Santōryū vs Niten Ichi-ryū

[Rez]

If we are talking about just ap then she two shots

 

[SnookB]

What Musashi has 6.65 times ap advantage Zoro is massively outclassed in that area

His amps are stated to be "far higher" with Busoshoku. What quantifies as "far higher" in this scenario? Zoro was shown one shotting equal characters to him which is about a x7 amp based on that.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Zoro has no dura negs can bypass dura musashi, also musashi has AP advantage

This is also one of wincon musashi

 

[Rez]

His amps are stated to be "far higher" with Busoshoku. What quantifies as "far higher" in this scenario? Zoro was shown one shotting equal characters to him which is about a x7 amp based on that.

Her base is 6.65 times stronger than zoro with np she is close to high 6-c

 

[Excaliburhuman]

His amps are stated to be "far higher" with Busoshoku. What quantifies as "far higher" in this scenario? Zoro was shown one shotting equal characters to him which is about a x7 amp based on that.

You can't use oneshot as a quantifiable amp

• This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse.

 

[SnookB]

And if it's wano Zoro, he's "at least" 6C. Where does that fall on the 6C scale? Still 4.3? The lack of numbers makes it confusing.

 

[SnookB]

You can't use oneshot as a quantifiable amp

It's not quantifiable is the issue. It's been stated way earlier in this thread that Zoro is "unquantifiably higher" than base 6C because of the Hyozu feat.

 

[Rez]

And if it's wano Zoro, he's "at least" 6C. Where does that fall on the 6C scale? Still 4.3? The lack of numbers makes it confusing.

The at least is just because he scales above 4.3

 

[John985]

I find the fact that this thread has not yet been locked curious. Is this not a stomp in Musashi's favour?

One Piece wank is strong in this thread.......

And saying that it can blitz Musashi, when the Speed of Musashi rank to infinite.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

It's not quantifiable is the issue. It's been stated way earlier in this thread that Zoro is "unquantifiably higher" than base 6C because of the Hyozu feat.

I mean you can't say its a 7x amp.

 

[Rez]

And saying that it can blitz Musashi, when the Speed of Musashi rank to infinite.

That's zero Musashi but zoro isn't blitzing heavenly eyes regardless

 

[RazumaHiroki]

One Piece wank is strong in this thread.......

And saying that it can blitz Musashi, when the Speed of Musashi rank to infinite.

Same can be said for Nasuverse wank.

 

[SnookB]

Her base is 6.65 times stronger than zoro with np she is close to high 6-c

Her NP doesn't scale to her defense.

One Piece wank is strong in this thread.......

And saying that it can blitz Musashi, when the Speed of Musashi rank to infinite.

Pre-Zero Musashi. Use your eyes. Respectfully.

 

[Rez]

Same can be said for Nasuverse wank.

Everything stated here for Musashi is actually being backed up by actual feats and scan

 

[Rez]

Her NP doesn't scale to her defense.

Her base durability is still 6.65 higher than zoro's ap

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Zoro's attack moves will be bend by Musashi's space-time manipulation, when that misses Musashi will attack him back with his swordsmanship.

Space-time manipulation are thought based abilities.

 

[Rez]

Basically the argument for zoro thought based abilities are slower than speed amps, he one shots despite having a 6.65 ap difference and he is immune to fate hax

 

[John985]

That's zero Musashi but zoro isn't blitzing heavenly eyes regardless

Yeah Zero Musashi, but Servant Musashi is post Zero Musashi.

 

[SnookB]

Zoro's attack moves will be bend by Musashi's space-time manipulation, when that misses Musashi will attack him back with his swordsmanship.

Why would they, when we have showings of haki countering space bending? And her space-time bending is only applicable during the use of her eye to lead to her best course of action. WHY ARE WE GIVING IT TO HER DEFENSIVELY WHEN SHE NEVER USED IT THAT WAY?

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Same can be said for Nasuverse wank.

I am actually curious as what you think is wank in this thread. She as fate hax as an ability and we provided the scans. All you guys have said is It doesn't work because he have precog. And once that was debunked it became he can oneshot someone who have a 6.65 times ap advantaged. They you guys went back to downplaying fate manip again by saying she can't choose the outcome of the battle when I posted scans that says otherwise.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Why would they, when we have showings of haki countering space bending? And her space-time bending is only applicable during the use of her eye to lead to her best course of action. WHY ARE WE GIVING IT TO HER DEFENSIVELY WHEN SHE NEVER USED IT THAT WAY?

Her ability works on servants who have magic resist which is layered space resistance. Not to metion apparently servants have 4D space manip resistance (which I disagree with but its what has been accepted.)

 

[SnookB]

I am actually curious as what you think is wank in this thread. She as fate hax as an ability and we provided the scans. All you guys have said is It doesn't work because he have precog. And once that was debunked it became he can oneshot someone who have a 6.65 times ap advantaged. They you guys went back to downplaying fate manip again by saying she can't choose the outcome of the battle when I posted scans that says otherwise.

Nothing's been debunked- we've literally been barking up the same tree for nearly 8 pages now. Her eye can get skill-stomped by Yagyu.
Zoro's precog is better than analytical prediction, therefore her eye would get the same treatment from his precog. Her best course of action could lead to her landing a hit, just not a fatal hit.
The only thing I don't understand is why she one shots him when he tanked characters far stronger than his own dura/AP, and why he one shots her when the difference is as big as it is (when Shishi sonson has no known roof to scale the one shot off of- it's just unquantifiable.)

 

[Rez]

Nothing's been debunked- we've literally been barking up the same tree for nearly 8 pages now. Her eye can get skill-stomped by Yagyu.

Not skill stomped their simply didn't exist a possibility where she could have won

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Why would they, when we have showings of haki countering space bending? And her space-time bending is only applicable during the use of her eye to lead to her best course of action. WHY ARE WE GIVING IT TO HER DEFENSIVELY WHEN SHE NEVER USED IT THAT WAY?

it is used in conjunction with fate manipulation, wdym?

And yeah it's a thought based abilities, zoro can't blitzes

 

[SnookB]

Not skill stomped their simply didn't exist a possibility where she could have won

Because he was better than her

 

[SnookB]

it is used in conjunction with fate manipulation, wdym?

The only used "fate manipulation" aspect of it is her choosing different fates and outcomes- the space-time aspect comes in the fact that she accidentally can drift into said outcomes and look into them directly.
When you read into her abilities they aren't as god tier hax as you all make it sound.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Nothing's been debunked- we've literally been barking up the same tree for nearly 8 pages now. Her eye can get skill-stomped by Yagyu.
Zoro's precog is better than analytical prediction, therefore her eye would get the same treatment from his precog. Her best course of action could lead to her landing a hit, just not a fatal hit.
The only thing I don't understand is why she one shots him when he tanked characters far stronger than his own dura/AP, and why he one shots her when the difference is as big as it is (when Shishi sonson has no known roof to scale the one shot off of- it's just unquantifiable.)

I thought it was established on the Zoro vs Kojiro thread that they have similar skill (I am not going to debate who has better skill because as I said before debting which fictional character from two different verse have better skill is one of the dumbest thing I have seen.)
HER EYES ARE FATE MANIP he CANNOT CHANGE THE FATE so WHAT SHE CHOOSES BECOMES REALITLY. PRECOG IS NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.
I never said she oneshots. I guess she can oneshot with her NP wich is 6-C+

 

[Rez]

Because he was better than her

Musashi's ability has worked on people much stronger than her and by that I mean the difference is tiers apart him being better has no relevance it's plain right pis and considering the ap gap here their certainly exists many possibilities where Musashi wins so your argument here is rather bad

 

[Excaliburhuman]

The only used "fate manipulation" aspect of it is her choosing different fates and outcomes- the space-time aspect comes in the fact that she accidentally can drift into said outcomes and look into them directly.
When you read into her abilities they aren't as god tier hax as you all make it sound.

This is the justification on her profile if you think its wrong make a crt
(Her mentality allows her to bend space and time to their needs, to bring about the outcome she desires),

 

[Rez]

The only used "fate manipulation" aspect of it is her choosing different fates and outcomes- the space-time aspect comes in the fact that she accidentally can drift into said outcomes and look into them directly.
When you read into her abilities they aren't as god tier hax as you all make it sound.

No her ability description literally states if realising the fate choosen by Musashi means bending space time it will happen

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

make a CRT when zoro doesn't have that, you're just saying bullshit all this time.

 

[Rez]

The only used "fate manipulation" aspect of it is her choosing different fates and outcomes- the space-time aspect comes in the fact that she accidentally can drift into said outcomes and look into them directly.
When you read into her abilities they aren't as god tier hax as you all make it sound.

Heavenly Eye: A
Heavenly Eye is said to be the power to achieve one's goals. It's an act of resolve to do something, then putting your entire body and soul into achieving it. One could say that it's an act of putting your entire self and existence into your gaze, and projecting it towards your goal.
In Musashi's case, Heavenly Eye is used only to wield her blade on the spot. For example, if she decides to cut her opponent's right arm, she'll do whatever it takes to sever it. Her strike will be optimized, bending time and space toward achieving this goal.
The power to narrow down all potential options for achieving a goal into a single eventuality. It could also be described as a very special type of Mystic Eye, which narrows an infinite number of possible futures down to only one.

 

[Rez]

make a CRT when zoro doesn't have that, you're just saying bullshit all this time.

The whole argument for zoro here is just random bs

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Then if we're using pre-zero, just assume he's fighting Musashi during Shimousa?

If he is fighting Musashi during Shimousa then she aside from the eyes have the blade of Muramasa and cut not only his soul but her karma and causality as well with the blades.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The whole argument for zoro here is just random bs

Yet the random bs is more plausible and believable than 7 pages explanations about her fate hax and eye (12+ different explanations), pretty ironic isn't?. Pardon me for my sarcasm, but before you accuse the One piece supporters as dumb, even people who weren't part of this match still voted for Zoro, and if it takes 5-6 supporters to explain her hax to one person. I should be asking myself if the things you guys are saying aren't a little too exaggerated or far from what her eye actually does. Well, i'll just read the wiki (even though i generally dont trust any wiki)

 

[Rez]

Yet the random bs is more plausible and believable than 7 pages explanations about her fate hax and eye (12+ different explanations), pretty ironic isn't?. Pardon me for my sarcasm, but before you accuse the One piece supporters as dumb, even people who weren't part of this match still voted for Zoro, and if it takes 5-6 supporters to explain her hax to one person. I should be asking myself if the things you guys are saying aren't a little too exaggerated or far from what her eye actually does. Well, i'll just read the wiki (even though i generally dont trust any wiki)

We literally provided multiple scans for her ability from her actual fgo profile and from the story

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yet the random bs is more plausible and believable than 7 pages explanations about her fate hax and eye (12+ different explanations), pretty ironic isn't?. Pardon me for my sarcasm, but before you accuse the One piece supporters as dumb, even people who weren't part of this match still voted for Zoro, and if it takes 5-6 supporters to explain her hax to one person. I should be asking myself if the things you guys are saying aren't a little too exaggerated or far from what her eye actually does. Well, i'll just read the wiki (even though i generally dont trust any wiki)

If it wasn't questioned and changed her ability by the other side then it wouldn't have be needed to explain it various times, the scans and profile itself mention the words infinite, bend space and time and so.

I understand that there are abilities hard to understand to persons that don't follow certain series, but even so there is a limit to how much can be changed how abilities work do to ignorance of the series.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

if you don't want to believe in the wiki, don't debate here, and when you want to delete an ability then create a CRT, a battle to determine the winner, not dispute the abilities that are clearly in the profile

 

[LordGinSama]

Hm how's about the full scans? What did MHX do to counter her Fate Manipulation? Because I'm pretty sure her hand wasn't actually cut off in that fight against Musashi.

Servant Invulnerability gets bypassed by Haki and how old Zoro's blades are.

If he is fighting Musashi during Shimousa then she aside from the eyes have the blade of Muramasa and cut not only his soul but her karma and causality as well with the blades.

This is left pretty vague as to what she can actually do with this or how it even works.