Saint Seiya Infinite Speed Upgrade

[StekFence]

Alright. So the premise is scaling God tiers like God cloth Saints, and Gods, to Infinite speed. This will extend from anyone in the range of Thanatos, all the way to Zeus. The Arguments go as follows:

Argument 1
1. In episode G assasin, Seiya(who at this moment in time is weakened) is fighting against a Gladiator named Sigurd. Sigurd wields a special sword called Gram. Sigurd is a Demigod, who is described as having the power of a god. Sigurd is also overwhelming Libra Shiryu, with ease. This means that Sigurd is > 7th sense users in all stats.

2. Seiya is actually able to match Sigurds Danmaku, with his own. Sigurds Danmaku is described , as Infinite projectiles. These attacks are described as “An attack of the Gods”

3.Sigurd was holding Back, and once he stopped, his stats did indeed rise. Despite using all his power, he still needed a Cheap Shot to land a hit, meaning Seiya at this point still scales higher.

4. Seiya is rejuvenated by Shiryu and Athena, Causing him to not Be dead from heart damage, and also awaken his god Cloth. This is a stat jump that Shocked Sigurd entirely from its speed and power. The only reason why Sigurd doesn’t get defeated by this, is because Seiyas Stats rapidly start to plummet.

Argument 2:
5. God Cloths are Unlocked when the user burns their Cosmos Infinitely High whilst having a gods blood on their armor. Cosmo increases will increase all stats. So an Infinite Cosmo boost = Infinite stat boost.

Argument 3
6. In Episode G Requiem, Seiya is fighting someone who can Multiply a single Attack by infinity. This creates Infinite attacks.

7. Shura later appears, fighting the same guy, and notices “An Infinite amount of violent assaults coming from all directions.” He notes that light speed(which is the basic speed of a 7th sense user) can't dodge this, and so he uses the 9th Sense(which is the power of a god) to intercept. So the power of a god is needed to fight against infinite speed attacks.

8. Additionally, Shura has absorbed the power of All Gladiators from different dimensions, which includes Sigurd, who has the baseline infinite speed statements

So, these are my arguments for scaling anyone comparable to or above God Cloths to Attack/Reaction Infinite Speed. This would also scale to movement, as The speed of a Saints attack is not different from their movement speed. This is Because when a saint is stated to be able to move at Mach speeds, or light speed, they are also said to be able to Attack at those speeds. Therefore, Attacks/reactions is 1:1 to movement.

Agree:Lynie,Unshakeable
Disagree:Lancelot,GodlyChar
Neutral:Hasty

 

[StekFence]

It’s a fairly big revision, affecting Abzu,Shun,Apollo,Artemis,Athena,Chronos,Cronos,Hyoga,Shiryu,Shoko,Eris,Gaia,Hades,Hypnos,Regulus,Lucifer,Mars(?),Yoma,Koga,Seiya(duh),Tenma,Abel,Ikki,Pontos,Poseidon,Saturn,Tartarus,Thanatos,Typhon,Your Anus,Rhadamanthys, and Zeus.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

2. Seiya is actually able to match Sigurds Danmaku, with his own. Sigurds Danmaku is described multiple times, as an Endless/Infinite rainDrops of projectiles. These attacks are described as “An attack of the Gods”

One of your examples this part is mistranslated, in the Japanese manga it just says many or numerous (数多).

Spoiler

This rules out this scene, since the characters are only indicating a large number of hits, it is not that they can see every single hit to give an accurate number. This type of hyperbolic narrative is quite common in attacks with a large number of hits, but it doesn't mean infinite speed by any means.

There is nothing to indicate infinite speed in any form.

Argument 2:
5. God Cloths are Unlocked when the user burns their Cosmos Infinitely High whilst having a gods blood on their armor. Cosmo increases will increase all stats. So an Infinite Cosmo boost = Infinite stat boost.

Seiya of the Hades Arc, is not the Seiya of Assassin, and the Seiya of the Hades Arc is infinitely stronger.

7. Shura later appears, fighting the same guy, and notices “An Infinite amount of violent assaults coming from all directions.” He notes that light speed(which is the basic speed of a 7th sense user) can't dodge this, and so he uses the 9th Sense(which is the power of a god) to intercept. So the power of a god is needed to fight against infinite speed attacks.

Shura in this scene says he will overcome this with faster-than-light speed (even the title of that chapter is "Superluminal Speed" [超光速度]), he never says he will overcome this with infinite speed, this is only a FTL speed feat. And the characters in this franchise are already FLT even massively FTL. In addition, Shura does not have to counter each of these attacks to block it, as this attack has a very limited range (only a few meters) and only needs a single attack with great power and speed to stop it.

An extra detail, what an ugly translation.

Spoiler

When Shura in that scene only describes that it exceeds the speed of light or superluminal speed (超光速度), the title or name of the chapter.

 

[StekFence]

Seiya of the Hades Arc, is not the Seiya of Assassin, and the Seiya of the Hades Arc is infinitely stronger

Same cloth first of all. Secondly, the events of the classic did indeed happen in Assasin

 

[Hasty12345]

Given that infinite speed is faster than light, I don’t think Shura’s feat is debunked by him not saying “infinite speed”, that’s a very poor argument.

 

[StekFence]

Shura in this scene says he will overcome this with faster-than-light speed (even the title of that chapter is "Superluminal Speed" [超光速度]), he never says he will overcome this with infinite speed, this is only a FTL speed feat. And the characters in this franchise are already FLT even massively FTL. In addition, Shura does not have to counter each of these attacks to block it, as this attack has a very limited range (only a few meters) and only needs a single attack with great power and speed to stop it.

He’s attempting to intercept an attack that is coming all around him, with infinite projectiles. Yes, he does state he needs ftl speeds for this, but the fact remains he countered an infinite attack, which would require infinite speed. Additionally, infinite speed is faster than light speed.

 

[Hasty12345]

Same cloth first of all. Secondly, the events of the classic did indeed happen in Assasin

This guy is never gonna budge on this, it’s best to just ignore his incredulous position.

 

[StekFence]

There is nothing to indicate infinite speed in any form.

That’s fine, since the sword itself has a statement of Infinite attacks, rather than countless

 

[StekFence]

This guy is never gonna budge on this, it’s best to just ignore his incredulous position.

But like, there’s only basically 2 differences between the classic and the past of assassin. Nothing that would scrap crossscaling.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

That’s fine, since the sword itself has a statement of Infinite attacks, rather than countless

In one of those scans it is clearly stated that there are only many attacks, so this only indicates that it is a large number of attacks, something difficult to count for the character describing it in that scene, but this does not indicate anything really infinite.

Same cloth first of all. Secondly, the events of the classic did indeed happen in Assasin

Nothing important, because in this manga we can see which characters with that Cloth were defeated by a god in a human body, something that indicates that to reach that Cloth they do not need the level that Seiya had during the Hades Arc in this manga.

He’s attempting to intercept an attack that is coming all around him, with infinite projectiles. Yes, he does state he needs ftl speeds for this, but the fact remains he countered an infinite attack, which would require infinite speed. Additionally, infinite speed is faster than light speed.

He does not have infinite speed and Shura himself clearly states that he will exceed the speed of light in that scene to counter that attack, he never mentions anything about infinite speed and only attacks with a single cut to counter the attack. Even the first attack of Brontes, Shura countered it with only the speed of light and only the second attack is when he needed to exceed the speed of light.

 

[StekFence]

Shura himself clearly states that he will exceed the speed of light in that scene to counter that attack

Infinite speed does exceed sol. By a lot in fact.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Infinite speed does exceed sol. By a lot in fact.

And, in this scene they do not describe anything that indicates infinite speed and the character himself who in normal conditions (without miracles or ninth sense) only fights at the speed of light indicates that he has to exceed that speed, so the scene is clear and they only describe superluminal speed. Even Shura blocked an previous attack by Brontes with a move at the speed of light, an attack that is also said to be infinite strikes.

 

[StekFence]

god in a human body

U mean the guy possessed by the literal strongest god not named Chronos? Who’s powers After effects is considered fearsome by AntiAiolos? The guy who wasn’t even worried about Poseidon? Seiya needed to draw on a majors Gods power to fight him, Ikki had to unlock a whole new type of armor. This is not just “some god”. Hes The God tier of the God tiers. On this wiki, god cloth Seiya is listed as Weaker than 9th sense Seiya. So 9th sense users like Shura should be normalLy stronger. Who was fighting Shura? Zeus in aiolias body. There is nothing indicating that the god cloth is different.

 

[StekFence]

he never mentions anything about infinite speed and only attacks with a single cut to counter the attack.

He mentions that the attack he is facing, is Infinite, all around, and violent. He then says that normal gold speed doesn’t cut it, so he’s gotta go further to match this. So he’s matching a stated infinite speed attack with an attack that is faster than Light. The only way this makes any sense whatsoever is if the speed Shura attacks with is infinite.

 

[Hasty12345]

Nothing in GA indicates that the requirements to activate the God Cloths are any different.

Ikki gained his god cloth by touching Athena's blood, so infinite cosmo is not inherently required.

 

[StekFence]

only the second attack is when he needed to exceed the speed of light.

The second one is the one stated to be infinite speed, so that makes sense.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

He mentions that the attack he is facing, is Infinite, all around, and violent. He then says that normal gold speed doesn’t cut it, so he’s gotta go further to match this. So he’s matching a stated infinite speed attack with an attack that is faster than Light. The only way this makes any sense whatsoever is if the speed Shura attacks with is infinite.

The normal speed of a Gold Saint is described as the speed of light and the first attack of Brontes was stopped with that speed, only during the second attack is when Shura needs to increase his power and speed to stop it, and that is when he says he will exceed the speed of light and in the scene itself is described as reaching a superluminal speed. There is nothing that indicates infinite speed in any way, when the character that normally moves at the speed of light clearly says that he will reach superluminal speed.

 

[StekFence]

In one of those scans it is clearly stated that there are only many attacks, so this only indicates that it is a large number of attacks, something difficult to count for the character describing it in that scene, but this does not indicate anything really infinite.

If you have a statement of “many“ and “infinite” then the only way these can be reconciled is if Infinite attacks is many attacks. And what do you know, it is.

 

[StekFence]

the character that normally moves at the speed of light

Where do I even begin with this.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

U mean the guy possessed by the literal strongest god not named Chronos? Who’s powers After effects is considered fearsome by AntiAiolos? The guy who wasn’t even worried about Poseidon? Seiya needed to draw on a majors Gods power to fight him, Ikki had to unlock a whole new type of armor. This is not just “some god”. Hes The God tier of the God tiers. On this wiki, god cloth Seiya is listed as Weaker than 9th sense Seiya. So 9th sense users like Shura should be normalLy stronger. Who was fighting Shura? Zeus in aiolias body. There is nothing indicating that the god cloth is different.

In Saint Seiya he is only at the level of his brothers, and he didn't have a true divine body and he didn't have his true divine armor and sacred treasures, in the manga the God Saints fought against Hades, a god at the level of that, but he had his divine body, divine armor and sacred treasures, one of the three great emperors at maximum power, something on a completely different level. Seiya's profile uses the version that fought Apollo in Overture in that description, a version of a different god who supposedly destroyed a universe with a single word, one of the best feats within this franchise.

 

[StekFence]

The normal speed of a Gold Saint is described as the speed of light and the first attack of Brontes was stopped with that speed, only during the second attack is when Shura needs to increase his power and speed to stop it, and that is when he says he will exceed the speed of light and in the scene itself is described as reaching a superluminal speed. There is nothing that indicates infinite speed in any way, when the character that normally moves at the speed of light clearly says that he will reach superluminal speed.

Any argument revolving around Shura needing to do special stuff to surpass light speed is just dumb. It’s stupid. The sheer amount of feats for Mftl is quite frankly, staggering for a verse who’s Mid tiers supposedly move at SoL.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Where do I even begin with this.

Gold Saints fight at the speed of light, this is something that is said throughout the franchise and only at some points do they exceed that speed.

If you have a statement of “many“ and “infinite” then the only way these can be reconciled is if Infinite attacks is many attacks. And what do you know, it is.

No, it only indicates a number that cannot be counted by the character describing that scene, this is a simple hyperbole, for in a later scene it only says that there are many attacks and does not give anything that indicates a number.

 

[Hasty12345]

In Saint Seiya he is only at the level of his brothers, and he didn't have a true divine body and he didn't have his true divine armor and sacred treasures, in the manga the God Saints fought against Hades, a god at the level of that, but he had his divine body, divine armor and sacred treasures, one of the three great emperors at maximum power, something on a completely different level. Seiya's profile uses the version that fought Apollo in Overture in that description, a version of a different god who supposedly destroyed a universe with a single word, one of the best feats within this franchise.

Shunades beat the god cloths in LW with his divine sword......

 

[StekFence]

Gold Saints fight at the speed of light, this is something that is said throughout the franchise and only at some points do they exceed that speed.

Yes, they are Said to fight at the speed of light. Then they cross interstellar distances in like, a minute.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Any argument revolving around Shura needing to do special stuff to surpass light speed is just dumb. It’s stupid. The sheer amount of feats for Mftl is quite frankly, staggering for a verse who’s Mid tiers supposedly move at SoL.

Literally, Shura says he needs a miracle to overcome the speed of light in his fight with Roland and then says he needs to activate the ninth sense to overcome this speed in his fight with Brontes.

Yes, they are Said to fight at the speed of light. Then they cross interstellar distances in like, a minute.

This was in the classic manga and it was the Bronze Saints, who are famous for achieving miracles that surpass even the Gold Saints on some occasions.

 

[StekFence]

Ikki considers Quadrillions of Kilometers of distance to be a realistic distance for him to move. Shaka was comparable. Nebula chain crossed at least 2000 light years in seconds. Seiya dodged at least 100 million light speed blows, with a BROKEN leg. Classic feats, that scale to the golds btw.

This was in the classic manga and it was the Bronze Saints, who are famous for achieving miracles that surpass even the Gold Saints on some occasions.

 

[StekFence]

activate the ninth sense to overcome this speed in his fight with Brontes.

Inconsistency, as even aiolia could go ftl, even in G.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Ikki considers Quadrillions of Kilometers of distance to be a realistic distance for him to move. Shaka was comparable. Nebula chain crossed at least 2000 light years in seconds. Seiya dodged at least 100 million light speed blows, with a BROKEN leg. Classic feats, that scale to the golds btw.

It was Shaka's illusion and that was the moment when he overcame Aiolia when he ignited his cosmos to the maximum. The Andromeda Chain crosses time and space to reach its goal, this can probably even be infinite speed, but this is for another topic.

Inconsistency, as even aiolia could go ftl, even in G.

Aiolia clearly states that he has to ignite his cosmos to the maximum to achieve this. In normal conditions a Gold Saint is only light speed, when they turn on their cosmos to its maximum point and literally get a miracle they can exceed this speed.

 

[StekFence]

It was Shaka's illusion

And ikki found nothing wrong with moving Quadrillions of kilometers. Perfectly normal. So normal, he couldn’t tell it was an illusion.

Aiolia when he ignited his cosmos to the maximum.

Seiyas trying to get a miracle during this fight, and he gets it. However, the miracle was for his cosmos to rise to aiolias level. Therefore, this would scale to serious aiolia anyway.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

And ikki found nothing wrong with moving Quadrillions of kilometers. Perfectly normal. So normal, he couldn’t tell it was an illusion.

Seiyas trying to get a miracle during this fight, and he gets it. However, the miracle was for his cosmos to rise to aiolias level. Therefore, this would scale to serious aiolia anyway.

An illusion and Shaka can affect Ikki's mind.

Seiya was so strong at that moment that he overcomes the speed of Aiolia's attack and dodges it, and then knocks him down with an attack that Aiolia could not dodge.

 

[StekFence]

The normal speed of a Gold Saint is described as the speed of light and the first attack of Brontes was stopped with that speed, only during the second attack is when Shura needs to increase his power and speed to stop it, and that is when he says he will exceed the speed of light and in the scene itself is described as reaching a superluminal speed. There is nothing that indicates infinite speed in any way, when the character that normally moves at the speed of light clearly says that he will reach superluminal speed.

Anyway, it’s accepted that Golds in this series move and fight at Mftl+ speeds, so the point is moot. Regardless, This would mean that we have a character moving at his normal Mftl+ speeds, sensing an incoming attacks, so he used his full power, the 9th sense. Thematically, the next logical step from being so and so bajillion times light speed is being infinite anyway. Shura def would not need anything to achieve ftl. That’s how it’s treated on the wiki, you would need a crt for it. The only thing stopping you from considering this infinite speed is the fact that Shura is saying he’s moving some unspecified times faster than light right? Well according to the wiki, and other feats, Shura is always moving at these speeds anyway, so this statement is kinda irrelevant.

 

[StekFence]

Seiya was so strong at that moment that he overcomes the speed of Aiolia's attack and dodges it, and then knocks him down with an attack that Aiolia could not dodge.

Landing a almost point blank ranged attacks, on a person who has near your combat speeds, and isn’t expecting this, does not constitute aiolia not scaling. All 7th sense users are comparable to one another anyway

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Anyway, it’s accepted that Golds in this series move and fight at Mftl+ speeds, so the point is moot. Regardless, This would mean that we have a character moving at his normal Mftl+ speeds, sensing an incoming attacks, so he used his full power, the 9th sense. Thematically, the next logical step from being so and so bajillion times light speed is being infinite anyway. Shura def would not need anything to achieve ftl. That’s how it’s treated on the wiki, you would need a crt for it. The only thing stopping you from considering this infinite speed is the fact that Shura is saying he’s moving some unspecified times faster than light right? Well according to the wiki, and other feats, Shura is always moving at these speeds anyway, so this statement is kinda irrelevant.

Because this is not important for the Wiki, because we can have a description of a character at the maximum of his abilities, so we can use a version of Seiya with Seventh Sense, when in the series he does not master this sense and usually does not start the fights at that level. In normal conditions a Gold Saint only starts with the speed of light, although they can exceed this speed when their cosmos is at its maximum, the same as Seiya in normal conditions in the series does not start the fights with the 7th Sense, but he can reach this level when his cosmos is at its maximum. The descriptions or the way we handle the character profiles in the Wiki, does not affect what is described in the story, because I assure you that the authors have not even read this Wiki.

 

[StekFence]

Because this is not important for the Wiki, because we can have a description of a character at the maximum of his abilities, so we can use a version of Seiya with Seventh Sense, when in the series he does not master this sense and usually does not start the fights at that level.

Shura is a gold saint, by default he’s experienced with the 7th sense and is never not gonna be using it in a fight. Why is this important again?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Shura is a gold saint, by default he’s experienced with the 7th sense and is never not gonna be using it in a fight. Why is this important again?

The 7th Sense is the speed of light, so it is said that Seiya reaches the speed of light when he awakens the 7th Sense, although he can exceed this speed on some occasions when he ignites his cosmos to an even higher level.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i'll look at this in detail once i have a moment

 

[StekFence]

Bumpo

 

[Lynieryz]

Agre fra.

 

[FanSyst]

6. In Episode G Assassin, Seiya is fighting someone who can Multiply a single Attack by infinity. This creates Infinite attacks.

It's Requiem not Assassin.

Following.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Argument 1
1. In episode G assasin, Seiya(who at this moment in time is weakened) is fighting against a Gladiator named Sigurd. Sigurd wields a special sword called Gram. Sigurd is a Demigod, who is described as having the power of a god. Sigurd is also overwhelming Libra Shiryu, with ease. This means that Sigurd is > 7th sense users in all stats.

2. Seiya is actually able to match Sigurds Danmaku, with his own. Sigurds Danmaku is described multiple times, as an Endless/Infinite rainDrops of projectiles. These attacks are described as “An attack of the Gods”

I found the raw for this scene and i can confirm. the raw says the attack releases infinite projectiles and Seiya is repelling them all. 無限

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The One thing here though is it that it is 8th sense seiya who repelled the infinite projectiles with a pregasus ryu sei ken; he matched infinite projectiles thus he traveled infinite distance. Even if it is something that is combat speed it would be infinite combat speed feat for a 8th sense seiya.

5. God Cloths are Unlocked when the user burns their Cosmos Infinitely High whilst having a gods blood on their armor. Cosmo increases will increase all stats. So an Infinite Cosmo boost = Infinite stat boost.

your missing the scans for this but i got you. These are just a couple of examples of Cosmo level = Increase in speed

Argument 3
6. In Episode G Assassin, Seiya is fighting someone who can Multiply a single Attack by infinity. This creates Infinite attacks.

7. Shura later appears, fighting the same guy, and notices “An Infinite amount of violent assaults coming from all directions.” He notes that light speed(which is the basic speed of a 7th sense user) can't dodge this, and so he uses the 9th Sense(which is the power of a god) to intercept. So the power of a god is needed to fight against infinite speed attacks.

8. Additionally, Shura has absorbed the power of All Gladiators from different dimensions, which includes Sigurd, who has the baseline infinite speed statements

So, these are my arguments for scaling anyone comparable to or above God Cloths to Attack/Reaction Infinite Speed. This would also scale to movement, as The speed of a Saints attack is not different from their movement speed. This is Because when a saint is stated to be able to move at Mach speeds, or light speed, they are also said to be able to Attack at those speeds. Therefore, Attacks/reactions is 1:1 to movement.

I went back and looked at the raw mentioned and i can confirm. Again the Kanji for Infinite is used


無限

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However; I will say there is far more infinite speed feats that happen as well not just these even the classic has a couple

Altogether i agree.