Sans vs Accelerator

[Aurasuke]

Yeah, accelerator can reflect all types of teleportation vectors. He can reflect other objects teleporting towards him, as well as himself being teleported towards anything else.

Musujime has the ability to teleport things without touching them, but she was powerless against accelerator.

 

[Tzula]

Wait.. Reflect teleportation?
I didn't know Sans can teleport people.. Though he can prank people among the space-time continuum. (Or was that just a prank with the lights off? another thing I was unsure...)


But yeah. I thought Sans could just teleport around you.

He can likely teleport others, as well. When he "blinks" the screen in battle, he doesn't disappear. You and your menu do, likely meaning he's warping you as opposed to himself. However, since he only ever does this in battle, he likely needs to be within relatively close proximity to his target to do so. In a route in which you don't kill Papyrus, he also warps you and himself to Grillby's, so there's that, too.

1:

There's no proof, Id like some proof.

2:

When you fight him Sans is not at Grillbys when you win.

He's mostly dead.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

@Aurasuke, I GAVE a reasonable example as to why the beam is WELL beyond lightspeed. it is instantaneous to beings that percieve light fast enough to dodge back and forth in front of it multiple times before it gets to them.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

1:

There's no proof, Id like some proof.

2:

When you fight him Sans is not at Grillbys when you win.

He's mostly dead.

1.) Watch the fight, he teleports your soul around a lot in rapidly blinking screen transitions.

2.) in the pacifist route he teleports you instantly to grilllby's and remarks on how instantaneous his shortcut was, meaning he can teleport you.

 

[Tzula]

1:

There's no proof, Id like some proof.

2:

When you fight him Sans is not at Grillbys when you win.

He's mostly dead.

1.) Watch the fight, he teleports your soul around a lot in rapidly blinking screen transitions.
2.) in the pacifist route he teleports you instantly to grilllby's and remarks on how instantaneous his shortcut was, meaning he can teleport you.

Okay..

But that doesn't mean he survives the boss fight in the genocide route

Just sayin

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Okay..

But that doesn't mean he survives the boss fight in the genocide route

Just sayin

The comment you were replying to didn't make that claim though. :l

 

[Tzula]

Okay..

But that doesn't mean he survives the boss fight in the genocide route

Just sayin

The comment you were replying to didn't make that claim though. :l

Ah, Sorry I apologize, my engrish sucks :X

 

[Aurasuke]

1.) Watch the fight, he teleports your soul around a lot in rapidly blinking screen transitions.

2.) in the pacifist route he teleports you instantly to grilllby's and remarks on how instantaneous his shortcut was, meaning he can teleport you.

And I gave you an example of how teleportation doesn't work on accelerator as well as how all teleportation is pretty much instantneous. Do you take a 10 second time lagg before appearing somewhere else? No unless your Weiss and apparently he takes 40 mins to travel around the Dbz universe. Pretty much saying that he dissapears and reappears because he can teleport doesn't mean anything. That is literally just the definition of teleportation.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

1.) Watch the fight, he teleports your soul around a lot in rapidly blinking screen transitions.

2.) in the pacifist route he teleports you instantly to grilllby's and remarks on how instantaneous his shortcut was, meaning he can teleport you.

One: That wasn't my comment responding to you.

Two: @Aurasuke, I GAVE a reasonable example as to why the beam is WELL beyond lightspeed. it is instantaneous to beings that percieve light fast enough to dodge back and forth in front of it multiple times before it gets to them.

This was. Sans reality warps his blaster into place and blows through him with a beam that's way faster than anything he's reflected.

 

[Aurasuke]

Two: @Aurasuke, I GAVE a reasonable example as to why the beam is WELL beyond lightspeed. it is instantaneous to beings that percieve light fast enough to dodge back and forth in front of it multiple times before it gets to them.

So wait you're saying if a being who can see at MFTL levels like Goku, he can see Kuroko Shirai teleport as not being instantneous? Does teleportation require a 5 minute time interval or something usually? I've given you an example of why every teleportation is instantneous.

Also that sunlight doding feat was realitivistic+

anyway you seem to not understand that all teleportation is instantneous.

 

[Tzula]

Okay

I'm gonna abandon thread.

Unless someone can help me explain So I can help

 

[Aurasuke]

I think I've lost interest in explaining as well

 

[Tzula]

1.) Watch the fight, he teleports your soul around a lot in rapidly blinking screen transitions.

2.) in the pacifist route he teleports you instantly to grilllby's and remarks on how instantaneous his shortcut was, meaning he can teleport you.

One: That wasn't my comment responding to you.

Two: @Aurasuke, I GAVE a reasonable example as to why the beam is WELL beyond lightspeed. it is instantaneous to beings that percieve light fast enough to dodge back and forth in front of it multiple times before it gets to them.

This was. Sans reality warps his blaster into place and blows through him with a beam that's way faster than anything he's reflected.

Number one was towards me..

And two was towards you and it's about lightspeed.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

I think I've lost interest in explaining as well

Aura, you can't just say that things that are shown to be faster than light are not faster than light. That's just how things work. I explained how it's instantaneous to beings that percieve light to be slower than instantaneous, ergo it absolutely MUST be faster than light. There's no getting around that.

 

[Aurasuke]

you're not even looking when i type all teleportation is precieved to be instantneous. Can they see through dimensions or something? Why wouldn't teleportation be instantneous? Goku's instant transmission is also instantneous, but speed in normal dimensions does not equal speed teleportation.

 

[Blahblah9755]

you're not even looking when i type all teleportation is precieved to be instantneous. Can they see through dimensions or something? Why wouldn't teleportation be instantneous? Goku's instant transmission is also instantneous, but speed in normal dimensions does not equal speed teleportation.

Aura this is about lasers not teleportation

 

[Aurasuke]

Oh, okay then

which character did they percieve to be faster than light? Also winged accel has calculation abilities much higher than his base form, though exact number is unknown. Probably at least 2 but considering how his mind works like a computer I wouldn't be surprised if he had no limits for calculating or at least 10^1000 times better. Either way the fact we're speculating accel's calculation speed is required for him to reflect object is probably untrue as well. The only time he showed any limit on calculation was when he was doing electron level precision work with last order's brain.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Oh, okay then
which character did they percieve to be faster than light? Also winged accel has calculation abilities much higher than his base form, though exact number is unknown. Probably at least 2 but considering how his mind works like a computer I wouldn't be surprised if he had no limits for calculating or at least 10^1000 times better. Either way the fact we're speculating accel's calculation speed is required for him to reflect object is probably untrue as well. The only time he showed any limit on calculation was when he was doing electron level precision work with last order's brain.

Unfortunately, assuming his calc speed is infinite is NLF, so it can't be accepted. It's tied to his calc speed by a feat, ergo it is necessarily tied to the fastest thing he's known to have calced. Feats > Everything. The beam is far beyond double the speed of light due to light travelling twice the size of the soul in a second (ala the Knight Knight fight) vs. the beam travelling well over 10x that far instantaneously in the Sans fight.

 

[Aurasuke]

can you say that in terms that someone who hasn't played the game can understand? Also I don't know if I mentioned this but in this battle Accelerator probably has the faster reaction speed. Sans is realitivistic+ in reaction speed according to his page, while Accelerator has the mind of over 100 supercomputers. The amount of calculations per second for tree diagram is way beyond you're average supercomputer. Now think of how many calculations he would need in order to rearange San's skull with his ribs? Probably 1 or 10 at most if he's really stressed out. Now think of how many calculations per second a supercomputer usually does. Around 33,860 trillion calculations per second in our world, in index, probably somewhere on the magnitude of 10^100 times more. For accelerator in awakened form, he doesn't need to touch sans to manipulate his vectors or rearange his body and killing him (like turning him into a ball by rearanging his particles). Accelerator in base form has more calculation ability than 100 tree diagrams. His angel form is expoentially more if not unlimited.

So will San's realitivistic reaction speed of less than 3*10^8 m/s help him against that level of calculation ability?

 

[Promestein]

Speed is equalized (and yes, this includes calculation and reaction speed) so this is irrelevant.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm going to stop following this because it frankly starts to fills up my notice box.

 

[Aurasuke]

in that case all accelerator has to do is dodge the tip of the barrel basically. Also you do realize with speed equalized, it's not a real fight right? Like kind of saying if accelerator fought the flash and speed was equalized, well duh accel's going to win, Flash is only speed, he can't do anything to Accel if they were the same speed.

He would still win if he was out of character, and it's about who strikes first. By the way these rules kind of completely favor Sans lol, Accelerator in awakened form would win first normally with first strike advantage.

 

[Promestein]

in that case all accelerator has to do is dodge the tip of the barrel basically. Also you do realize with speed equalized, it's not a real fight right? Like kind of saying if accelerator fought the flash and speed was equalized, well duh accel's going to win, Flash is only speed, he can't do anything to Accel if they were the same speed.

He would still win if he was out of character, and it's about who strikes first. By the way these rules kind of completely favor Sans lol, Accelerator in awakened form would win first normally with first strike advantage.

It's different from equalizing speed with Flash and Accelerator; speed is the only advantage Flash has (as well as being his gimmick, so equalizing speed in a Flash fight is stupid) and their powers have no meaningful or interesting interaction. However, there's room for debate here even with speed equalized, as this thread has shown.

 

[Aurasuke]

so basically first strike first win then? Guess Homura in base form can beat Sans too with speed and reaction speed equalized. Time stop hax wins lol

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Ahhh, okay, this makes more sense. didn't realize you hadn't played the game. Alright here, I'll provide some relevant links and explain the speed of light calc, the speed of the beam calc, and exactly how crazy this is.

At this point in this video you will see a battle with a foe called Knight Knight. Knight Knight attacks with sunlight, via a miniature sun. I've calced the light coming from this sun moving at a speed of twice the size of the SOUL that's dodging it per second. Without getting into my previous timescale calcs that determine how quickly the perception of Frisk must be to percieve light moving that slowly by determining the size of the soul and scaling the light to it, we can still directly correlate the speed of light calc to the speed of sans' beam, which appears instantaneous on at least this timescale.

Looking at this picture we can see that the beams cross the entire screen, and in the fight, they do so instantaneously, that is to say in a single frame, or 1/40th of a second. Since the size of the soul does not change between fights, we can take the size of the soul, multiply it by two, and measure across the length of the beam, then multiply by 40 to determine the bare minimum multiplicative factor of the speed of light the beam travels at. Assuming the beam is at least 10x the doubled size of the soul, likely closer to 15, but let's lowball it here, we're looking at about 400x the speed of light.

This is how we know that Gasterblasters are ridiculously faster than light.

Now, if we want to bring in my timescale calculations, which have been accepted in the past, we can determine exactly how fast the reaction speed of Frisk must be in order to percieve light at such a degree. These calculations assume the size of the soul is 5ft for simplicity's sake, however, the soul is likely smaller, as such these should be considered lowballed figures, significantly.

If Undertale dodging took place in normal time the light would travel at 9993.08 kilometers per frame. The speed of light in an actual Undertale dodging segment is .0001016 kilometers per frame.

Meaning the timescale of an Undertale dodging stage is... 983578866.61 x actual speed. or 29507365998.3 'frames' per actual second.

As you can see, Frisk is capable of dodging back and forth in front of the light in the couple of seconds it takes to get to them via their perceptive timeframe, and Sans is capable of stealing the initiative from Frisk and dodging (effectually, no less) their attacks, even though their reaction speed is that high. As we all know, if your opponent can reflexively react to your dodging faster than you can react to them, you will be hit in any kind of combat, thus we can determine that sans must be able to react fast enough to dodge attacks from beings that percieve light that slowly. This is assuming my timescale calculations are accepted, of course. Regardless, the fact remains that the blasters are well beyond the speed of light.

 

[Aurasuke]

ok then, thanks, as things stand though it's like this

speed unequalized, accel stomps due to massive reaction speed advantage

speed equalized first strike wins

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>Massive Reaction Speed advantage

>MHS vs Relat+

Is there something I'm not getting or..?

 

[Northern_Wind00]

ok then, thanks, as things stand though it's like this
speed unequalized, accel stomps due to massive reaction speed advantage

speed equalized first strike wins

I'm not exactly sure he would have a reaction speed advantage, due to the timeframe calc, but I'll agree to the latter. I do think Sans would get the first strike, however.

 

[Aurasuke]

well it's like this, according to what is said about accelerator his reaction which pretty much ties in with his calculation speed should be MFTL+ due to calculations in base form. Basically I posted it up there. I will now quote myself.

lso I don't know if I mentioned this but in this battle Accelerator probably has the faster reaction speed. Sans is realitivistic+ in reaction speed according to his page, while Accelerator has the mind of over 100 supercomputers. The amount of calculations per second for tree diagram is way beyond you're average supercomputer. Now think of how many calculations he would need in order to rearange San's skull with his ribs? Probably 1 or 10 at most if he's really stressed out. Now think of how many calculations per second a supercomputer usually does. Around 33,860 trillion calculations per second in our world, in index, probably somewhere on the magnitude of 10^100 times more. For accelerator in awakened form, he doesn't need to touch sans to manipulate his vectors or rearange his body and killing him (like turning him into a ball by rearanging his particles). Accelerator in base form has more calculation ability than 100 tree diagrams. His angel form is expoentially more if not unlimited.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well I don't know if Calclations can lead to action. If he cannot attack or dodge as fast he think then it isn't really reaction speed.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

well it's like this, according to what is said about accelerator his reaction which pretty much ties in with his calculation speed should be MFTL+ due to calculations in base form.

And yet, by feats, he's only clocked in at MHS+, and passively reflecting light. he's never calced anything anywhere near as fast as sans beams.

 

[Aurasuke]

by feats that's his combat speed/flight speed, nothing to do with reaction speed.

The author explicitly stated his brain was more powerful than 100 supercomputers in base form. WInged form is exponentially higher.

 

[Blahblah9755]

That would apply to his passive barrier reflection speed, and mental reaction speed, but I doubt it could be applied to physical reaction speed since it's unknown if he can physically make his body move that fast

 

[Northern_Wind00]

by feats that's his combat speed/flight speed, nothing to do with reaction speed.
The author explicitly stated his brain was more powerful than 100 supercomputers in base form. WInged form is exponentially higher.

"Massively Hypersonic reactions/close combat speed"

Calc speed =/= Reaction Speed.

 

[Aurasuke]

^Doesn't matter, he can control vectors without touching them in awakened form, he can just rearange Sans and win in less than like 10^-100 seconds.

 

[Aurasuke]

"Massively Hypersonic reactions/close combat speed"

Calc speed =/= Reaction Speed.

Yeah, he can calculate vectors without touching them, but it's more effective for him to use his wings. Obviously people in index have higher durability and potentially hax in the case of Gabriel. There's literally no way for Accel to beat Gabriel with vector manipulation alone.

For sans he only has one HP, Accel can just manipulate the wind around Sans strongly and he probably gets killed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeh no, even things with 0 attack in Undertale are Wall Level so a simple breeze won't kill Sans.

Well the thing is, can he move vectors or attacks with them using only his callcation speed?

 

[Northern_Wind00]

"Massively Hypersonic reactions/close combat speed"

Calc speed =/= Reaction Speed.

Yeah, he can calculate vectors without touching them, but it's more effective for him to use his wings. Obviously people in index have higher durability and potentially hax in the case of Gabriel. There's literally no way for Accel to beat Gabriel with vector manipulation alone.

For sans he only has one HP, Accel can just manipulate the wind around Sans strongly and he probably gets killed.

That's assuming he can manipulate a vector well beyond the speed of Frisk's attacks, but it's also important that sans has the higher /reaction/ speed here. Reaction speed gets the first attack off, even if Accel can calc his attack, he can't perform it faster than Sans can obliterate him. That's my thoughts, anyway.

 

[Aurasuke]

Well the thing is, can he move vectors or attacks with them using only his callcation speed?

Pretty much, but they aren't as powerful as if he directly uses his wings. Basically if he's fightning someone like Gabriel (which he wasn't even using his wings because he was in base form) he needs to touch her to do any real damage. We've never seen angel accelerator in a serious fight though, though he did stop Fiamma's telesma attack on the earth that was supposedly continent level.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Well the thing is, can he move vectors or attacks with them using only his callcation speed?Pretty much, but they aren't as powerful as if he directly uses his wings. Basically if he's fightning someone like Gabriel (which he wasn't even using his wings because he was in base form) he needs to touch her to do any real damage. We've never seen angel accelerator in a serious fight though, though he did stop Fiamma's telesma attack on the earth that was supposedly continent level.

Sans obliterates Frisk in, at the very most, 2.2 seconds. If my timescale is taken into account, it's WAY shorter than that, something in the 1/200,000,000ths of a second range, with his attacks.

"We've never seen angel accelerator in a serious fight though,"

This would be the crux of the problem. By feats, he's not been seen serious, but that doesn't mean we can assume anything. As things stand, saying that he's beyond where he's been shown is exactly the same as saying Saitama is. The appropriate response is "so what, we assume he's infinite until proven otherwise?"