sans physical "downgrade"

[Funnimane]

Monster kid is a random child with no real feats that suggest being above the level of strength one would presume for a child
Monster kid has 2 attack and 2 defense
Sans has 1 attack, 1 defense and 1 hitpoint (which is apparently accepted by the wiki)
Monster kid, statistically, is able to kill Sans with one hit
10-B exemplifies teenagers or unathletic adults, 10-C exemplifies children
It's barely a difference, but "below average human level" just makes more sense for Sans' physical tier; somehow though, I feel like this will be heavily opposed with disproportionately convoluted counterarguments :v

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sans is in the Glass Cannons category because he's got 9-A TK so

 

[Funnimane]

Sans is in the Glass Cannons category because he's got 9-A TK so

For example:

• Haruhi Suzumiya has godlike reality-warping, but is physically just a teenage girl.
• Sans has only 1 HP, but his hax allow him to fight others who are far stronger than him.
• Elsa (Frozen) has only building level durability despite her powerful ice manipulation.
• Star Butterfly's wand has been stated to be able to blow up universes, but she herself only has building level durability.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay then remove that, I know for a fact that on a ton of other CRTs, HP values aren't accepted lmao

 

[FinePoint]

Okay then remove that, I know for a fact that on a ton of other CRTs, HP values aren't accepted lmao

Stats are accepted for Undertale because they're canon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Stats are accepted for Undertale because they're canon.

ATK and Defense are, yes, HP, not so much.

 

[Funnimane]

ATK and Defense are, yes, HP, not so much.

really the HP doesn't matter much, my argument is just that sans is weaker than a child, whether it's on a level that the child one-shots him or not

 

[DaReaperMan]

really the HP doesn't matter much, my argument is just that sans is weaker than a child, whether it's on a level that the child one-shots him or not

Mad Dummy (Mad Mew Mew)

Mad Dummy is a ghost that lives inside a dummy located in the Garbage Dump. It is apparently the cousin of the dummy seen in the Ruins. Regardless of how the protagonist interacted with the first dummy, Mad Dummy will be enraged by it. It attacks Frisk with the intention of stealing their SOUL...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think you missed that Sans is superior to Glad Dummy.

"Human level physically (Is the weakest Monster in the underground, even below Monster Kid in terms of raw strength, his ATK and DEF are equal to each other. His stats make him superior to Glad Dummy),"

 

[Funnimane]

I think you missed that Sans is superior to Glad Dummy.

ah, fair enough :v
while I'm here, imma switch the topic to another sans-related inconsistency I just remembered

Sans telekinesis = 9-A by doing 1 damage to 9-A Frisk by slamming them into a wall, which can't actually kill them even if they have 1 HP left
end-game neutral/pacifist Frisk = "at least 8-B" by doing 1-20+ damage to "at least 8-A, likely far higher" Flowey
dunno what to do with that, but it's there

 

[DaReaperMan]

ah, fair enough :v
while I'm here, imma switch the topic to another sans-related inconsistency I just remembered

Sans telekinesis = 9-A by doing 1 damage to 9-A Frisk by slamming them into a wall, which can't actually kill them even if they have 1 HP left
end-game neutral/pacifist Frisk = "at least 8-B" by doing 1-20+ damage to "at least 8-A, likely far higher" Flowey
dunno what to do with that, but it's there

Game mechanics, most likely.

Determination=varying power. Pacifist lvl 1 Frisk at Peak DT can literally facetank attacks from a Low 2-C Asriel.

 

[Funnimane]

Game mechanics, most likely.

Determination=varying power. Pacifist lvl 1 Frisk at Peak DT can literally facetank attacks from a Low 2-C Asriel.

so, what are you trying to say?

 

[DaReaperMan]

so, what are you trying to say?

That Pacifist Frisk against Omega Flowey was at a way higher level of DT than Genocide Frisk as we currently accept it

 

[Funnimane]

That Pacifist Frisk against Omega Flowey was at a way higher level of DT than Genocide Frisk as we currently accept it

I agree, what I'm trying to say is that the raw power gap between Sans and Geno-Frisk seems wider than the gap between Paci-Frisk and PS Flowey, so it's strange that Sans and Geno-Frisk are in the same tier while Paci-Frisk and PS Flowey are one tier apart

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree, what I'm trying to say is that the raw power gap between Sans and Geno-Frisk seems wider than the gap between Paci-Frisk and PS Flowey, so it's strange that Sans and Geno-Frisk are in the same tier while Paci-Frisk and PS Flowey are one tier apart

PS flowey was weakened to be able to be actually harmed, at the beginning of the fight, when he's full power, you can't even scratch him with 1s

 

[Funnimane]

PS flowey was weakened to be able to be actually harmed, at the beginning of the fight, when he's full power, you can't even scratch him with 1s

assuming you mean it's because he had less souls at that point,

1. when he's lost all the souls, you get notified that he's weakened with a "Flowey's defense dropped to 0", you don't get anything like that during the rest of the fight
2. having 20 damage dealt to him when he lost 5/6 of the souls and having hundreds of damage dealt to him when he lost all of them is really disproportionate

instead of Flowey getting weaker, I interpret it as Frisk steadily getting more confident, thus more determined and more powerful, the further they get into the fight; this is also seen at the end when Frisk starts off dealing 100+ damage and ends up dealing 2-300+ damage overtime and then 700+ for the final blow
this happens with other bosses like Asgore and even Asriel, where at the beginning Frisk is decently hurt by basic attacks and at the end Asriel does decimal points to them with a full power attack

 

[LordTracer]

I think you missed that Sans is superior to Glad Dummy.

Glad Dummy’s stats are wonk though.

It’s 10-B on the basis of scaling above a baseline 10-C and scaling to its own durability without a proper reason for doing so. If anything, it should be downgraded as well.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Glad Dummy’s stats are wonk though.

It’s 10-B on the basis of scaling above a baseline 10-C and scaling to its own durability without a proper reason for doing so. If anything, it should be downgraded as well.

I was talking about it's durability, I think it's 10-B AP is wonk as well, but it's durability is fine.

 

[LordTracer]

I was talking about it's durability, I think it's 10-B AP is wonk as well, but it's durability is fine.

Ah, fair.

 

[Funnimane]

snowdrake's mom is 10-C for doing 1 damage to 9-B Frisk and sans is 9-A for doing 1 damage to 9-A Frisk lol

 

[Funnimane]

bump