Saitama playing with stones

[Shadow_x007x]

This calculation

Saitama playing with stones​

Why did Saitama wait for the rock to travel 1.05624398431 meters before moving? It's clear from the scene that Saitama knows Geryuganshoop is behind him. He doesn't need to wait for Geryuganshoop to pick up the rock, throw it 1.05624398431 meters away, and then turn around and move his hand. This calculation seems too high a ball. So I have about 3 proposals:

Proposal 1​

Saitama will start to move when Geryuganshoop Start throwing rocks.

• Saitama's moviment: 1.4815 meters
• Rock's speed: 224844343.5 m/s
• Saitama - Geryuganshoop: 1.31158639909 meters
• Saitama's speed: (1.4815×224844343.5)/1.31158639909 = 253972513.84 m/s or 0.85 c (Relativistic+)

Proposal 2​

Saitama turned towards him. Geryuganshoop So he threw the stone at him.

• Saitama's moviment: 0.8704 meters
• Rock's speed: 224844343.5 m/s
• Saitama - Geryuganshoop: 1.31158639909 meters
• Saitama's speed: (0.8704×224844343.5)/1.31158639909 = 149212066.18 m/s or 0.49 c (Relativistic)

Proposal 3​

Referring to this feat from the anime, we see Saitama turn and move his arms up to shield his face before Geryuganshoop will start attacking again Therefore we will delete this calculation, concluding that Saitama moved before Geryuganshoop will start attacking.

Comments from the calculation group​

Agree (1): @Damage3245 (This value should at least be used, if not removed.)
Agree (2):
Agree (3): @Damage3245 (Completely agree), @TheRustyOne, @Mr. Bambu
Disagree: @CloverDragon03
Neutral:

 

[Damage3245]

Your objections to the current calc look valid to me.

Since we don't know that Saitama waited until the rocks were sent moving towards him before he began moving, I wouldn't have a problem with proposal 3.

 

[Kachon123]

I think it's a bit silly to say that Saitama started moving before the rocks were sent at him. Manga is meant to show sequences chronologically and it only goes: Geryuganshoop appears behind Saitama -> rocks get launched -> Saitama turns around and blocks them.

Us not seeing Saitama specifically turn around and raise his hands doesn't mean that he did that beforehand. All that means is that the chain of movements happened so consecutively that the only important part to note is Saitama actually blocking the rocks. This seems like a weird change.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

There was nothing to confirm that he hadn't moved before. He was aware of the presence. Geryuganshoop And we can still see that. Geryuganshoop The stone was not lifted at that time. That's why I said he didn't need to wait for the stone to pass the distance. 1.05624398431 meters first, he began to turn around and cup his hands over his face. It didn't seem necessary. Plus it's a very high ball.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't even know why the anime version's being considered here. It's different enough to where I'd advise against using it to inform decisions regarding the manga version of the feat. I mean, you can't even see the movement of the rocks in the anime to begin with.

And the other versions of the calc don't really seem to necessarily be better, and if anything, I'd say they translate more awkwardly compared to the current calc. Idk, it's kinda hard to describe. These movements tend to be raising your arm to block at the last second rather than putting your arm up and just waiting. Not to mention, "it's a high ball" isn't an argument, nor is it a valid reason to change the calc. Unless "big number = bad" is now a legitimate argument, which would be deeply concerning.

Overall, I'd say keep the original calc. I don't see a need to change it

 

[Damage3245]

The issue isn't using the anime version over the manga version; it's that the manga version doesn't have enough evidence supporting the assumption that Saitama both turned around and raised his arm only when the rocks were 25 centimeters away from him.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The issue isn't using the anime version over the manga version; it's that the manga version doesn't have enough evidence supporting the assumption that Saitama both turned around and raised his arm only when the rocks were 25 centimeters away from him.

You're supporting the use of the anime's version to suggest that this sort of calc shouldn't be used at all. I'd think that bringing up how the anime shouldn't be relevant is pretty important.

Also, Proposal 2 doesn't even make sense in-verse because it's slower than the rock throwing, despite Saitama casually intercepting it to the point of treating it like a bad joke

 

[Damage3245]

You're supporting the use of the anime's version to suggest that this sort of calc shouldn't be used at all. I'd think that bringing up how the anime shouldn't be relevant is pretty important.

Also, Proposal 2 doesn't even make sense in-verse because it's slower than the rock throwing, despite Saitama casually intercepting it to the point of treating it like a bad joke

I merely think that the anime sheds light on things that we don't see directly in the manga. The manga is snapshots, moment by moment. The anime - while I'm not advocating that it is the "primary" source - does provide additional information that can be used to clarify something that is potentially unclear in the manga version.

Saitama ending up being slower the rocks via this calc is irrelevant because Saitama is still casual either way; the calc doesn't imply that he only has a limit slower than the speed of the rocks.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah that's cool and all but if the anime's being used to say "let's not calc this feat at all," that's a completely different beast - and one that I think is worth nipping in the bud.

Also, Saitama being slower than the rocks via the calc is relevant. The in-verse context tells me that even this casual Saitama is faster than them, so being slower in a fan calc doesn't seem reasonable

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah that's cool and all but if the anime's being used to say "let's not calc this feat at all," that's a completely different beast - and one that I think is worth nipping in the bud.

The point still remains even if you discount the anime's depiction entirely.

There isn't enough evidence to support the calc's assumptions.

Also, Saitama being slower than the rocks via the calc is relevant. The in-verse context tells me that even this casual Saitama is faster than them, so being slower in a fan calc doesn't seem reasonable

I don't understand what you mean here; the fan calc resulting in Saitama being slower doesn't actually mean that Saitama is slower. A calc is not a factual objective proof of how fast the character is in reality. It's only the result of our methods & pixelscaling to achieve a reasonable approximation (usually).

Even if Saitama was Massively Hypersonic as a result of a calc instead of Relativistic, so what? We already accept that he's casually Masstively FTL. It wouldn't change anything.

 

[Golden_Void]

The point still remains even if you discount the anime's depiction entirely.

There isn't enough evidence to support the calc's assumptions.


I don't understand what you mean here; the fan calc resulting in Saitama being slower doesn't actually mean that Saitama is slower. A calc is not a factual objective proof of how fast the character is in reality. It's only the result of our methods & pixelscaling to achieve a reasonable approximation (usually).

Even if Saitama was Massively Hypersonic as a result of a calc instead of Relativistic, so what? We already accept that he's casually Masstively FTL. It wouldn't change anything.

The Boros fans are going to draw and quarter you in the middle of the street, that's why. It affects 2/3 of his keys. Which funny enough, given the talk about using the anime, his Meteoric Burst moon kick relies exclusively on anime timing.

Agree with Damage and the OP though. The implication would be Saitama knowing Geryuganshoop is behind him, then going "peekaboo" to catch the rocks at the last second.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Boros fans are going to draw and quarter you in the middle of the street, that's why. It affects 2/3 of his keys.

I think it only affects his Meteoric Burst key, since that's the only one with a FTL rating

 

[Golden_Void]

I think it only affects his Meteoric Burst key, since that's the only one with a FTL rating

Released and Armored Boros scale from Saitama who scales above Geryuganshoop via the same feat. MB gets FTL based on that calculation and Saitama's reactions, though he has his own relativistic+ feat using the anime moon kick.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Relativistic+ ratings seem to come from scaling above Geryuganshoop, so no, I don't think those would be affected at all. The FTL one for MB Boros would go tho

 

[Golden_Void]

The Relativistic+ ratings seem to come from scaling above Geryuganshoop, so no, I don't think those would be affected at all. The FTL one for MB Boros would go tho

What proposal is being agreed upon?

 

[CloverDragon03]

What proposal is being agreed upon?

Removing or recalcing the FTL calc, nothing with the Rel+ ratings (the Relativistic+ rating just comes from the rock pitches being stated to be near light-speed)

 

[Golden_Void]

Removing or recalcing the FTL calc, nothing with the Rel+ ratings (the Relativistic+ rating just comes from the rock pitches being stated to be near light-speed)

Oh ok.

But that's also weird. He gets the rating simply from watching the fight and being confident about fighting Saitama. So the assumption there is that either of them can move as fast as Geryuganshoop's throwing speed? Upscaling from the reaction to that feat makes sense.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not sure about the scaling myself, but that does seem worth bringing up - if the calc stays, anyway

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah - scaling can be handled when it comes time to make a CRT.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

I'm wondering, is our current conclusion to delete the calculation due to the manga's ambiguity?

As for whether Boros will remain FTL or not, it will be up to CTR after getting the true conclusion of this first.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm wondering, is our current conclusion to delete the calculation due to the manga's ambiguity?

As for whether Boros will remain FTL or not, it will be up to CTR after getting the true conclusion of this first.

No, my stance is still in favor of keeping the calc as is

But if the calc gets removed, there's no need for a CRT, just axe the FTL part of Boros's profile

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Bump

 

[Kachon123]

Have any conclusions been made

 

[Damage3245]

Have any conclusions been made

Vote is split; Clover thinks that calc shouldn't be altered at all or removed.

I think the calc should be removed, or at the very least altered so that it isn't assuming Saitama only started moving when the rocks were 25 centimeters from him.

 

[EnderLord8]

Saitama playing with stones
Why did Saitama wait for the rock to travel 1.05624398431 meters before moving? It's clear from the scene that Saitama knows Geryuganshoop is behind him. He doesn't need to wait for Geryuganshoop to pick up the rock, throw it 1.05624398431 meters away, and then turn around and move his hand.

Why do we also assume anything other than that? Saitama is generally pretty relaxed and doesn't put all his effort into enemies far below him, the only one we know is the line of events: Geryuganshoop appears behind Saitama -> rocks get launched -> Saitama turns around and blocks them.

Anything beyond that falls into the realm of assumptions.

This calculation seems too high a ball.

I believe that simply changing the method of a calculation because it looks like a High-Ball is a very bad and weak reason, especially because this would not be a High-Ball for Saitama or even for characters of Boros' caliber when an FTL feat of 4.33c it was done by characters theoretically beneath him.

Proposal 1​

Saitama will start to move when Geryuganshoop Start throwing rocks.

Proposal 2​

Saitama turned towards him. Geryuganshoop So he threw the stone at him.

I disagree with both as it is simply making even more assumptions than the more direct line presented in the manga panels, just as Kachon made clear in his first comment

Proposal 3​

Referring to this feat from the anime, we see Saitama turn and move his arms up to shield his face before Geryuganshoop will start attacking again Therefore we will delete this calculation, concluding that Saitama moved before Geryuganshoop will start attacking.

We only use anime to obtain deadlines as far as I know, so this should be invalid, plus this argument opens the door to using anime in other cases.

Furthermore, using a scene in the anime that occurs differently is a bit strange considering that shortly before Gery simulated the gravity of a black hole on top of Saitama and the throwing of rocks occurred in a different room from the manga, so it's a bit strange to use the anime for reference.

 

[Damage3245]

Why do we also assume anything other than that? Saitama is generally pretty relaxed and doesn't put all his effort into enemies far below him, the only one we know is the line of events: Geryuganshoop appears behind Saitama -> rocks get launched -> Saitama turns around and blocks them.

Anything beyond that falls into the realm of assumptions.

Incorrect; that sequence of events is itself an assumption you're presenting there.

You're assuming Saitama turned around after the rocks were launched. That isn't shown.

We only use anime to obtain deadlines as far as I know, so this should be invalid, plus this argument opens the door to using anime in other cases.

Also incorrect; anime can often be used to clarify something that is ambiguous in the original manga depiction. We aren't replacing the manga with the anime... we're getting more information to make a more informed jugement.

 

[EnderLord8]

Incorrect; that sequence of events is itself an assumption you're presenting there.

You're assuming Saitama turned around after the rocks were launched. That isn't shown.

And in the same way the logic proposed in the OP is based on assumptions that Saitama simply turned around.

Also incorrect; anime can often be used to clarify something that is ambiguous in the original manga depiction. We aren't replacing the manga with the anime... we're getting more information to make a more informed jugement.

Well, then I didn't know that anymore, I only knew about the deadlines.

Although I kind of doubt the use of the anime for explanations, when we know that during the production of the anime there were changes outside of Murata and One's control, then using the anime for explanations seems kind of bizarre to me.

 

[EnderLord8]

"It's clear from the scene that Saitama knows Geryuganshoop is behind him".

By the way, what in this scene leads you to the conclusion that Saitama knew that Geryuganshoop was after him?

Because at least in my interpretation I did not reach this conclusion.

 

[Damage3245]

And in the same way the logic proposed in the OP is based on assumptions that Saitama simply turned around.

Which is supported by the additional context of the anime adaption showing us that Saitama did indeed turn around.

Alternatively the option is that is a scene is too ambiguous to calc without making overly generous assumptions, then we can simply not use it.

By the way, what in this scene leads you to the conclusion that Saitama knew that Geryuganshoop was after him?

Because at least in my interpretation I did not reach this conclusion.

He can hear him?

 

[EnderLord8]

Which is supported by the additional context of the anime adaption showing us that Saitama did indeed turn around.

Alternatively the option is that is a scene is too ambiguous to calc without making overly generous assumptions, then we can simply not use it.

Frankly, I only support using the anime to get the deadline, unless we want to get the entire anime, so particularly between using the anime as a basis to recalculate the feat or having to remove the calculation due to ambiguity, I prefer simply remove it.

He can hear him?

The sequence of scenes implies a very instantaneous period of time, for Gery's speech to have a significant impact on Saitama's action from my perspective, but this doesn't matter, I just want to know more about HIS reasoning and not yours.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

By the way, what in this scene leads you to the conclusion that Saitama knew that Geryuganshoop was after him?

Because at least in my interpretation I did not reach this conclusion.

Sound at Geryuganshoop To speak with him must Saitama turn away.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Frankly, I only support using the anime to get the deadline, unless we want to get the entire anime, so particularly between using the anime as a basis to recalculate the feat or having to remove the calculation due to ambiguity, I prefer simply remove it.

I'm not trying to push the anime over the manga. I'm just suggesting another possibility. Saitama doesn't need to wait for the rock to be thrown at him before he reacts, since he can do it before then. And as Damage has requested, the manga doesn't give us that much clarity. There's no reason for Saitama to wait for the rock to travel almost all the way to him before he starts moving, since we already know Geryuganshoop is behind him from the sound. And we don't even see Geryuganshoop lift up a single rock to throw at him.

 

[Golden_Void]

Saitama doesn't even have any motion lines drawn to indicate he rapidly turned around. I agree with the removal.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm fine with the removal as well.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

A strange feat. I suppose I'd agree with its removal.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Score: 3 to 1. We've concluded the thread. Do I need to wait any longer?

 

[Damage3245]

Score: 3 to 1. We've concluded the thread. Do I need to wait any longer?

I think we've got enough of a consensus. You can probably apply the changes now.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

This calculation only affects one character, Boros. I can revert his speed to before FTL, right or I have to create a new CRT.

 

[Damage3245]

This calculation only affects one character, Boros. I can revert his speed to before FTL, right or I have to create a new CRT.

That will be fine. If anyone wants to change Boros' speed any further than that they can make a new CRT.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

That will be fine. If anyone wants to change Boros' speed any further than that they can make a new CRT.

I've reverted the changes to Boros from the previous period. If people wanted to upgrade him, they would rebuild that CRT, but since the old CRT that made him FTL was based on a calculation that was rejected in this thread, there shouldn't be a reason to rebuild the CRT ( I'm thinking like this. I don't know if it's correct.) You can close this thread. Thank you.