Sans Vs Ryuunosuke (7-2-0) (GRACE)

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I've rightfully removed the misinformation from Ryuu's profile. Now let's see how yall proceed.
Currently looking for mods to answer my Q&A about precog (even tho i don't believe im wrong because it's literally on the profile and its just massive cope otherwise) to put a stop to the repetitive yapping about the precog when you all have no knowledge of the series and are misinterpreting. Once that's complete, Sans wincon chance drops to the negatives, Refuse to let ryuu's soul get taken especially when the ops only objective here is to strawman how stuff works in STR (without knowledge) and overestimate their character.

• Still no proof Sans can speak as fast as he can move so Ryuu blitzes non the less and if he tries to dodge Ryuu has like Two Sets of ANPR to anticipate and slap sans to death
• SI is assuming Ryuu is just gonna stand there not moving despite having all the time in the world to attack, even more than normal due to his perception and is a out of character argument against him (But yall wouldn't know that cuz u don't know the anime now do u )
• Bias coming from the opposite side trying to make things look bad on my end with insults and downplay towards my character even purposefully misinterpreting and using characters who don't even compare like frisk to make a valid point. (Im willing to argue this point to the death 🗣 even tho i proved that in my paragraph in the 2nd page) you all went to lengths such as using misinformation on the profile (Shion haha) which i contended to validate a wincon.....

They don't. It says shinpei for a reason. They're two different people but they fight within the same body, it should be removed cuz I didn't put that. + Ive already explained that ryuunosuke is willing to kill those he perceives as enemies

Despite me mentioning this earlier, you all still manage to use weakness as a validaton of wincon. It shows how ignorant and bias yall are, not caring about what the opposition (a literal supporter of the verse) has to say and push your idea even if they're wrong. Crazy work man, crazy work.

 

[Comiphorous]

I've rightfully removed the misinformation from Ryuu's profile. Now let's see how yall proceed.

Now, not to be that guy here (i am being that guy) but can't help but notice that you didn't do that with a CRT...

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Profile > Supporter’s Words

That's funny cuz said supporter just removed misinformation off the profile. Quirks of being the one and only, I, Supporter-san

Lol, he speaks an entire sentence before Chara can strike him (who has Hypersonic+ speed)

1. Um sir, ngl Undertale got some goofy stuff cuz Idk much that was happening but that just seems like a monologue to me which is pretty common in fiction. That's not evidence of being fast in regards to any sort of speed.
2.That isn't clear evidence that sans can speak at superhuman speeds cuz it can be passed off as something else. Evidence for stuff like this would be that one beat box game that looks like Undertale where the characters literally rap to hurt others. Has no voice amplification (To talk faster) or nothing so.....
3. Speed is equalized and seeing the distance, Ryuu can cross the distance in the time it takes sans less than half a letter IF hes just standing there not wanting to fight. Ryuunosuke won't even hear his first words because his mouth is gonna be moving in slow motion as he approaches him . See why perception hax is key?? For Ryuunosuke to listen to a sentence of sans, its gonna take 20 seconds for the guy to even project 2 words

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Now, not to be that guy here (i am being that guy) but can't help but notice that you didn't do that with a CRT...

Minor stuff don't need crts. And being a supporters means i have the right to make edits, even a little profile tweaks, I've been informed by ant the last time i did that.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Won't be replying (I've said enough) /taking votes until the Q&A is answered by a mod. Reason being, we cant come to an agreement for the precog stuff which is dragging the thread beyond the River Nile for reasons. When we get a answer, then we can proceed because it's really not going anywhere currently.

 

[Comiphorous]

1. Um sir, ngl Undertale got some goofy stuff cuz Idk much that was happening but that just seems like a monologue to me which is pretty common in fiction. That's not evidence of being fast in regards to any sort of speed.

Why do you need proof that someone can talk as fast as they move??? thats a basic thing a human can do. it should be assumed he can do that unless it's specified otherwise.

3. Speed is equalized and seeing the distance, Ryuu can cross the distance in the time it takes sans less than half a letter IF hes just standing there not wanting to fight. Ryuunosuke won't even hear his first words because his mouth is gonna be moving in slow motion as he approaches him . See why perception hax is key?? For Ryuunosuke to listen to a sentence of sans, its gonna take 20 seconds for the guy to even project 2 words

Again, no, most humans can talk as fast as they can move. this is downright incorrect and misinformation.

Minor stuff don't need crts. And being a supporters means i have the right to make edits, even a little profile tweaks, I've been informed by ant the last time i did that.

removing a notable weakness that was being debated in this thread isn't 'minor'.... i'll be taking this somewhere else.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Why do you need proof that someone can talk as fast as they move??? thats a basic thing a human can do. it should be assumed he can do that unless it's specified otherwise.

No it isn't? Humans do basic stuff like miving from point A to Point B before President Obama can make a speech to the state. Stop reaching. San is gonna be saying a whole sentence up to paragraph monologue similar to how he persuaded the killer. And that's again not happening b4 Ryuu blitzes.

Again, no, most humans can talk as fast as they can move. this is downright incorrect and misinformation

He won't be saying "I love you". He's gonna actively convince Ryuu to not attack him and that's again not happening b4 ryuu closes 20 meters and oneshots. This is getting repetitive.

removing a notable weakness that was being debated in this thread isn't 'minor'.... i'll be taking this somewhere else.

It wasn't being debated. Infact my valid point on it was ignored. No one contended it but used it as evidence to make a point which is NOT debating the weakness. Go ahead and report this matter, It doesn't bother me because I have countless evidence here to prove that the opposition was being dishonest with the weakness stuff. Infact, its a blessing.

 

[ShionAH]

You did not count @StrymULTRA's vote

Its 6 - 2

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sans FRA

And that's Grace

 

[StrymULTRA]

Won't be replying (I've said enough) /taking votes until the Q&A is answered by a mod. Reason being, we cant come to an agreement for the precog stuff which is dragging the thread beyond the River Nile for reasons. When we get a answer, then we can proceed because it's really not going anywhere currently.

Mods' answers have only value in CRTs not this lol.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You can't just edit away an entire justification on a profile without a CRT, especially when it's being discussed mid-debate.

 

[Roachman40]

sans trapped in the 'fight weebslop anime characters' torment chamber #4958

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Mods' answers have only value in CRTs not this lol.

Admins* that's what i shouldve said. Content Mods & Thread Mods don't have much of an answer when it comes to implemented stuff.

You can't just edit away an entire justification on a profile without a CRT, especially when it's being discussed mid-debate.

Except nothing was being discussed mid debate, I was asked about the weakness. I've already cleared up the misconception with the mods and im clean of the everything

Anyway I should update the title. Ima see what the votes look like.

 

[Catbowtie]

Give me some hour to respond, possible a day, I see this is in grace, but if it doesn't end before I get my post out then I'll post it. If Grace does end before I get my post out, I simply won't post it.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Give me some hour to respond, possible a day, I see this is in grace, but if it doesn't end before I get my post out then I'll post it. If Grace does end before I get my post out, I simply won't post it.

Btw I applaud you in advance and currently for responding to most of my stuff during your time here despite the controversy that happened with the others . Shows that you're reliable when it comes to sticking to a point and defending it no matter. You made this fun for me so thx

 

[Catbowtie]

The reason it didn't hit is because Haine was there.

• His shot did hit shide in the future
• Haine used her own precognition which is the literal same as Ryuunosuke as she has the same ability as he does being the mother of all shadows.
• Haine protrays the information to shide b4 two seconds registered so he could react despite Ryuunosuke forseeing

Aka you don't know the full context of the panel even if you read it. Ryuunosuke's own future sight was read by Haine for Haine to counter it which is why it didn't hit. To counter this ability, You need similar precognition to Ryuu or Resistance to Fate as there's quite literally nothing you can do to conventionallly dodge an attack that hit you ahead of time. This point isnt attacked to the bone (get it cuz sans funni ) My point still stands. The only reason it didn't hit because Ryuunosuke's own future was read in the moment.

Woah woah woah wait wait. I understand now. You mean to tell me that Shinpei has attacks that Sans can't dodge? What the hell? The profile's wording makes it hard to understand. How does that work with a knife? Does he foresee...the knife being in Sans' skull 2 seconds into the future? Shinpei literally attacks Sans in the future? That feels like it's a Stomp.

How does he accomplish this? I need a reason as to why he's able to do this. Like He doesn't seem to be acasual? Or is it due to calculating his attack pattern? Does he know the future himself? I can bring up a point and some evidence to debunk this once and for all.

Each timeline is a different timeline the one...**** it, just read this. Sans is just calculating Frisk's attacks. So yea, pure skill coming from Sans.

Im not able to show scans rn because imgur is buggy. Haine was outsmarted and defeated by Shinpei and his team after he went to attack her main body and despite her using shinpei's own intelligence against him (as she became him literally) and knowing where he is as she placed a mark on him. He was one step ahead which led to her demise.
Shide was the final boss who they ganged up on but barely defeated given enough time for ushio to create a weapon that does as he cannot be conventionally killed. He wanted to steal the eye that gives them power over time to destroy the world.

Bueno

Because shinpei has fought against people who can do similar and more than what sans can do to evade attacks from the future against himself, those who not only see the future but know 100% of his plans at all times. Aka sans gets killed here due to the sheer skill difference in that department. I think y'alls knowledge being unknown of what shinpei can do here while comparing it to inferior comparison of skills is unsettling.

LMAO (This is my reaction Shinpei's skill department. I think it's is nuts in the crazy way)

With pleasure~ Not only see the future but use his own thoughts against him through sheer calculations and not via his own loops because even those were used against him.

The Objective Mode is a state where shinpei manifests another version of himself (kinda like a spiritual state) who calms him down even in a state where he's basically dead and thinks up countless possibilities and accurate ways to escape the situations he's in. If sans is simply just convincing him to become his friend and 'stop the violence' , then shinpei will agree due to how pacifistic he is, and since sans is such a incredible yapper ryuunosuke will be affected too as he's also easy to convince as long as he's not bloodlusted. Again i believe the Social Influence arguments stand as I think about how shinpei and ryuunosuke usually are but if it's a case where sans would manipulate them then it would go otherwise but since that isn't the case...

Nope. It isn't the case. You're right. Objective mode would just tell Shinpei that in order to get out of the situation he's in, he just listens to and agrees with Sans.

Not what i said. He'd close the distance faster than sans can even think to start teleporting. Ryuunosuke while his tendons smashes, some inner organs failed and on the verge of death can still amplify himself to such speeds that he effortlessly blitzes those faster than him before they can even process what happened WHILE THEY LITERALLY KNEW THE FUTURE.

Well, uhm, IA Teleportation? What is the increase on the speed? I don't even think it matters to talk about this point because Sans gets slammed by attacks that are 2 seconds into the future. How does that even work? Does it appear in the future? Or just it just...manifest suddenly on Sans' body?

Countered this above. The guy has to activate the ability meaning ryuunosuke has time along with prior knowledge with his precog.
Here's how it'll play out;

1. They meet face to face
2. Ryuunosuke gets a vision of sans simply yapping for 2 seconds
3. Ryuunosuke forsees his attack hitting sans (Again sans cannot dodge this as he doesn't have any ability that lets him either know about it/escape that fate)
4. Ryuunosuke sees sans activating his teleportation ability from the future to evade the attack
5. Ryuunosuke rushing literally sees sans in slow motion (Since he sees 1 second as 5 seconds for free falling objects) Ryuunosuke has a total of at least 10 seconds to simply amplify himself and move so fast that sans cannot process left from right
6. Minecraft skeleton death noises

With the information you've given me, Sans straight up dies at step 3. I don't think his IA Teleportation even covers future attacks. The profile said these attacks are "sure-hit" but that can have a bunch of nuance to it. How does Shinpei's "foreseeing attacks" work? He sends the attack into the future, right? So, does the attack does appear in Sans' future, so he can dodge it? Or...dude I'm so confused.

1. Similar abilities, Shinpei's has more perks and abilities to it. Simple, I never denied this. He doesn't get the ability to go back beyond his opponent was even born and change their past now does he? Stop making it seem like frisk can do 100% what shinpei can with his abilities because I can debate that to death and show the difference lol.

Ehhhh, yea, Frisk can.

Im not realizing most of the points validating the teleportation argument cuz they doesn't even make sense & are mostly strawmanning my points and i believe even the youngest generation could figure this out. Heres why; How does perception have anything to do with stopping someone from casting a move? That was simply not what i implied or stated LMAOO. His perception hax makes it so his sense of time will perceive sans in a constant almost standstill for a period of time with sans at that point being in the process of "thinking" to use his hax and at that point ryuunosuke will be perceiving that moment and everything else around him as normal..... It's that simple, if perception hax was all ryuunosuke had, if he can't cross the distance in time then he'll be able to sense sans (with his sensing hax ofc) the moment he teleports to a new location and change his movement there. What's good about that is sans will be exerting himself while ryuunosuke will be experiencing a average sunday afternoon jog since time is slowed and the moment sans decides to stop to either launch an attack or start yapping, it gives ryuunosuke the objective to just end him.

Sans' IA Teleportation is instinctive, but oh my god, that perception hacks is ****ing nuts. Pretty sure Sans would just get tired out faster and use his Fourth Wall Hacks. (That is if this match doesn't just get turned into a Stomp from Shinpei's 2 seconds into-the-future attacks)

Ummm son listen here, im not being condensing here but.... You do understand that 90% of this wiki who of the following don't;

• Have acasuality type 3
• Have 2-A durability
• Resist all the hax shinpei's ability has including the fate manip stuff
• Resist EE on the scale it's projected

WILL NOT and i repeat WILL NOT survive the initial first loop shinpei enters right? At baseline they're at best the same ability but my good sir please do not take the opportunity to downplay shinpei's abilities for the sake of making a point, it's clear it does more than just reset/reverse time. You won't even be able to figure out shinpei can loop without having 2-A cosmic awareness which no one in undertale does just as how it's simple for monsters to obliterate frisk 10 times despite him knowing future events after solely reseting time countless times.

Good point! Let's add 2-B Cosmic Awareness for Sans (Sans actually built a machine to map out all of the timelines. Something something, ask me for my source if you want it), anyways. I have nothing in particular to say to this.

Womp womp. I don't know sans abilities much. Im attacking what i see on the profile and/or what you all mentioned here/seen in other threads involving sans. And it's pretty ironic you're coming at me for 'misinterpretation' after completely gathering your own thought to assume the abilities of shinpei and ryuunosuke like their precog and time abilities which is far from the truth .

"Womp womp" my brother in Christ are you /srs or /j and do you understand the implications of that etymology?

Also, the wording on the profile makes it hard to understand what Shinpei and Ryuunosuke are capable of doing. Originally, I understood "foreseeing" as "seeing actions taken 2 seconds into the future." I thought that "sure-hit" was only done by way of Shinpei attacking where his opponent will be, effectively making it a sure-hit. I did not know that Shinpei is quite literally attacking Sans 2 seconds into the future. How the **** does that work? What does that even look like?

So does each and every cast of summer time rendering lol. Haine specifically can tell when shinpei loops meaning she can formulate a plan to seize him at any moment which utterly fail, summer time rendering doesn't just rely on "knowing you can reset" to counterattack, they use brainpower to completely and utterly destroy the opponent, basically think accurate possibilities that'll work despite having a major advantage against you. These guys know both what happened in the past reset and the future one along with having more experience of using their abilities and are actively using it against just a normal guy. It simply isn't comparable to frisk nor comparable to what sans has faced. The downplay is insane here.


In conclusion. Sans just dies here from their first encounter and nothing was attacked but misinterpreted and strawmanned for the sake of downplay. I also sense complete bias to sans side due to how shinpei's and ryuunosuke's abilities are being straight up lied upon without even having knowledge of how they work.

I'm not downplaying. I'm acknowledging what Shinpei can do and comparing it to Undertale, and seeing if Undertale has the same abilities. Frisk...is doing the same thing... They're doing the same things...


The bolded sentences just makes this match a Stomp. Sans has no way to defend, dodge, or even avoiding attacks that are 2 seconds into the future. There is literally no situation where Sans can win. Ironically, that also makes it where if Shinpei listens to Sans' Social Influencing, it's also a Stomp because Shinpei can do absolutely nothing to win against Sans.

No... It's the exact opposite and im afraid that you are the problem here and simply a womp womp moment.... the profile literally says it in his precognition slot which is why its "Time Based". Shion whats the cope for.

It says he can see his attack hitting the opponent in the sudden future...... Why are you downplay for the sake of making my side seem bad? The last sentence in the hax slot literally has a sentence that explains how the hax works, he doesn't just see the future but forsee his stuff reaching the opponent in thge latter future.... Again why the cope, it's on there.

Another case of bias for sans team. You're so caught up with coping and irrelevancy that you completely ignored what i said here. And even tho my point here is valid, if u wanna bring up the "its profile thoo" bs then it still doesn't stop ryuunosuke from knocking sans unconscious which he'd easily be able to do.

And there we have it guys..... He goes ignoring the crucial part of the statement but respond to the justified insults.... My guy.... Do you think resisting forcefield creation means you're immune to Gojo's infinity? Do you think resisting power mimicry means you're immune to Ben 10's power mimicry with the omnitrix??? No . Some abilities have multiple hax embedded into them with some abilities needing entirely different resistances to be unaffected by them.... Like the force from star wars, its much more than just resisting telekinesis or having higher LS, i believe some inverse can lift the literal soul and even if they're matched with someone who resist telekinesis, what if their soul had immeasurable weight? See what im saying, some abilities don't cover one specific hax category especially when some hax go hand in hand like time and causality which are hax on this site.

Again quit coping and grow up bruh, it's not that serious.

Womp womp. That's not the important issue now is it? Your job is to argue against my claims, not cry because i insulted you (Justified too ngl). Just ignore them or insult me back just like you just did.... Call me childish again like u did b4

Because you were? Why are you mad about something that's on the profile, i don't get it

Um sir. Hint Hint, the guy isn't manipulating causality. He's looking at a future where his attack hit sans via foreseeing it. Again Hence why its "Time Based". It's More of a super OP clairvoyance along with a mix of cosmic awareness and time hax than causality, because causality means you'd be physically implementing your attacks ahead of time which isn't the case here.... If that's your problem, i can add one of these hax to the page rn and get rid of the stuff ur strawmanning aslong as there's a reasonable explanation along with evidence aka ant says i can.
Although it wouldn't make a difference as time being linked covers it all and im not a cheap shot to be adding stuff mid debate like the other members here Hint Hint

This is all uncalled for (Alongside other messages that I haven't replied to) Fallen Angel, what the hell man? You send four messages saying "waiting for counterarguments" like a debate-bro fired up and ready to go. When you metaphorically and spiritually fix your glasses to your face, say the equivalent of "uhm, actually," and then explain to people in a condescending tone why Sans loses, people are just going to ignore you. If you calmly explained to us why Sans loses without the rest of the extra textual jabs and such, then we would've figured out this was a Stomp match way sooner than later. It took me (I think a page?) to figure out what you meant when you said "seeing attacks in the future" I spoke too much because now I'm getting myself into it too, so I'm just going to contact a moderator and call it a day. Do not respond to this paragraph, I will not be continuing this topic of conversation further than this. I will ignore anyone's response to this if and when I see it.

Sans would not start with his strongest move, Ryuunosuke outskills then and wins, voting Asta FRA

My brother in Christ (I know you don't care but,)

“Weakness: Shinpei's nature will stop him from wanting to kill others unless he's bloodlusted ”

How evil is Ryuunosuke?

• Clairvoyance (Is capable of sensing Frisk's LOVE and EXP at the end of any Neutral Route)

LOVE is a person's Level of Violence and EXP is basically how much people someone has killed. Sans only kicks out his strongest attack against Chara because Chara is unashamedly, purely, and completely evil. If anything, Sans might just use Social Influencing on Ryuunosuke.

Even if Ryuunosuke has killed like, one or two people, as long as he doesn't fit the parameters of Genocide Route Frisk, he should be fine.

• Social Influencing (Sans was able to trick and make Chara spare him with just his words in the Genocide Route even when Chara is a coldblooded murderer[1])

He isn't evil in general but has comit countless murders against the evil, kinda like a vigilante. I doubt this will affect Ryuunosuke with Shinpei by his side. Shinpei can deduct lies and stuff with his Objective Mode, so potent he can deduct stuff from Shide who has been manipulating his mother Haine for over 300+ years aswell as manipulating the whole island of Hitogashima which has over 100 ppl for 300+ years aswell

What. So...just Neutral Route Frisk? But better? Like what Shion is saying, Sans isn't lying to Shinpei.


Voting Sans for being able to Social Influence Shinpei.

The Objective Mode is a state where shinpei manifests another version of himself (kinda like a spiritual state) who calms him down even in a state where he's basically dead and thinks up countless possibilities and accurate ways to escape the situations he's in. If sans is simply just convincing him to become his friend and 'stop the violence' , then shinpei will agree due to how pacifistic he is, and since sans is such a incredible yapper ryuunosuke will be affected too as he's also easy to convince as long as he's not bloodlusted. Again i believe the Social Influence arguments stand as I think about how shinpei and ryuunosuke usually are but if it's a case where sans would manipulate them then it would go otherwise but since that isn't the case...

Also after reading Page 4, I'm going to just get a moderator. This is out of my hands and should go to a trusted superior.