• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sanji vs Vergo

Definitely an interesting fight:

Sanji's main wincons will be to to use diable jambe to negate his durability and to keep up with his better observation haki.

However Vergo is likely stronger than Sanji even wbolecake, even ignoring Sanji possibly being weaker when he fought Vergo, Vergo was still able to break Sanji's leg without using Koka and has the option of using it as well as the full body version of it.

But assuming Diable Jambe can bypass Koka Sanji likely wins due to better speed scaling.
 
Without the Raid Suit? Probably Sanji. We didn't see any real improvement in his technique from the timeskip besides learning the airwalk and improving his observation haki.

But Vergo has vastly superior armament haki.
 
Potential necro... 2+ months >_<

Vergo is physically tougher overall, as he was capable of casually standing through two Diable Jambe strikes and acted like they didn't bother him (despite OBVIOUSLY dealing damage), yet he was not even defending himself from what we've seen.

  • Tekkai from what we know would have no affect against Sanji's Diable Jambe, but it would lessen the impact of Sanji's kicks.
  • Vergo's Full Body Haki would also grant him protection from Sanji's strikes including the heat from Diable Jambe.
Sanji by comparison has no such level of Haki, nor physical hardiness. He would absolutely need his Raid Suit to win since he is otherwise lacking physically.

Speed in general leans towards Sanji, but Vergo's Soru keeps him in the game.

Sanji's Invisibility may prove to be a problem since we do not know how good Vergo is with Kenbunshoku, but if Vergo can at least maintain a basic application consistently, this should not be a problem when detecting Sanji's position.

Vergo held back a lot of his fighting ability during his short skirmish against Sanji. The fact that he withstood two Diable Jambe kicks without protection and could easily get back up implies that if he were fighting for real, Sanji would stand little chance in actually winning (at least back then).

Currently, we have to consider what is realistic. Is Sanji going to win just because he is wearing a suit that gives him extra protection and invisibility--the latter which might as well be useless against any Kenbunshoku user?

Vergo takes this for the sole reason that we just have not seen Sanji get any stronger outside of his Raid Suit, and we know Vergo was absolutely not fighting at his best when nearly breaking Sanji's leg.

Vergo has AP advantage via superior Haki and Shigan. Durability advantage via withstanding Diable Jambe on top of both Tekkai and superior Haki. Comparable if not superior (travel) speed w/ Soru. Sanji's only advantages (Kenbun and Invis) are spotty at best.

PS: If it were me that put Sanji as "outspeeding Vergo" on his profile, i swear, my past self is stupid. Vergo was clearly equal if not faster >_>.
 
Would Soru increase Vergo's reaction? Because he couldn't react to Diable Jambe's kicks without being shot away
 
Vergo fra. Additional reasoning that Vergo was a decent amount stronger than Smoker without full body Haki, I doubt Sanji is way stronger than Smoker
 
Vergo, most of the reasons have been said in this thread, e.g he fodderized Smoker something that there's no evidence Sanji could do and he has vastly superior CoA + Rokushiki techniques I guess. Sanji does have better CoO based on showings but that won't really let him overcome Vergo's mastery of CoA.
 
Vergo not fodderized Smoker, both were fighting on an equal footing. Smoker just opened his guard to return Law's heart and suffered for it.

Sanji proved to be superior to Vergo without CoA in power and speed with the Diable Jambe, Haki's power expansion is unknown but as we know it increase the AP, all we can say is that Vergo would be equal to Diable Jambe with it.

Soru makes Vergo superior in locomotion speed but not in combat or reaction. Both would have the same AP (This with 1-legged Diable Jambe and Sanji can use it on both). Tekkai would be effective fused to Haki but even with Tekkai Vergo it was being easily damaged by casual blows from Diable Jambe.

I don't see how Vergo would put all that pressure just for having a better CoA, I see just the opposite.
 
Ryuga21 said:
Vergo not fodderized Smoker, both were fighting on an equal footing. Smoker just opened his guard to return Law's heart and suffered for it.
Sanji proved to be superior to Vergo without CoA in power and speed with the Diable Jambe, Haki's power expansion is unknown but as we know it increase the AP, all we can say is that Vergo would be equal to Diable Jambe with it.

Soru makes Vergo superior in locomotion speed but not in combat or reaction. Both would have the same AP (This with 1-legged Diable Jambe and Sanji can use it on both). Tekkai would be effective fused to Haki but even with Tekkai Vergo it was being easily damaged by casual blows from Diable Jambe.

I don't see how Vergo would put all that pressure just for having a better CoA, I see just the opposite.
Click to expand...
Maybe fodderize was a bit of an exaggeration, but he overpowered and no sold everything Smoker did and he was holding back. Sanji couldn't replicate this based on his showings.

No, we can say that everytime they clash kicks Sanji's leg is going to be in extreme pain and almost broken as was shown before and the "Sanji's body was injured" argument doesn't fly with me, injuries don't make you less durable and that scene was shown to clearly demonstrate Vergo being superior to Sanji. Also as demonstrated when Luffy was clashing with Katakuri outside of G4, inferior CoA makes it extremely difficult to even match let alone overpower your opponent so Sanji truly can't do much here, everytime they clash Sanji is going to be in extreme pain and lose the clash.

Full body Vergo probably feels nothing more than minor pain from Sanji's attacks, Doffy thought that Vergo could no sell Law's attacks and even though he was wrong, Law is vastly superior to Dressrosa Sanji so it doesn't matter. You see the opposite because you favor Sanji in everything, it's obvious from your past threads.
 
Ryuga21 said:
Would Soru increase Vergo's reaction? Because he couldn't react to Diable Jambe's kicks without being shot away
Click to expand...
In the manga, Sanji's Diable Jambe strikes were given to him for free. The first strike was from an ambush, and the second one, we just see Vergo pop back up like it was nothing. Then once Vergo started actually fighting, Sanji's leg is cracked, and he was being visibly pressured. Vergo was restricting himself to his legs, which is the biggest mockery to Sanji I've seen post time-skip. Sanji later admits that if the fight kept going like that, he would have either lost his leg, or the fight.

As for Soru increasing reaction speed, no. It's just a movement speed mechanic. It would allow him to close gaps and evade at incredible speeds, though.

@LGamer - Vergo can fly too, and he wasn't doing that during the fight. You make it seem as though Sanji was holding back where-as Vergo was not. Vergo was not even using Haki during the fight, nor was he using his arms, nor was he using Rokushiki. He didn't even pull out his Bamboo stick. A damaged Sanji using Diable Jambe was still being pressured hard by a very casual Vergo.
 
Little note: Soru users are able to react at those speeds, otherwise they would move so fast they couldn't control trajectory (ala Kuro's Shakushi), so Vergo actually has higher reactions than his base movement speed.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Ryuga21 said:
Would Soru increase Vergo's reaction? Because he couldn't react to Diable Jambe's kicks without being shot away
Click to expand...
In the manga, Sanji's Diable Jambe strikes were given to him for free. The first strike was from an ambush, and the second one, we just see Vergo pop back up like it was nothing. Then once Vergo started actually fighting, Sanji's leg is cracked, and he was being visibly pressured. Vergo was restricting himself to his legs, which is the biggest mockery to Sanji I've seen post time-skip. Sanji later admits that if the fight kept going like that, he would have either lost his leg, or the fight.
As for Soru increasing reaction speed, no. It's just a movement speed mechanic. It would allow him to close gaps and evade at incredible speeds, though.

@LGamer - Vergo can fly too, and he wasn't doing that during the fight. You make it seem as though Sanji was holding back where-as Vergo was not. Vergo was not even using Haki during the fight, nor was he using his arms, nor was he using Rokushiki. He didn't even pull out his Bamboo stick. A damaged Sanji using Diable Jambe was still being pressured hard by a very casual Vergo.
Click to expand...
Sanji of course wasn't holding back, his body was just damaged a lot before. That's why his leg cracked and all the other stuff. Vergo was also not at his full power, but he wasn't that suppressed as you are saying, you can clearly see he took damage too. For sure he didn't use his bamboo stick and his full body haki, but the fight was off screen so here I think that he used some punches and the haki as the anime suggests.

But let's assume Vergo was as suppressed as you are saying, well, Sanji's diable jambe was not at his peak, se the difference against Doflamingo where he used it in both his legs and he even't used Hell Memories which is superior to Jinbe's attacks...
 
Do not quote large walls of text.

The leg was cracked by Vergo's kick, not as a result from the damage his body sustained from Caesar. Damage that causes bleeding does not make your bones any weaker. And Vergo is as suppressed as I say because of the number of things I listed. No arms, No Haki, No Rokushiki, No weapon.

You can NOT use the anime to justify any arguments due to the vast number of inconsistencies shown throughout the series in that regard (We actually made it a rule, so anime arguments are invalid). It's like saying Sanji is superior to Daifuku's Genie because the anime depicts him overpowering it when the Manga consistently shows the contrary and Sanji's inability to defeat it. Vergo only used kicks. Anime has 0 hold here.

If you want to argue Hell Memories is > Jinbe, then make a revision thread. This is yet to be proven, and thus is not acceptable to suggest. Sanji simply finished off an opponent that Jinbe could hurt. You're comparing an attack that literally went straight through Wadatsumi (therefore Wada can not even scale to Jinbe's AP) to a follow-up attack that finished the opponent off.

Sanji using Diable Jambe on one leg does not suggest he was holding back at all. Most of his attacks only require one leg in the first place. The only time he used Diable Jambe on two legs is when he used the 2nd leg as a follow up, or did a flurry of kicks. And while we're on the subject, Hell Memories has no support as being even stronger than his Diable Jambe.

Case and point, Sanji has no reason to be scaled > let alone = to Vergo, who easily bested him physically in the past while holding back his entire arsenal. That's regarding AP.

In terms of Durability, Sanji is screwed, probably even with his Raid Suit. Vergo with NO BOOST nearly broke Sanji's leg when he performed a static block. Had Vergo used Haki, it would have been a quick ending for Sanji's right leg.
 
The Calaca said:
Little note: Soru users are able to react at those speeds, otherwise they would move so fast they couldn't control trajectory (ala Kuro's Shakushi), so Vergo actually has higher reactions than his base movement speed.
Click to expand...
And I guess since Vergo also reacted to Law's attacks, he should scale via reaction speed anyways.
 
@CinCameron20

I will not quote your message as you suggested to me.

Now, about Sanji:

If his body was damaged it means that even his bones were less durable, that's why Vergo broke his leg. It's true that Sanji also uses diable jambe to just one leg, but you can clearly see the difference between the flame of the diable jambe he used against Vergo and the one he used against Doflamingo, there is a huge difference between the intensity of the flame. Also, Sanji would have defeated Daifuku as in the anime if he would have used diable jambe, something he didn't, and remember than Yonji in the manga was capable of holding the Genie and was as strong as him phisically if not stronger. Yonji is the same guy who got his face broke by Sanji when his skin is really hard and durable.

About Vergo, he clearly took damage, see his face after being kicked by Sanji, he was suppressed but not that much, if he was suppressed as you are saying then he was stupid because he was bleeding when he could have overpowered Sanji.

So we have Vergo that was suppressed but not that much and a less durable and strong Sanji because of his body being damaged, with a weak diable jambe and without using his strongest moves as the Hell Memories.
 
His bones don't get weaker just because he was bleeding and suffered burn injuries.

You're saying it would be stupid for Vergo to suppress himself by a lot when the fact is that he's actually quite arrogant and that's in-character for him. When fighting Smoker, he frequently let himself be struck only to later mock Smoker's strength before taking him out with his final strike.

  • If Vergo was a fighter who actually put forth his best from the start, neither Sanji nor Smoker would have been able to hurt him, because Vergo would not have been messing around, and actually used his Full Body Haki just to end the fights in a short period. Meanwhile, vs Smoker, he was fighting him while restricting his Haki usage while Smoker was going all-out.
You also claim Sanji would have defeated Daifuku when the canon literally contradicts this. Claiming Yonji = Genie therefore Sanji > Genie is ridiculous due to comparing different characters with vastly different fighting styles and the fact that Yonji ambushed Daifuku's Genie.

I will not pursue the argument further. This is clear bias towards Sanji.
 
@Cincameron20 His body was stated to be damaged in general, why his bones shouldn't have been weaker when the body of Sanji took the impacts of the blows? I'm saying that it would have been stupid for Vergo suppressing himself THAT much, he was at his full power in "base" and with in "base" I mean without Full Body Haki and Bamboo stick. Yeah, I claimed that Sanji would have defeated Daifuku, the canon doesn't contradicts anything because If you have read the manga you should know that Sanji didn't use the Diable Jambe against the Genie. The only thing you can say is that Daifuku's Genie > Base Sanji, something that I already knew. Vinsmoke Judge, who should have been defeated by Sanji if he hadn't used the human wall, fought Charlotte Snack who was a former commander and by simple logic stronger than Daifuku, Oven and the likes who cannot even dream to become a sweet commander. Sorry, but for your way of speaking seems like is you and not me the one who has some preferences here, don't underrate Sanji because you probably don't like him.
 
"don't underrate Sanji because you probably don't like him". The bias is intense.

Again, Vergo in-character holds back a lot. Prove Vergo was at "full power", because again, he was restricting himself heavily against Sanji. The dude is a puncher and was only using his legs to engage Sanji. You're incredibly biased for assuming Vergo was actually trying to defeat Sanji with full intent.

Don't overrate Sanji simply because you think he's stronger than his actually is. Your whole comment is riddled with bias--especially with "if"s and "maybe"s. They are irrelevant.

Fact: Daifuku overpowered Sanji. There's no case of Sanji overpowering the Genie, period.

Fact: Judge defeated Sanji--foul-play or not--Sanji was incapable of harming him and was bested.

You want to bring up Yonji being weaker than Sanji?

Fact: Yonji destroyed a weapon from a character that smacked Sanji out of the sky and hurt him. Interesting. You want to talk about Yonji losing a fight that happened off-panel and we know nothing regarding the context of said fight.

Fact: We never see Judge vs Snack in canon material, and we only see one panel of Judge who had suffered some injuries. We have no clue how the fight went.

Fact: We don't know how strong Snack is, so why even bring him up? He lost to Urouge, who in turn lost to Cracker.

If you can not come to admit the false-hood of your argument, then there is nothing more to discuss. You are heavily biased towards Sanji and it is shown with your lack in ability to admitting the fact that Sanji came up short in literally every engagement that has been discussed regarding him.

Vergo outright wins this.
 
@CinCameron20 I tried to be the most kind possible, but with someone who's literally telling me that I'm fanboy and that is not capable of reading correctly the manga I really don't know what to say. If it's not a problem, I'll be a little bit arrogant.

Your "facts" can be easily debunked, let's start:

"Fact: Daifuku overpowered Sanji. There's no case of Sanji overpowering the Genie, period."

I have to repeat myself in the clearest way possible: Sanji didn't used his diable jambe. The difference in power between a base Sanji and a Diable Jambe Sanji is really huge.

"Fact: Judge defeated Sanji--foul-play or not--Sanji was incapable of harming him and was bested."

Sanji used a small fire diable jambe as you can clearly see , Sanji was suppressed and when he was ready to go all out Judge used the human wall.

"Fact: Yonji destroyed a weapon from a character that smacked Sanji out of the sky and hurt him. Interesting. You want to talk about Yonji losing a fight that happened off-panel and we know nothing regarding the context of said fight."

It doesn 't matter he was off-screen, we know that Sanji is stronger and the arrogant Yonji admitted it.

"Fact: We never see Judge vs Snack in canon material, and we only see one panel of Judge who had suffered some injuries. We have no clue how the fight went."

Vinsmoke Judge is the supreme commander of Germa 66 as you should know, he's at least equal if not stronger than his sons for his role. Vinsmoke Ichiji showed how strong he is with bruising Perospero's face badly with a simple punch and he also perforated Ove who has the most robust body among all the Charlotte as confirmed here.

Judge needed to use a human wall to stop a Full Power Sanji, the cook's intent was to use a kick against his father but he just decided to stop the blow after he saw the human wall. Sanji lost for his kindness, but was clearly stronger, read what is written in the manga and do not just see the drawings, thank you for your time.
 
Purgy said:
Ryuga21 said:
Vergo not fodderized Smoker, both were fighting on an equal footing. Smoker just opened his guard to return Law's heart and suffered for it.
Sanji proved to be superior to Vergo without CoA in power and speed with the Diable Jambe, Haki's power expansion is unknown but as we know it increase the AP, all we can say is that Vergo would be equal to Diable Jambe with it.

Soru makes Vergo superior in locomotion speed but not in combat or reaction. Both would have the same AP (This with 1-legged Diable Jambe and Sanji can use it on both). Tekkai would be effective fused to Haki but even with Tekkai Vergo it was being easily damaged by casual blows from Diable Jambe.

I don't see how Vergo would put all that pressure just for having a better CoA, I see just the opposite.
Click to expand...
Maybe fodderize was a bit of an exaggeration, but he overpowered and no sold everything Smoker did and he was holding back. Sanji couldn't replicate this based on his showings.
No, we can say that everytime they clash kicks Sanji's leg is going to be in extreme pain and almost broken as was shown before and the "Sanji's body was injured" argument doesn't fly with me, injuries don't make you less durable and that scene was shown to clearly demonstrate Vergo being superior to Sanji. Also as demonstrated when Luffy was clashing with Katakuri outside of G4, inferior CoA makes it extremely difficult to even match let alone overpower your opponent so Sanji truly can't do much here, everytime they clash Sanji is going to be in extreme pain and lose the clash.

Full body Vergo probably feels nothing more than minor pain from Sanji's attacks, Doffy thought that Vergo could no sell Law's attacks and even though he was wrong, Law is vastly superior to Dressrosa Sanji so it doesn't matter. You see the opposite because you favor Sanji in everything, it's obvious from your past threads.
Click to expand...
An argument against this is that Sanji has better CoO and speed than Vergo, making it difficult for Vergo to land a blow on Sanji as well. The fight will keep going on with Vergo tanking hits while Sanji dodges the hits.


It is a stalemate imo because both CoA and CoO would run out eventually.
 
Ebitan34 said:
An argument against this is that Sanji has better CoO and speed than Vergo, making it difficult for Vergo to land a blow on Sanji as well. The fight will keep going on with Vergo tanking hits while Sanji dodges the hits.


It is a stalemate imo because both CoA and CoO would run out eventually.
Click to expand...
Except that's not how it went down in their actual fight lol... Why do people act like Sanji is this insane speedster that just evades every attack thrown at him? His CoO is decent, nobody denies that, but ya'll act like he's Goku using MUI or something. Vergo is going to land hits, and they're going to hurt, extensively. It won't end in a stalemate at all but you're free to be wrong I guess.
 
Purgy said:
Ebitan34 said:
An argument against this is that Sanji has better CoO and speed than Vergo, making it difficult for Vergo to land a blow on Sanji as well. The fight will keep going on with Vergo tanking hits while Sanji dodges the hits.


It is a stalemate imo because both CoA and CoO would run out eventually.
Click to expand...
Except that's not how it went down in their actual fight lol... Why do people act like Sanji is this insane speedster that just evades every attack thrown at him? His CoO is decent, nobody denies that, but ya'll act like he's Goku using MUI or something. Vergo is going to land hits, and they're going to hurt, extensively. It won't end in a stalemate at all but you're free to be wrong I guess.
Click to expand...
The FACT is, Vergo didn't even land a single hit on Sanji throughout the entire fight, Sanji was the one landing the blows on Vergo. Every single hit Vergo tried to land on Sanji was either evaded or blocked by him.

Hell, Sanji was the one that landed two powerful strikes that sent Vergo crashing into the wall with bloodied face.

Even if Vergo does hit Sanji it won't be before Sanji hit him like 10 times?

The strike ratio of Sanji to Vergo would be like 10 : 1.

Vergo suffered some injuries from Sanji's strikes as well as evident from his bloodied face.


Sanji's leg got hurt during the fight, great. Why don't you mention the countless times Zoro has been hurt Pre-timeskip and how he still manages to triumph over his opponents?

And yes, we are free to be wrong and are free to keep the discussion going. If fictional wrongs and rights were so clear cut, why the **** would we even need discussion threads in the first place.

Stalemate is the best bet because this is a fight of Speed versus Durability, CoO versus CoA.
 
1. Vergo was toying with him, did you miss the part where Vergo starts trying and Sanji's leg almost breaks and he's clearly overpowered?

2. "Sanji's leg got hurt during the fight, great", poor attempt at trying to play it off as a bruise or something, his leg was nigh-broken, meaning any time Sanji goes in for a kick, that's going to be the result.

3. Sanji evaded like one attack, he was forced to block 90% of them, and as I already pointed out, a serious Vergo kicking Sanji is going to result in Sanji's leg breaking if he tries to block it as was already demonstrated, and funnily enough Vergo wasn't even using Haki when it happened, if he uses Haki Sanji's leg probably snaps in two like a twig.

4. Vergo didn't even use Haki lmao and he was clearly overpowering Sanji

5. Sanji's first attack was a suprise attack and it had no lasting damage on Vergo who got up moments later completely unscathed and he wasn't even using Haki to defend himself, the second was Vergo underestimating him, demonstrated nicely when Vergo starts trying and is clearly superior.

6. He's outmatched in every single way except CoO.

7. Not even sure why you tried to bring Zoro into this, probably because you're running out of arguments.

8. Want to reiterate that Vergo wasn't even using Haki here, if Vergo and Sanji clash whilst Vergo is clad in Haki, it might actually obliterate Sanji's leg entirely.
 
I refuse to argue further simply because it is clear that there is heavy bias for Sanji. The moment I get called out for "not liking" his character is the moment it becomes rather clear this is a battle of favoritism instead of who would actually win a fight. This isn't the first time this has happened, and it's annoying to argue with people who deny straight facts with head-canon and opinions.

@Vio - The facts were not refuted at all. Try re-reading instead.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DaReaperMan
Sanji decides to hunt a Master Assassin (0/3/0)
2 3
Replies
82
Views
2K
MonkeyOfLife
MonkeyOfLife
Kachon123
Vinsmoke Sanji vs. Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki
2
Replies
53
Views
3K
Accelerated_Evolution
Accelerated_Evolution
Ryuga21
Jaganshi Hiei vs Sanji Vinsmoke
Replies
15
Views
1K
Ryuga21
Ryuga21
Vinsmoke Sanji vs Finn the Human
Replies
6
Views
1K
Tots_Real
Tots_Real
Vinsmoke Sanji vs Travis Touchdown
Replies
30
Views
2K
Kachon123
Kachon123
Back
Top