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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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In fact, they use, it's a lot of mixing us profiles, where that character doesn't have a certain ability and uses another ability from a spin-off that's a different timeline. As is the case with Hades, where he does not have type 8 immortality in the canon line, but is placed having it only because of the G which is another Hades from a totally different timeline. Basically the profiles are all disorganized lol
Hasty12345
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Type 8 immortality comes from
Sho
Sho
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He's using EP G too and scan in spanish which isn't even allowed on vsbttles, the profile is a total mess
I don't know why you use timelines that don't even have links or mention within the canon line to establish an ability.
Hasty12345
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2 different things are being proved with a that imgur link, the G stuff establishes regen and Sho establishes type 8 and AE type 2.
and bro I agree, don’t even get me started on current DB canon, it’s worse than saint seiya at the moment.
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I strongly disagree with using derivatives to grant such an ability, as it didn't demonstrate in the mainline.
Bro, we're in Saint Seiya :3
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About this chapter, it was understood that there are different Gods /Goddesses, Athena was about to be reborn in the body of this girl. Kind of obvious isn't it?
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Atm, G is considered part of the classic saint seiya, so it’s the same profile
Hasty12345
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Yeah cross scaling between derivatives shouldn’t happen, no idea why DBS is now 2-C because of GT and a bunch of outdated retconned guides from 30 years ago
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It's used guides from 2015 and interviews with Akira, regarding the structure it's right, I don't know why every time when we're talking about Saint Seiya mistakes you put this lol
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Sho is part of the mainline and Kurumada's own work indicates that you need a sacred treasure (a divine weapon) to kill a god (it is even mentioned in Episode Zero, where Shura mentions that Athena can resurrect after killing her and in ND it is mentioned that you need a divine weapon like the poison of Samael, a poison that can kill gods, or the Sword of Chrysus, a weapon with the power to kill a god). Although regeneration to the level explained on the page does not exist in this franchise, because they never completely regenerated a soul and it was only damaged, even human souls do not disappear after being destroyed in multiple ways in the eternal punishment in the Underworld, basically the same series indicates that souls are ridiculously difficult to destroy in this series, this indicates a higher resistance to the destruction of a soul for the characters in this franchise, but not a regeneration of that level. Also, regeneration has to be degraded, as we never see them regenerate a body completely after being destroyed, and the most they regenerate is after great damage, and this can take them hundreds or thousands of years as indicated in the last chapter of Requiem, therefore their regeneration is only High and takes a long time to recover.
Basically the immortality of the gods, is a High regeneration in Assassin and Requiem, they can regenerate a body after it was destroyed by half, although this can take hundreds or thousands without the help of another god, so it is basically useless for these versus, although it is worth to be mentioned.
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But wouldn't that be type 4 immortality and god level regeneration? As opposed to being type 8? Since type 8 is not worked in the canonical line and not worked on concepts in the main series.
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In no series in the franchise does it work, and the only goddess who has that level of immortality is Eris, a goddess that even Athena herself, using weapons designed to defeat evil beings like her cannot destroy, and perhaps Saturn, since he is connected to time. Basically only Eris is connected to the concept she represents in that form, that's why she literally gets stronger with conflicts and needs this to exist, which is why Kyoko (Eris) explains to Shoko that she cannot exist in a world without conflict. The problem is generalizing the exclusive abilities of some characters.
The immortality of the gods in the franchise in general is limited to only being type 1, 3 and 4 (probably also 5), with a High regeneration (although this one takes a long time, according to Episode.G, although in Kurumada's work it seems to be faster, but it was never seen how Athena was to be resurrected after Shura killed her), because they have never been seen to regenerate a body completely destroyed or reduced to dust (the only characters that have regeneration at this level are 8th Sense users such as Shaka and Ikki), and a higher resistance to soul destruction, since as it has been explained the souls in this franchise are ridiculously difficult to make them disappear, because no matter the damage they receive they do not disappear, it even seems that you need something special to completely destroy a soul and make it disappear, something like Pharaoh's technique or the power of a god.
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IIRC, it was lost in Viz's mediocre translations, but the raw and anime subtitles of the same scene (which are consistently way closer to the original than Viz) has Dohko tell the Bronze Saints to outright destroy Hades' real body, not just deal it a wound. Don't think the former would be possible if the gods had the invincible immortality they're argued to have.
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Oh bro, so that should be changed! It doesn't seem normal at all to try to update all the Gods based on nothing, I can't wait for a team member to arrive and help fix Saint Seiya's profiles even more, there are things in the profiles that are not in the work and sometimes there are even wrong scans , not even talking about it is, Saint Seiya needs a heavy moderation about.
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Amazing how there is such dishonesty in this
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I wouldn't call it dishonest on anyone's end at all the hell.. Viz aren't powerscalers, they do what they do which is localize a manga to their region, and the consumers aren't to blame if they happen to change something from the original to create a more digestible dialogue that inadvertently can give a different interpretation.
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Seiya every time he was on the verge of death Athena just said an "a" to Seiya and he was cured of everything
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I understand
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Not that one, I think that’s just supernatural willpower, I mean that in Hero of Heroes, seiya gets his place in history/plot erased. He does die to it, but somehow winds up in yomotsu and somebody teleports him out. There’s literally no given reason why he can do this, it just happens.
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Plot working directly for Seiya, I really like Seiya as a protagonist, but there are times when the script saves Seiya a thousand times from dying.
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The most impressive feat is the Gold Saints destroying themselves body and soul in the Wailing Wall scene and coming back in ND more trollish than ever, as they are now souls that can even move through space and time. Though I'm still in doubt, if this qualifies as regeneration, since technically they didn't regenerate anything.
And then there is, Aiolos in Dark Wing, being such a troll that he even came back somehow after his body and soul were completely erased from the world, and not only that, his existence was also erased, as no one remembers him in the world, basically the Hakai falls short in comparison to this erasure of existence, but we saw how his spirit or some fragment of him comes back, and even seems to have overwritten his own existence so that Sojiro remembers him.
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That wouldn’t be soul regen?
Hasty12345
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The 8th sense has no regen, only gods in G have regen of any kind.
8th sense only grants existing as a soul at best, but even that’s arguable as we have seen non-confirmed 8th sense users do that throughout the franchise, Aiolos being the most notable.
8th sense only grants existing as a soul at best, but even that’s arguable as we have seen non-confirmed 8th sense users do that throughout the franchise, Aiolos being the most notable.
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Well, it could qualify as that.
After all, the power of the 8th Sense overcomes death, even Athena survived a god-killing weapon like the Sword of Chrysus in canon because of it.
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It is because Sasha is the reincarnation of Athena of the 18th century, while Saori is the reincarnation of Athena of the 20th century, but due to Saori's time travel to the past, Sasha could not awaken as Athena. Some characters, such as the Pope, Suikyo and Odysseus, believed that the Athena of their time had not been born because the Athena of the future had interfered, so they thought of killing the Athena of the future to allow the Athena of their time to appear, although it is confirmed that this was not the case and that the Athena of their time was indeed born (though she did not arrive at the Sanctuary as usual due to Saori's interference). However, as Odysseus explains to Tenma, Sasha probably did not awaken as Athena due to the interference of the Athena of the future, which is confirmed in this last chapter where Asclepius mentions that Sasha could wake up as Athena if Saori is killed.
This concept of Athena's awakening was already mentioned in the previous season of Next Dimension, but it is still interesting to see how Kurumada introduced this concept in his manga, since it is a concept that first appeared in Saintia Sho. This manga is the first to mention that the reincarnation of Athena has to awaken as a goddess, which basically means that the reincarnation acquires the memories and all the powers and abilities of Athena, although the reincarnation has divine cosmos from birth, the memories and her abilities appear later (this is first named as the awakening of Athena or the awakening of the goddess in Saintia Sho). Although this concept is introduced later in other works, for example in Dark Wing, where Cattleya awakens as Athena during the events of the ship, although in that story her awakening is said to be very minor.
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Considering the time it takes for a god to regenerate as told in Episode GR I don't think it disproves much. Forcing a god to undergo a several millenia long regeneration sounds very much like a victory.
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I also wanted to know what it is
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I think he is talking about the Wailing Wall
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The Wailing Wall?
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Any tier wailing wall? He was talking about 3-A something lol
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Waiting for him to explain it to us, we are trying to imagine what it is lol
Linkbtw93
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No I was talking about the World of the living, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Oh. Yeah it is. It's considered a Low 2-C structure currently.
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- Thread starter
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Wailing wall scene was very much a plot induced stupidity moment imo and also imo I feel like that entire scene with ghe good Saints at the wailing wall should be considered and outlier on top of plot induced stupidity
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Spoiler for chapter 104.
Part 104: To the Shaba (Current World)
Giulietta tries to kill Sasha, but her hand stops just a few millimeters away.
Tenma challenges Giulietta, but it is completely useless, then he receives Giulietta's technique, "Fairy Thronging", and falls towards the Underworld/Yomotsu.
Odysseus, who immediately sensed the situation, awakens Deathtoll in Cancer.
Deathtoll, who noticed someone who was not dead falling to the Underworld/Yomotsu, headed there catches Tenma who was falling.
When Deathtoll hits Tenma, who is depressed because he cannot be Giulietta's rival, and tells him not to waste Suikyo's last will.
Deathtoll sends Tenma flying to Earth with the Shabadaba.
Deathtoll attacks all of Giulietta's Fairies that were surrounding him and goes back to sleep once again.
It looks like we are going to see how Papillon's technique works in this chapter, let's remember that in the original manga we never saw how this technique worked completely, since Mu dodged it with his teleportation. Well Kurumada is still in his role to explain techniques and abilities that were not fully explained, such as the Tembu Horin, there are still people who believe that this serves to remove senses.
Part 104: To the Shaba (Current World)
Giulietta tries to kill Sasha, but her hand stops just a few millimeters away.
Tenma challenges Giulietta, but it is completely useless, then he receives Giulietta's technique, "Fairy Thronging", and falls towards the Underworld/Yomotsu.
Odysseus, who immediately sensed the situation, awakens Deathtoll in Cancer.
Deathtoll, who noticed someone who was not dead falling to the Underworld/Yomotsu, headed there catches Tenma who was falling.
When Deathtoll hits Tenma, who is depressed because he cannot be Giulietta's rival, and tells him not to waste Suikyo's last will.
Deathtoll sends Tenma flying to Earth with the Shabadaba.
Deathtoll attacks all of Giulietta's Fairies that were surrounding him and goes back to sleep once again.
It looks like we are going to see how Papillon's technique works in this chapter, let's remember that in the original manga we never saw how this technique worked completely, since Mu dodged it with his teleportation. Well Kurumada is still in his role to explain techniques and abilities that were not fully explained, such as the Tembu Horin, there are still people who believe that this serves to remove senses.
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