Saint Seiya Infinite Speed Upgrade

[StekFence]

Bump :despair:

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

do u have a problem with any of the other arguments?

What are the other arguments?.

The reason point 2 is important is because the way Seiya fights is by releasing 1 punch after another in quick Secession. In order to counter infinite projectiles, he needs to punch, an infinite amount of times. This would mean his Attack speed would have to be infinite, as he can draw his fist infinite times in a short timeframe.

for point 5, A feat would be Seiya countering an infinite amount of projectiles, as shown above.

Seiya doesn't need infinite fists, when the range of his attack can block that attack, so he only needs an attack with better range. For example the same Shura in the other example you post, stops the attack with a single move, which causes an explosion in the form of a column of light, and the second attack is blocked by a single slash of Shura that stops all the blows of his opponent.

Spoiler

First attack:

Second attack:

The moment Seiya counters that attack, they never describe it as infinite, they just describe it as many or numerous (数多) and that's it, and this confirms that the first description was just a hyperbole.

Spoiler

I think that’s just a point of how accurate the artist was. I think that the infinite attacks thing isnt hyperbole, and instsad fact, because it’s emphasized many times in this fight that the enemy is creating Infinite this, infinite that, and all his attacks are also named “Infinite so and so”. It seems pretty clear it was intended for the reader to accept that the amount of attacks is infinite, due to it being shoved in your face so many times. And on an artistic level, you def wouldn’t be able to enjoy the manga if the author just filled everything with projectiles. I believe he actually has done this for a panel in this very fight. Finally, it’s never said that the amount of attacks is likened to an infinite amount, everyone just flat out says the number is infinite.

No, when the author never draws an infinite amount of attacks at the same time and he never tries to represent it that way, because an attack with an infinite amount of blows should cover an infinite amount of space, something that never happens in that scene and the characters block those attacks with a single movement with a range of a few meters. Also, the description in that scene seems more for the fact that they are multiplying infinitely, so it is just a continuous movement with attacks that do not stop and not an infinite amount of hits at the same time, even Shura himself indicates that the amount of hits was multiplying and not that they were an infinite amount of attacks at the same time.

To be clear, Shura at this point has the abilities of Sigurd, and his sword.

finally, I apologize for how messy this crt was. Sorry.

Shura never uses that ability in his manga and we don't know what abilities the gladiators possess, since some of those abilities were not part of his sword and it was a power they acquired with their ability or the unique characteristics they possessed.

 

[Hasty12345]

No, when the author never draws an infinite amount of attacks at the same time and he never tries to represent it that way, because an attack with an infinite amount of blows should cover an infinite amount of space,

 

[StekFence]

The moment Seiya counters that attack, they never describe it as infinite, they just describe it as many or numerous (数多) and that's it, and this confirms that the first description was just a hyperbole.

wait wait. Your telling me. That a number being described as Numerous debunks it being called, Infinite in number. I will remind you that Infinite is kinda a lot. Just kinda tho.

 

[StekFence]

he never tries to represent it that way,

Perhaps the fact that he keeps using that word in reference to these attacks over and over and over again should have tipped you off.

 

[StekFence]

Shura never uses that ability in his manga and we don't know what abilities the gladiators possess, since some of those abilities were not part of his sword and it was a power they acquired with their ability or the unique characteristics they possessed

First of all, the statement for Sigurd sword is, for his sword. As Shura Controls Sigurd sword, he is capable of whatever Sigurd is, Here.

 

[StekFence]

Seiya doesn't need infinite fists, when the range of his attack can block that attack, so he only needs an attack with better range. For example the same Shura in the other example you post, stops the attack with a single move, which causes an explosion in the form of a column of light, and the second attack is blocked by a single slash of Shura that stops all the blows of his opponent.

The difference is Shura does not specialize in spamming as many attacks as possible. Seiya does. Logically, Seiyas attack that works by spamming projectiles, is going to counter another similar attack, by spamming projectiles. It’s not like shura, who just cleaves through shit because that’s how his attacks work.

 

[StekFence]

even Shura himself indicates that the amount of hits was multiplying and not that they were an infinite amount of attacks at the same time.

Sorry, I don’t recall this, do u have scans?

 

[StekFence]

because an attack with an infinite amount of blows should cover an infinite amount of space, something that never happens in that scene and the characters block those attacks with a single movement with a range of a few meters.

A fictional attack that is called Infinite in number multiple times, by different sources, now needs to fill the whole universe in energy to convince you it is indeed infinite as it’s said to be? That makes no sense. We have no reason to believe that Seiya,Shura, and the cyclops who named his attacks are lying. Your just assuming they are because a fantasy manga isn’t being realistic.

 

[Confluctor]

fictional attack that is called Infinite in number multiple times, by different sources, now needs to fill the whole universe in energy to convince you it is indeed infinite as it’s said to be

I will give my full response later today or so, but just wanted to say, yes.

If his attacks literally multiplied by infinity, then how come we can actually see the attack and there are tons of gaps in it? That's why I find it rather hyperbolic

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[Confluctor]

for point 5, A feat would be Seiya countering an infinite amount of projectiles, as shown above.

But my friend, aside from name, nothing else suggests those are infinite?

I mean if this is the only evidence for infinite speed overall, I am afraid I will have to disagree. Since this seems wayyy higher than their other feats. Way higher.

 

[StekFence]

nothing else suggests those are infinite?

It’s verbatim stated everytime they are used

 

[Jibz]

Following, will post my thoughts after i read this whole debacle. Leaning on disagree for infinite speed for now.

 

[StekFence]

It’s consistent with Gods having Infinite Cosmos, which is the source of their power, and also with Sigurd, who’s a demigod being able to fire off Infinite projectiles by breaking his sword. Seiya can fight Sigurd quite easily with his God power, and Shura(Who intercepts Attacks that are described as Infinite Projectiles by using the power of a god) and Shura has Sigurds powers.

 

[Jibz]

Actually nevermind! Discord is down atm so i can't see the scans.

 

[StekFence]

Actually nevermind! Discord is down atm so i can't see the scans.

Rip

 

[StekFence]

In addition, the Gods are contextually Way faster then Gold Saints, who throw 100 million blows a second, so infinite blows would actually fit the story well.

 

[Jibz]

Rip

i'll get back to this thread later. For now my thoughts are, the arguments against infinite speed are stupid (artistic liberty bruh), but the arguments for it sound even stupider. However, that's just context clues from the comment. I'll have to decide for myself once im able to see the scans.

 

[Jibz]

In addition, the Gods are contextually Way faster then Gold Saints, who throw 100 million blows a second, so infinite blows would actually fit the story well.

There is. And i mean for you to take this as literal as possible, a large ****** magnitude of difference between 100 million and infinite.

 

[StekFence]

Ye I’m aware, I’m just saying. We Have God level characters Countering what’s stated to be Infinite amounts of Projectiles by spamming Danmaku very fast for one scan, we Have God level characters being directly stated to have infinite amounts of the Speed increasing power source, and we have a god level character countering an infinite amount of projectiles For another scan.

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah, the difference is just wyayyy too huge to apply to the whole verse based on a feat like this which doesn't even seem like infinite. Yeah, sure, infinite is thrown around, but... Does it seem infinite? And also, infinite could mean a huge variety of stuff.

Also, please stop multiposting when possible

 

[StekFence]

Yeah, the difference is just wyayyy too huge to apply to the whole verse based on a feat like this which doesn't even seem like infinite. Yeah, sure, infinite is thrown around, but... Does it seem infinite? And also, infinite could mean a huge variety of stuff.

Also, please stop multiposting when possible

About the multi posting, sorry, and I do think it does seem infinite. Gods are stated to transcend humans, have encompassed the universe which I believe is Infinite in size, mastered the cosmo, which can create infinite power at its peak, are stated to have infinite amounts of this cosmo, which again, buffs ap and speed. There’s some other stuff I think, but I’m not 100% sure if it’s reliable yet

 

[Confluctor]

Gods are stated to transcend humans

Those are rather meaningless unfortunately

have encompassed the universe which I believe is Infinite in size

Each gods encompass an entire universe?

Also believe? Is the universe not infinite in the first place?

are stated to have infinite amounts of this cosmo, which again, buffs ap and speed

Logically, it's sound. But the feats just don't live up to that logic.

 

[StekFence]

Each gods encompass an entire universe?

Poseidon could do it when he woke up, still in human body, so yeah all of them are capable of it. Or at least scale to it

 

[Confluctor]

Okay if I am getting this right, these guys are bigger than a universe or can become bigger than the universe?

 

[StekFence]

Their cosmo can do it, which is their power. It usually manifests as an aura other users can sense

 

[Confluctor]

Not sure I am understanding this whole thing correctly, I should probably move SS up in my reading list.

 

[StekFence]

I think it’s easier to understand if you replace the word Cosmos with any UES. Poseidon got angry, powered up, and now his power is encompassing a universe.

 

[StekFence]

Also, a Goddess in ss was killed by flames that were directly powered by infinite amounts of malicious feelings, which means infinite power is needed to contend with a god. So The statement of infinite Cosmos does have further backing.

 

[Confluctor]

i mean infinite power is different than infinite speed. you can be 2-a and still be Superhuman speed.

 

[StekFence]

Yeah, but when you are stated to have a Infinite amount of a power source that would give Both infinite power and Speed, And are shown to have Infinite Power, and Statements/Feats that would suggest Infinite speed, it’s a pretty good conclusion that a God would have Infinite Speed

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i mean infinite power is different than infinite speed. you can be 2-a and still be Superhuman speed.

I think what's he's* trying to say is that... Cosmos is the source of their powers. It even gives them superhuman speeds not just power. Increasing ones cosmo also increase how fast that can move. So an infinite boost in cosmo increases both AP and speed.

 

[StekFence]

Well yeah that, I’m just really bad at explaining it seems

 

[Confluctor]

Both infinite power and Speed

not without feats

and Statements/Feats that would suggest Infinite speed, it’s a pretty good conclusion that a God would have Infinite Speed

i am sorry, but that's just guess work.

I think what's he's* trying to say is that... Cosmos is the source of their powers. It even gives them superhuman speeds not just power. Increasing ones cosmo also increase how fast that can move. So an infinite boost in cosmo increases both AP and speed.

I get that, but that logic doesn't hold up without feats


Anyway, is there a staff or someone who is knowledgeable on the verse so I can tag them?

 

[StekFence]

not without feats

We Have A statement that would give Infinite Speed and Ap. We know for certain that the Ap part is true. Therefore, the Speed part must also be true. You can’t even say the statement was unreliable, given it’s said by a Goddess. Either the whole statement is correct, or it’s just flat out wrong. The Ap and Speed are connected. Rises in one stat gives a rise in others. That’s how saint seiya works.
The Gods canonically have Infinite attack potency, they canonically have Infinite Cosmo, which is the source of the Infinite AP. Therefore, they must also have the other effects infinite cosmo would give, such as Infinite Durability, which they do have on our profiles for them, and must also have Infinite speed. You physically cannot have an increase in attack power without an equal increase in speed in saint seiya, if the Ap increase is via Cosmo.
Again, We also Have God Cloth seiya(who has infinite cosmo) Matching a stated Infinite Danmaku by spamming his own. We have 9th sense Shura(Also Infinite Cosmos) intercepting Infinite attacks as well.

 

[StekFence]

Anyway, is there a staff or someone who is knowledgeable on the verse so I can tag them?

Afaik, basically everyone who frequents ss threads alr commented.

 

[Confluctor]

Hmm