Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Zeus doesn’t have a soul, Aiolos destroyed it in LW.

No, it only damages his soul, the type of destruction described in that scene is to tear it apart, but it does not destroy it completely (or eliminate it completely).

Aiolia returned due to a temporary anomaly.

 

[Hasty12345]

No, it only damages his soul, the type of destruction described in that scene is to tear it apart, but it does not destroy it completely (or eliminate it completely).

No, that’s not at all the correct interpretation.

 

[StekFence]

Chapter 79

Ok so I read a later chapter, and it wasn’t his souls arm shura chopped. Because aiolias willpoer and cosmo was resisting the control, zeus body overflowed into “an ethereal form“. That’s what shura chopped

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

No, that’s not at all the correct interpretation.

That's what is said in the manga.

 

[StekFence]

No, it only damages his soul, the type of destruction described in that scene is to tear it apart, but it does not destroy it completely (or eliminate it completely).

Aiolia returned due to a temporary anomaly.

I just looked at the scan on a site, and it says “I destroyed his flesh and soul!”

 

[Hasty12345]

That's what is said in the manga.

The implication is clearly that the body and soul were destroyed at the same time. We do not see pieces of his body anywhere, so we know “tore to pieces” contextually means destroyed.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I just looked at the scan on a site, and it says “I destroyed his flesh and soul!”

The type of destruction that the author describes in that scene is to tear an object into pieces, not to make it disappear completely, this is written differently in Japanese.

 

[Hasty12345]

The type of destruction that the author describes in that scene is to tear an object into pieces, not to make it disappear completely, this is written differently in Japanese.

And context tells us what happened and how to interpret the phrase.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

The implication is clearly that the body and soul were destroyed at the same time. We do not see pieces of his body anywhere, so we know “tore to pieces” contextually means destroyed.

Yes, damage his body and soul at the same time, but this does not mean that it made him disappear completely. This is the difference with the writing and the words that the author uses in the manga scene.

 

[StekFence]

Well, zeus took aiolias body after the arrow, so it def did something to him

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Well, zeus took aiolias body after the arrow, so it def did something to him

Yes, he damaged his body, that's why he changed his host. Like when the Gold Saints destroyed Andreas' body, but Loki survives because he switched to a new body at the right time.

 

[Hasty12345]

Well, zeus took aiolias body after the arrow, so it def did something to him

We know his body was completely destroyed. Otherwise there would be no need to take Aiolia’s body. Furthermore, we know that whatever happened to his body also happens to his soul. Since his body was no where to be seen, we can conclude that it was destroyed completely, so his soul should have also been destroyed in the same manner.

 

[Hasty12345]

Yes, he damaged his body, that's why he changed his host. Like when the Golden Saints destroyed Andreas' body, but Loki survives because he switched to a new body at the right time.

For someone who’s vehemently against cross scaling, you seem to rely on it A LOT for all your arguments.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

For someone who’s vehemently against cross scaling, you seem to rely on it A LOT for all your arguments.

This is just one example.

 

[Hasty12345]

This is just one example.

An example by your own standards shouldn’t be applied.

You’re consistently contradicting your own standards ALL THE TIME.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

We know his body was completely destroyed. Otherwise there would be no need to take Aiolia’s body. Furthermore, we know that whatever happened to his body also happens to his soul. Since his body was no where to be seen, we can conclude that it was destroyed completely, so his soul should have also been destroyed in the same manner.

The gods in this franchise do not have such impressive regeneration, even damaging his body with some really serious injury was enough to force him to change hosts, although Aiolos describes in that scene that he was torn apart, so the body Zeus was using at the time took a lot of damage.

 

[StekFence]

Idk how I feel about zeus soul getting destroyed, if that’s the case, then how was aiolia possesed

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

An example by your own standards shouldn’t be applied.

You’re consistently contradicting your own standards ALL THE TIME.

It's a quick example and it works for what we are describing at the moment.

 

[Hasty12345]

The gods in this franchise do not have such impressive regeneration, even damaging his body with some really serious injury was enough to force him to change hosts, although Aiolos describes in that scene that he was torn apart, so the body Zeus was using at the time took a lot of damage.

“ gods in this franchise”

but you’re against cross scaling? So what’s it matter if gods anywhere else can’t do it huh? Sounds like you need to cross scale to arrive at this conclusion.

 

[Hasty12345]

Idk how I feel about zeus soul getting destroyed, if that’s the case, then how was aiolia possesed

How’d a soul that’s been torn to pieces and killed take over Aiolia?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

“ gods in this franchise”

but you’re against cross scaling? So what’s it matter if gods anywhere else can’t do it huh? Sounds like you need to cross scale to arrive at this conclusion.

I am using the general description of the gods and what was shown in Episode.G where the gods do not have a great regeneration, even their avatar has never fully regenerated and Athena herself died decapitated by a sword.

How’d a soul that’s been torn to pieces and killed take over Aiolia?

Souls are not easy to destroy, this is not something new, even a part of a soul can take possession of an avatar.

Aiolos never says that Zeus' soul would disappear, he only says that the god would return to sleep in that scene.

 

[StekFence]

How’d a soul that’s been torn to pieces and killed take over Aiolia?

Well yes.

 

[Hasty12345]

I am using the general description of the gods and what was shown in Episode.G where the gods do not have a great regeneration, even their avatar has never fully regenerated and Athena herself died decapitated by a sword.

Ahh so you’re decontextualising everything again.

 

[StekFence]

I am using the general description of the gods and what was shown in Episode.G where the gods do not have a great regeneration, even their avatar has never fully regenerated and Athena herself died decapitated by a sword.

Souls are not easy to destroy, this is not something new, even a part of a soul can take possession of an avatar.

It’s likely a sacred relic sword or somethin. Also, Athena let herself get killed

 

[Hasty12345]

Well yes.

The scene makes 0 sense under the interpretation Gods don’t have a fundamental being below their soul.

even in Classic Hades soul was destroyed, but we see his shadow form again in GA, as it’s intended to be more fundamental than the soul.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

It’s likely a sacred relic sword or somethin. Also, Athena let herself get killed

It is only a sword and nothing special is ever described about this weapon. The only weapon in the Sanctuary that can kill gods is the sword of Chrysus.

 

[Hasty12345]

It’s likely a sacred relic sword or somethin. Also, Athena let herself get killed

Athena is a human who reincarnates.
This is what happens when you take stuff out of context, you end up with stupid interpretations like “gods die from their head being chopped off”

 

[StekFence]

The scene makes 0 sense under the interpretation Gods don’t have a fundamental being below their soul.

even in Classic Hades soul was destroyed, but we see his shadow form again in GA, as it’s intended to be more fundamental than the soul.

Def does seem like a ga thing

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

The scene makes 0 sense under the interpretation Gods don’t have a fundamental being below their soul.

even in Classic Hades soul was destroyed, but we see his shadow form again in GA, as it’s intended to be more fundamental than the soul.

In Assassin it is never said that Hades' soul was destroyed and Hades himself cannot rebuild his body after it was destroyed.

The souls of the gods are difficult to destroy, but this does not mean that they can regenerate their bodies.

 

[StekFence]

In Assassin it is never said that Hades' soul was destroyed and Hades himself cannot rebuild his body after it was destroyed.

In the classic tho, his soul is destroyed, which should still hold in Ga

 

[StekFence]

Under the current vsbw interpretations of ss gods and their diving weapons, it would make sense for gods to have something deeper than a soul, though I don’t think it’s explicitly stated

 

[Hasty12345]

In Assassin it is never said that Hades' soul was destroyed and Hades himself cannot rebuild his body after it was destroyed.

Again, GA is written as a sequel to Classic, separating them will get you no where.

we understand through Zeus that Hades’ soul was destroyed.

 

[Hasty12345]

Under the current vsbw interpretations of ss gods and their diving weapons, it would make sense for gods to have something deeper than a soul, though I don’t think it’s explicitly stated

Doesn’t have to be, it’s literally shown.

but GR does refer to the shadow forms as “divine spirits”

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Again, GA is written as a sequel to Classic, separating them will get you no where.

we understand through Zeus that Hades’ soul was destroyed.

As a sequel that has several changes with the original manga, even Kanon is also alive and Radamanthys is alive, even though all the rosary beads changed color in the original manga.

The Underworld still exists in Assassin, even though it disappeared completely in the original manga with the death of Hades.

 

[StekFence]

Kanon is also alive

Possibly a result of the summoning spell I think

 

[Hasty12345]

As a sequel that has several changes with the original manga, even Kanon is also alive and Radamanthys is alive, even though all the rosary beads changed color in the original manga.

The Underworld still exists in Assassin, even though it disappeared completely in the original manga with the death of Hades.

none of those "differences" arise to the level of contradiction when you actually understand the events that take place.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

In the classic tho, his soul is destroyed, which should still hold in Ga

A different universe, even in the story this is indicated, and it is a story with some changes.

In the original manga the Underworld disappeared with the death of Hades, but in Assassin it did not disappear, this is because Athena does not destroy her soul in this universe and only destroys her body.

 

[StekFence]

Radamanthys is alive, ev

I actually think that’s LW rhad. Hear me out. The Saints in the Lw had a ceasefire with the underworld. And rhad does mention a ceasefire. Plus, the history of the Lw is very diff from normal

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Possibly a result of the summoning spell I think

Kanon did not disappear like the others who were summoned and it is because he is part of that world.

 

[Hasty12345]

A different universe, even in the story this is indicated, and it is a story with some changes.

In the original manga the Underworld disappeared with the death of Hades, but in Assassin it did not disappear, this is because Athena does not destroy her soul in this universe and only destroys her body.

The UW was only ever shown to be crumbling, we never see it disappear.