Saint Seiya Infinite Speed Upgrade

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

They were already in it. That’s why they used AE. To bust out

They were headed for that place, because they had not yet reached the bank of the Acheron River, even Aiolos' goal was for them to enter the Underworld so that they would be trapped in that place.

 

[StekFence]

Forgive my poor memory then. So where were they?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Forgive my poor memory then. So where were they?

That place was named as the Shadow of the Underworld, and it seems an intermediate place between the Yomotsu Hirakasa and the Underworld.

 

[StekFence]

Reading chap 63 again, I’m not sure it’s not the Uw, after all, Saga says they are at its Entrance, and shura says, “The underworld is Ablaze”

 

[StekFence]

The river Acheron is far from their position, but it’s not the beginNing of the place

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

The river Acheron is far from their position, but it’s not the beginNing of the place

The bank of the Acheron River is the beginning of the Underworld, it is even described in the map of the Underworld, where the souls that could never make a decision in their life remain in that place and also this is the door to the Underworld.

This has no importance, because they are not in another universe, they are only in a part before reaching the beginning of the Underworld, something that in this franchise is just another dimension or a spiritual world where souls meet after death. This only indicates a dimensional power and has nothing to do with speed.

 

[StekFence]

Seiya and shun fell into the underworld, but they weren’t quite at Acheron

 

[StekFence]

Also, the ae is said to have punched through the UW

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Seiya and shun fell into the underworld, but they weren’t quite at Acheron

Seiya and Shun were on the bank of the Acheron at the time.

 

[StekFence]

Also, aiolos said they were trapped by the underworld.

 

[StekFence]

Seiya and Shun were on the bank of the Acheron at the time.

Hm I see. But the golds themselves say they are held in the underworld.

 

[StekFence]

Saga also says shura had a clash in the world of the dead after

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Also, the ae is said to have punched through the UW

The part before reaching the beginning of the Underworld known as the Shadow of the Underworld, if they reached the bank of the Acheron they could not return. It is only a place between the beginning of the Underworld and after crossing the Yomotsu Hirakasa. The map of the Underworld indicates that the beginning of the Underworld is on the bank of the Acheron River, where the souls wait for the ferryman to cross the river and also in this place is the gate of the Underworld/Hell, this is the place where the punishment for the souls begins and where the power of Hades begins.

 

[StekFence]

Yeah, but there’s also like, 6 statements they are in the UW

 

[StekFence]

*5

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Yeah, but there’s also like, 6 statements they are in the UW

They were in their shadow, they had not yet reached the beginning of the Underworld, which is the bank of the Acheron River.

 

[StekFence]

There are 5 statements they are in the UW/World of the Dead

 

[StekFence]

Even If their actual location is inconsistent to previous geographical lore, the intent is still that they are in the UW

 

[StekFence]

You’re repeating yourself. If you feel your argument hasn’t been debunked, than you don’t need to repeat the same thing for 50 posts a thread.

Have I potentially changed your mind on this crt from Neutral to agree?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Even If their actual location is inconsistent to previous geographical lore, the intent is still that they are in the UW

The lore of the franchise is quite specific and the beginning of the Underworld is indicated to be the banks of the Acheron River, even the part of darkness where Suikyo was wandering before reaching the Underworld is not named as the Underworld in Next Dimension.

 

[StekFence]

Yeah, it’s a geographical inconsistency. But the manga says 5 times they are in the UW. So despite how dumb it is geographically speaking, they are.

 

[StekFence]

more votes when? :sob

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Yeah, it’s a geographical inconsistency. But the manga says 5 times they are in the UW. So despite how dumb it is geographically speaking, they are.

Yes, but that location is given a new name which is the Shadow of the Underworld, a place that is still far from the banks of the Acheron River, which is officially the beginning of the Underworld in the main manga of the franchise.

 

[StekFence]

The location must be in the underworld, because Characters in the shadow are said to be in the underworld.

 

[StekFence]

if your arguing an Infinite level raise in Cosmo would also increase speed then the speedy scaling chain would be gargantuan .

this is just a general scaling chain not a specific one

Mariners < 7th Sense bronze bois < Gold Saints < 8th sense users < God Cloths < Sigurd < Golden God Cloth Seiya < 9th Sense Users < Gods

obviously if we did the proper scaling chain for every individual the scaling chain would be immense.


gold saints are already have 100x more cosmo than mariners sooo...

It would also have a small affect on the ap chain, as Seiyas comet fist is based off his speed

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

The location must be in the underworld, because Characters in the shadow are said to be in the underworld.

It is a shadow and we don't know where that part is, because it is not named in the official map of the franchise created by Kurumada, so it is a new location, which is described as not yet being on the bank of the Acheron River which is the beginning of this place in the main manga of the franchise. Although this has nothing to do with the purpose of the topic, because this only indicates that he is not attacking from another universe and is only attacking from another dimension or a different plane (depending on how you consider the world of the dead), this only indicates that his attack has some dimensional property.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'm back. Just marking my presence because the thread stopped notifying for some reason. (I believe I didn't unfollow).

I will read both arguments shortly and give my input on them from a neutral standpoint.

 

[StekFence]

Boomp

 

[StekFence]

aight.

It is a shadow and we don't know where that part is, because it is not named in the official map of the franchise created by Kurumada, so it is a new location, which is described as not yet being on the bank of the Acheron River which is the beginning of this place in the main manga of the franchise. Although this has nothing to do with the purpose of the topic, because this only indicates that he is not attacking from another universe and is only attacking from another dimension or a different plane (depending on how you consider the world of the dead), this only indicates that his attack has some dimensional property.

do u have a problem with any of the other arguments?

 

[StekFence]

Bumpp

 

[StekFence]

Boomp

 

[StekFence]

Boomp

 

[StekFence]

Boom

 

[StekFence]

Boomp

 

[Confluctor]

Argument 1
1. In episode G assasin, Seiya(who at this moment in time is weakened) is fighting against a Gladiator named Sigurd. Sigurd wields a special sword called Gram. Sigurd is a Demigod, who is described as having the power of a god. Sigurd is also overwhelming Libra Shiryu, with ease. This means that Sigurd is > 7th sense users in all stats.

To those of who don't know anything about the verse... What does it mean? Is it something important?

2. Seiya is actually able to match Sigurds Danmaku, with his own. Sigurds Danmaku is described , as Infinite projectiles. These attacks are described as “An attack of the Gods”

Can you elaborate more on the relevance of these scans please?

3.Sigurd was holding Back, and once he stopped, his stats did indeed rise. Despite using all his power, he still needed a Cheap Shot to land a hit, meaning Seiya at this point still scales higher.

.... And why would that grant infinite speed for Seiya?

4. Seiya is rejuvenated by Shiryu and Athena, Causing him to not Be dead from heart damage, and also awaken his god Cloth. This is a stat jump that Shocked Sigurd entirely from its speed and power. The only reason why Sigurd doesn’t get defeated by this, is because Seiyas Stats rapidly start to plummet.

So, it's a multiplier. But I don't see how any of this is infinite speed. Unless the Sigurd guy has infinite speed already, none of these mean anything. Sorry.

Argument 2:
5. God Cloths are Unlocked when the user burns their Cosmos Infinitely High whilst having a gods blood on their armor. Cosmo increases will increase all stats. So an Infinite Cosmo boost = Infinite stat boost.

Sound logic, but feats?

Argument 3
6. In Episode G Requiem, Seiya is fighting someone who can Multiply a single Attack by infinity. This creates Infinite attacks.
7. Shura later appears, fighting the same guy, and notices “An Infinite amount of violent assaults coming from all directions.” He notes that light speed(which is the basic speed of a 7th sense user) can't dodge this, and so he uses the 9th Sense(which is the power of a god) to intercept. So the power of a god is needed to fight against infinite speed attacks.

I do see the word infinite, but the first scan don't hint at that. I mean if it was truly infinite energy attacks, there won't be a gap between it now, would it?

Also does anyone know what the original Japanese ver says? Just for extra confirmation.

8. Additionally, Shura has absorbed the power of All Gladiators from different dimensions, which includes Sigurd, who has the baseline infinite speed statements

Can we see the said statement?

So, these are my arguments for scaling anyone comparable to or above God Cloths to Attack/Reaction Infinite Speed. This would also scale to movement, as The speed of a Saints attack is not different from their movement speed. This is Because when a saint is stated to be able to move at Mach speeds, or light speed, they are also said to be able to Attack at those speeds. Therefore, Attacks/reactions is 1:1 to movement.

I can't say whether I agree or disagree right now - although leaning towards HARD disagree - but can you provide some more context and maybe some more scans or something. Because by itself, they don't mean much. Although the rising infinity multiplier thing could be used as supporting evidence. Logic is sound, but needs some accompanying feats.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Disagree here too. None of the evidence is convicing enough. Burning Cosmo increases stats, so logically burning it infinitely would grant infinite speed, I just think none of the scans are conclusive enough

 

[StekFence]

Tfw when I stop receiving notices on my own thread

 

[StekFence]

To those of who don't know anything about the verse... What does it mean? Is it something important?

Can you elaborate more on the relevance of these scans please?

.... And why would that grant infinite speed for Seiya?

So, it's a multiplier. But I don't see how any of this is infinite speed. Unless the Sigurd guy has infinite speed already, none of these mean anything. Sorry.


Sound logic, but feats?


I do see the word infinite, but the first scan don't hint at that. I mean if it was truly infinite energy attacks, there won't be a gap between it now, would it?

Also does anyone know what the original Japanese ver says? Just for extra confirmation.

Can we see the said statement?


I can't say whether I agree or disagree right now - although leaning towards HARD disagree - but can you provide some more context and maybe some more scans or something. Because by itself, they don't mean much. Although the rising infinity multiplier thing could be used as supporting evidence. Logic is sound, but needs some accompanying feats.

K so I’ll try to to reply to this line by line.

Ok so points 1,3, and 4 of mine isn’t very important, it’s just to confirm that the characters I’m talking about are indeed scalable to Gods in this verse. It was also to establish a scaling chain that I omitted.

The reason point 2 is important is because the way Seiya fights is by releasing 1 punch after another in quick Secession. In order to counter infinite projectiles, he needs to punch, an infinite amount of times. This would mean his Attack speed would have to be infinite, as he can draw his fist infinite times in a short timeframe.

for point 5, A feat would be Seiya countering an infinite amount of projectiles, as shown above.

point 6, I think that’s just a point of how accurate the artist was. I think that the infinite attacks thing isnt hyperbole, and instsad fact, because it’s emphasized many times in this fight that the enemy is creating Infinite this, infinite that, and all his attacks are also named “Infinite so and so”. It seems pretty clear it was intended for the reader to accept that the amount of attacks is infinite, due to it being shoved in your face so many times. And on an artistic level, you def wouldn’t be able to enjoy the manga if the author just filled everything with projectiles. I believe he actually has done this for a panel in this very fight. Finally, it’s never said that the amount of attacks is likened to an infinite amount, everyone just flat out says the number is infinite.

for point 8, the statement is this

Sigurds Danmaku is described , as Infinite projectiles.

To be clear, Shura at this point has the abilities of Sigurd, and his sword.

finally, I apologize for how messy this crt was. Sorry.

 

[StekFence]

I just think none of the scans are conclusive enough

Assuming nobody in the scans were lying, which there is no reason to believe, nor history of, we would have seiya countering an Infinite amount of projectiles, by punching it infinitely. We would also have Shura intercepting infinite attacks. This is 2 feats of God Tier characters keeping up with inf attack speed.

This is combined with a statement by a Goddess that in order for seiya to reach the state in which he would be God Tier, he needs to Power Up Infinitely higher then he ever did before, Which logically infinitely increases his stats.

 

[Confluctor]

I will get back to this later