6.66 kilotons feat was by literally being born
 
By the way am I the only one who is questioning the fact that the OP has done literally nothing but try to argue that said reasons for Sayaka were wrong and that he even said they weren't valid?
 
Schnee One said:
By the way am I the only one who is questioning the fact that the OP has done literally nothing but try to argue that said reasons for Sayaka were wrong and that he even said they weren't valid?
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So? He still counted Sayaka's votes. And there isnt any rule that restrict the OP to argue about one of the characters
 
Arguing or proving info about a character is one thing actively saying that the reasons for other characters aren't valid is another
 
SomebodyData said:
@Hero Sayaka... subconicously defending the soul gem? Even taking Homura's Revenge ver. of Sayaka into account, her fighting style was purposely reckless. She won't be giving any cues.

"To her, he may as well be a reeeeaaally buff human." And to him she's just a child so...

"Due to verse equalization, this should apply to Sayaka as well, even though she's a magical girl." If what you said is correct, then reminder that her soul gem controls the body, not the brain; verse equalization wouldn't apply here.

The soul gem is also durable enough to resist quite a few hits, needless to say he'll probably stop once he realizes that it hasn't changed anything.

@Anttron

Also 8.04 kilotons with amplification vs stomping a 6.66? Ignoring the fact that her attack potency would increase even if she did initially have near or equal strength from being hit too much.
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I do not agree with your statement that she won't be giving any cues. Regardless, in the event that you are correct, and that Sayaka won't even subconsciously guard her Soul Gem, I still have another argument.

I do believe my previous point still stands, Yujiro just needs her to perform an action that does draw his eye to it.

Now I'm sure you're curious how that'd happen, given that he'd need to unintentionally draw her attention to her own Soul Gem enough that he can take notice of her actions. However the way that would happen is quite simple. It is positioned on her navel correct? I find it unlikely that he would not simply strike her in that area some time during the fight. Given that the fight could take some time between his overwhelming skill advantage and her Regenerationn, the chances of him somehow never coincidentally hitting her Soul Gem the entire time is extremely low.

Now the reason that is relevant, despite the fact that I have no doubts that he would only damage it as opposed to destroying it in that single blow, is because it would get her to become aware that he struck her Soul Gem. And that is all he needs, since with that single moment of attention given to her Soul Gem he will become curious. He will think to himself, "Why has this girl given such unusual attention to that object, when she barely blinked at having her body broken?" Though perhaps not in so many words.

With that he will continue as stated in my previous post, taking or targeting the Soul Gem and causing her further distress. And in response to that he will destroy it, winning the match.


Now on the subject of it's durability deterring him, I find the opposite to be far more likely. There are a few possible reasons, such as Yujiro taking it as a challenge, deciding to destroy the strange object that appears to resist his strength. Or perhaps he will, having tired from pointlessly continuing this simple if tedious fight, decide that destroying it might cause something interesting to happen, given his opponent's reactions to his targeting of the Soul Gem.

Regardless of how it happens, be it my previous post's reasons, or these, I maintain that Yujiro will be the victor of this battle.
 
@A Hero

Yujiro's current win-con is only thru sheer AP upon destroying her soul gem. Sayaka's is through Life Absorption, Sleep Manip, or AP/Range.

If the battle were to become tedious it would be faster for Sayaka using one of her wincons than Yujiro beginning to destroy the soul gem.

I mean, your guys' entire idea of the battle is that Sayaka won't be able to hit Yujiro the entire time it takes him to realize his AP can't beat her regen, him using a multitude of techniques, and then finally deciding to attack the soul gem. The life absorption part is a chance whenever she commits a normal attack, so its gonna happen quite soon.


@Anttron

I'm not saying he doesn't hit children. I'm saying he's gonna underestimate her quite a bit because she's a kid.
 
SomebodyData said:
@A Hero

Yujiro's current win-con is only thru sheer AP upon destroying her soul gem. Sayaka's is through Life Absorption, Sleep Manip, or AP/Range.

If the battle were to become tedious it would be faster for Sayaka using one of her wincons than Yujiro beginning to destroy the soul gem.

I mean, your guys' entire idea of the battle is that Sayaka won't be able to hit Yujiro the entire time it takes him to realize his AP can't beat her regen, him using a multitude of techniques, and then finally deciding to attack the soul gem. The life absorption part is a chance whenever she commits a normal attack, so its gonna happen quite soon.


@Anttron

I'm not saying he doesn't hit children. I'm saying he's gonna underestimate her quite a bit because she's a kid.
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As stated previously, Sayaka does not have the required combat skill or experience to put up much of a fight against Yujiro, so the statement that she won't be able to hit him is valid.

In addition, her range advantage isn't very useful. Yujiro has a multitude of techniques that will allow him to close the gap as well as deal with projectiles, and Sayaka isn't much of a ranged fighter anyway. She likes to charge in recklessly, and that is quite the mistake against Yujiro.

I'd also like to mention that Yujiro won't underestimate her. In fact, I think he'll accurately discern her exact capabilities with his genius intelligence and information analysis.

So to recap, Sayaka will have monumental difficulty hitting Yujiro in the first place because he outskills her dramatically, she is very reckless, and she'll likely underestimate him initially.

Now due to the reasons stated in my previous posts, I believe that Yujiro will be able to notice her weakness rather quickly, and will proceed to take advantage of it to claim victory.
 
To say she won't hit him, seems to ignore Yujiro's personality. How often has he actully dodged, say Baki's attacks, compared to the times he just tanks them. So to say she won't hit him, even once, is quite invalid with that in mind, no?

His Information analysis is purely physical, to him she's just a little girl, I already pointed that out above. He won't be able to disern her abilities, in fact the info analysis would just make him not take her seriously even more.
 
SomebodyData said:
To say she won't hit him, seems to ignore Yujiro's personality. How often has he actully dodged, say Baki's attacks, compared to the times he just tanks them. So to say she won't hit him, even once, is quite invalid with that in mind, no?

His Information analysis is purely physical, to him she's just a little girl, I already pointed that out above. He won't be able to disern her abilities, in fact the info analysis would just make him not take her seriously even more.
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I still don't think Sayaka could hit Yujiro if he didn't let her, and I doubt he'd let her land any hits past the first one when he feels his very life force being drained. Of course, he'd have to actually let her hit him in the first place and given that he likely wouldn't recognize her as a worthy opponent I don't see him doing that.

On the other subject, I think I may have been unclear. I'm saying that as a result of his mental abilities, Yujiro will be able to discover Sayaka's combat skills, not her magical abilities. Still, given her in-character combat actions, I doubt Yujiro will be in the dark about her abilities for long, not that he'd really hold back regardless.
 
I mean, if he gets life force drained, that would weaken him quite a bit, not sure he would have a choice by then. If he doesn't see her as a worthy opponent then why would he bother trying to analyze her?

Oh. But didn't you say yourself that she lacks the skills to fight him? In that case, it would only prove the point that he wouldn't get the full picture of Sayaka. I'm not sure how he would learn about her abilities, unless you're implying she would just regen in front of him, instead of waiting for a second to launch a suprise attack like in Homura's Revenge.
 
SomebodyData said:
I mean, if he gets life force drained, that would weaken him quite a bit, not sure he would have a choice by then. If he doesn't see her as a worthy opponent then why would he bother trying to analyze her?

Oh. But didn't you say yourself that she lacks the skills to fight him? In that case, it would only prove the point that he wouldn't get the full picture of Sayaka. I'm not sure how he would learn about her abilities, unless you're implying she would just regen in front of him, instead of waiting for a second to launch a suprise attack like in Homura's Revenge.
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I was saying that he'd decide Sayaka isn't a foe with much worth because he'd use his skills to figure out hers, and see that she is lacking. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Also, I don't think surprise attacks are going to work, Yujiro has combat precog/danger sense that'll let him know what she's up to. In fact, it might even let him figure out how dangerous it is to be hit by her attacks in the first place, prompting him to avoid them entirely.
 
Also Yujiro in-character dodges if he senses killing intent or immense power from an attack, as exhibited when Kaku Kaioh purposely did a weak punch to mislead him on his power level and surprise him with a real punch, but he still dodged the real punch anyway because he could sense the power in it.
 
For reference the Kaioh's are extremely capable Chinese martial artists that are World renowned.

You know now that I think about it Yujiro DID dodge a bunch of attacks from Mohammad Ali when they first encountered each other.
 
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