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Ruler (Fate/Apocrypha) Revision

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Migue79

Migue79

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Hi! Uh... Been awhile since I made a CRT in VSBW. But this time I bring you all my first CRT for a series I've been getting into recently (Fate series, yay) and it's for the character in question. There's funny stuff in Jeanne's profile, as well as missing information that seems key. So let's get this CRT started.

Corrections
So... Let's start off the corrections to some of the things I noticed in her profile...
  • I noticed that the durability of her standard, Luminosité Eternelle, is only Large Island level with the justification being her blocking an attack that is currently rated at Small Country level (that being Spartacus' Suicide Attack which also has a Small Country level calc here). She blocked the attack just fine as far as I know, so the feat's legit. Just the rating isn't matching up. And... it is said in Sieg's page that Fafnir overpowered Luminosité Eternelle & Lord Chaldeas, even though that's not true: the 2 NPs blocked the attack from Fafnir albeit with high difficulty. Otherwise Ritsuka and the other Servants would've gotten cooked by the breath of fire. And remember she was very weakened when this happened.
  • I noticed also that it is noted in her profile that Jeanne is a skilled swordswoman. However, this is not true (unfortunately): Archer of Shinjuku states that she was an amateur with the sword. In fact, that is the exact reason as to why she never drew the Sword of St. Catherine in life. She's still skilled with her standard, though. Just not with the sword. So her Expert Swordswoman ability should just be changed to Weapon Mastery (Skilled with her standard). Or... Whatever. Just that that ability and a part of her intelligence rating should be changed accordingly, and maybe add it to her weaknesses that she's not that good with the sword.
Additions
Now let's move onto some new additions that I feel should be added to her profile:
  • New Abilities:
    • Air Manipulation/Vibration Manipulation: via this and this.
    • Limited Information Analysis via True Name Discernment: It allows her to discern a Servant's true name and entire status information will be automatically revealed. So this should be straightforward enough. Obviously, this only works on Servants during Holy Grail Wars, hence why it should be listed as Limited.
    • Existence Erasure: It is explicitly stated that all existence is annihilated by La Pucelle. So this should be a straightforward ability to add.
  • New Weaknesses: Only 2 (maybe 3) weaknesses will be added to her profile and that's it. The following are:
    • Stubborn and needlessly bold, putting her life constantly in danger. This is more obvious in her own Interlude. No need for further explanation.
    • She cannot activate La Pucelle against simply a strong opponent or out of strong emotions: the flames exist to save something, and they can only be used to save said something from a threat that must be destroyed (source).
    • Possible 3rd one if necessary: is explicitly unskilled with the Sword of St. Catherine.
  • New Intelligence Rating:
    • I feel like one can maybe justify giving Jeanne a Gifted rating, given her own bio (Bond 3 Bio) in Fate/Grand Order, it is said that she kept making miracles: being a country girl who didn't get an ounce of education (which explains her inability to read, write and do mathematics) and should know nothing but the Bible and a few words of prayer, she still was able to aptly go toe to toe with a first-class theologian in a debate. This is actually what made her difficult at sentencing as a heretic, so much so that they had to cheat. That, and it's her support and battle strategies/advice that were the turning point in the Siege of Orleans and the 100 Year War as a result.
  • Fate/EXTELLA Key: If thisconcluded thread is anything to go off of, she was supposed to get a key scaling to Tier 1 stuff by virtue of being a Top Servant. But this was never carried out it seems. So I am bringing this up again because I was also able to find some information that could maybe justify Jeanne scaling this high through Fate/EXTELLA aside from just being a Top Servant:
    • Basically, in her little campaign, she seemingly defeats Karna and Tamamo-No-Mae, the latter of which used the Regalia to go in her Moon Crux form during their fight and Jeanne could still damage her.
    • She survived and remained standing after receiving an onslaught from Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon even after being completely caught off-guard without a chance to defend herself.
Weird Feat
Idk if this was ever brought up or discussed here, but I'll still bring it up 'cause I feel like this is worth discussing: Jeanne alongside Mephistopheles defeat an equally powerful copy of Mephistopheles, Jalter and Fafnir in her Interlude in F/GO, while Jeanne was at less than half full power. It is said that this took place in a small world created by Jalter and it seemed like the stakes of this fight were real (as in, if Ritsuka woke up, he would've lost Jeanne forever, Jalter now being able to be summoned into Chaldea, etc). The Mephistopheles' were stated to have been equally matched, so this would mean Jeanne fought the two on her own. Oddly consistent with Jeanne blocking and offsetting a charged attack from Fafnir in the F/GO Manga while being just as weakened as in the game. But I imagine this is inconsistent with how our profiles are laid out unless further discussion indicates otherwise...

So... Yeah. That's all from me for now.

New Stuff
  • Light Manipulation
  • Energy Projection
  • Summoning (******* somehow)
 
Last edited:
Migue79 said:
Additions
Now let's move onto some new additions that I feel should be added to her profile:
  • New Abilities:
    • Existence Erasure: It is explicitly stated that all existence is annihilated by La Pucelle. So this should be a straightforward ability to add.
Weird Feat
Idk if this was ever brought up or discussed here, but I'll still bring it up 'cause I feel like this is worth discussing: Jeanne alongside Mephistopheles defeat an equally powerful copy of Mephistopheles, Jalter and Fafnir in her Interlude in F/GO, while Jeanne was at less than half full power. It is said that this took place in a small world created by Jalter and it seemed like the stakes of this fight were real (as in, if Ritsuka woke up, he would've lost Jeanne forever, Jalter now being able to be summoned into Chaldea, etc). The Mephistopheles' were stated to have been equally matched, so this would mean Jeanne fought the two on her own. Oddly consistent with Jeanne blocking and offsetting a charged attack from Fafnir in the F/GO Manga while being just as weakened as in the game. But I imagine this is inconsistent with how our profiles are laid out unless further discussion indicates otherwise...
Click to expand...
Scans?
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Scans?
Click to expand...
on EE part, its in Apo mats


-La Pucelle [Noble Phantasm]
Crimson Holy Maiden. The suicide-type Noble Phantasm used by Ruler. It is a Conceptual Weapon that crystalizes one’s mental landscape. It uses the Sword of St-Catherine, which Ruler never swung once in her lifetime, as its catalyst, and manifests the flames which once burned her to death. By using this Noble Phantasm, Ruler loses her own life. But in exchange for her life, she can annihilate anything in existence.
 
John985 said:
on EE part, its in Apo mats


-La Pucelle [Noble Phantasm]
Crimson Holy Maiden. The suicide-type Noble Phantasm used by Ruler. It is a Conceptual Weapon that crystalizes one’s mental landscape. It uses the Sword of St-Catherine, which Ruler never swung once in her lifetime, as its catalyst, and manifests the flames which once burned her to death. By using this Noble Phantasm, Ruler loses her own life. But in exchange for her life, she can annihilate anything in existence.
Click to expand...
apo mats?
 
Migue79 said:
Idk if this was ever brought up or discussed here, but I'll still bring it up 'cause I feel like this is worth discussing: Jeanne alongside Mephistopheles defeat an equally powerful copy of Mephistopheles, Jalter and Fafnir in her Interlude in F/GO, while Jeanne was at less than half full power. It is said that this took place in a small world created by Jalter and it seemed like the stakes of this fight were real (as in, if Ritsuka woke up, he would've lost Jeanne forever, Jalter now being able to be summoned into Chaldea, etc). The Mephistopheles' were stated to have been equally matched, so this would mean Jeanne fought the two on her own. Oddly consistent with Jeanne blocking and offsetting a charged attack from Fafnir in the F/GO Manga while being just as weakened as in the game. But I imagine this is inconsistent with how our profiles are laid out unless further discussion indicates otherwise...
Click to expand...
I would take Interlude feats with a grain of salt, since those have a tendency to have things like Nitocris soloing a hundred sphinxes. I'm not necessarily opposed, since there seems to be more here, but I will remain neutral on this for now

Otherwise, I agree with everything else
 
Interludes feats are overall are really weird, most of them aren't make sense with only few of them had an good feats (like Lartoria interlude)

Also surprised that you're here @Iapitus_The_Impaler
I thought you're not active anymore
 
Agreed.

Also I'd add Light Manipulation and Energy Projection, since in Extella her skills involve generating projectiles of light similar to Summer Jeanne:


Also Summoning and Dragon Manipulation, since she is shown to be able to control wyverns like Jeanne Alter in the first Medea Lily's interlude, though it is out of character for her to use this unless when extremely angry:
Jeanne
Come, messengers of the saint, winds of discipline! Gather under my flag and swear absolute obedience to me!

Wyvern
Grrr. Help m, grrr!

Astolfo
Ugh! (←SHOOK)

Jeanne
See, even I can do something as trivial as commanding wyverns!
I was just hiding that until I got angry because once I do this, I feel like I'll lose something more important than my image!

Dr. Roman
Hey, isn't she actually Alter!? Wait, we can talk it out! Let's just talk!
If anything, I'm totally on Team Jeanne!

Jeanne
No more excuses, no apologies accepted! Come on! Get them Team Jeanne! Punish these rude people!

Wyvern
Grrr. You're mea, grrr!

Iapitus_The_Impaler said:
I would take Interlude feats with a grain of salt, since those have a tendency to have things like Nitocris soloing a hundred sphinxes. I'm not necessarily opposed, since there seems to be more here, but I will remain neutral on this for now
Click to expand...
When Ritsuka is 'helping' we shouldn't assume that the accompanying Servant is soloing, Ritsuka doesn't just provide energy, he can summon a bunch of Shadow Servants as mentioned multiple times in the story:
Dy0lHqV.jpg
bmrOTDd.jpg


Geronimo
...Listen, Fujimaru. It seems he doesn't expect this to be a battle to the death.
Normally, the odds would be against us, but now that he isn't going all out, we might still have a chance if we can send him flying.
He's a Lancer. Summon Servants that are advantageous against him and unleash Noble Phantasms before he does. Got it?

This also applies to the Jeanne interlude.

Also, even Medea Lily's ridiculous second interlude got referenced in the main story:
Jason
Medea, of course! Who else could I possibly mean!?
The most terrifying, ill-tempered person ever! The last person I'd ever want to make angry, let alone be around when she IS!
Hell, I don't even want to be around her much when she isn't angry.
That's who! Medea, the haughty queen of the four crowns!

Nemo Professor
Isn't that only because of how you typically conduct yourself, Mr. Jason? Because you are, to put it mildly, sea scum?

Jason
Really? This is a woman once used a Demon God Pillar TO MAKE PANCAKES, and you think I'M the problem?
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Agreed.

Also I'd add Light Manipulation and Energy Projection, since in Extella her skills involve generating projectiles of light similar to Summer Jeanne:


Also Summoning and Dragon Manipulation, since she is shown to be able to control wyverns like Jeanne Alter in the first Medea Lily's interlude, though it is out of character for her to use this unless when extremely angry:
Jeanne
Come, messengers of the saint, winds of discipline! Gather under my flag and swear absolute obedience to me!

Wyvern
Grrr. Help m, grrr!

Astolfo
Ugh! (←SHOOK)

Jeanne
See, even I can do something as trivial as commanding wyverns!
I was just hiding that until I got angry because once I do this, I feel like I'll lose something more important than my image!

Dr. Roman
Hey, isn't she actually Alter!? Wait, we can talk it out! Let's just talk!
If anything, I'm totally on Team Jeanne!

Jeanne
No more excuses, no apologies accepted! Come on! Get them Team Jeanne! Punish these rude people!

Wyvern
Grrr. You're mea, grrr!


When Ritsuka is 'helping' we shouldn't assume that the accompanying Servant is soloing, Ritsuka doesn't just provide energy, he can summon a bunch of Shadow Servants as mentioned multiple times in the story:
Dy0lHqV.jpg
bmrOTDd.jpg


Geronimo
...Listen, Fujimaru. It seems he doesn't expect this to be a battle to the death.
Normally, the odds would be against us, but now that he isn't going all out, we might still have a chance if we can send him flying.
He's a Lancer. Summon Servants that are advantageous against him and unleash Noble Phantasms before he does. Got it?

This also applies to the Jeanne interlude.

Also, even Medea Lily's ridiculous second interlude got referenced in the main story:
Jason
Medea, of course! Who else could I possibly mean!?
The most terrifying, ill-tempered person ever! The last person I'd ever want to make angry, let alone be around when she IS!
Hell, I don't even want to be around her much when she isn't angry.
That's who! Medea, the haughty queen of the four crowns!

Nemo Professor
Isn't that only because of how you typically conduct yourself, Mr. Jason? Because you are, to put it mildly, sea scum?

Jason
Really? This is a woman once used a Demon God Pillar TO MAKE PANCAKES, and you think I'M the problem?
Click to expand...

Added Light & Energy abilities.

And… I’m perplexed at the fact she can summon dragons. It’s cool, yeah. But… Just wtf.

Also, did he know how to summon Shadow Servants early on in the game?
 
To add more about Jeanne strength she is also despicted various times in the game as a strong servant in general, the biggest example I can think are from the summer events where she give a tough fight to the protagonist team and could even fight against Raikou (though in the end she was defeated by Raikou), though Summer Jeanne is a bit of her own thing considering how weird and crazy she is so that could be left aside.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Summer Jeanne should be separated from the Regular Jeanne if you ask me
Click to expand...
Well, Summer Jeanne literally tells us in My Room lines that she has the same feelings as when she’s a Ruler.

And when she loses in game, she literally says that she thought her defenses were just as strong as to when she’s a Ruler. So, they’re the same person.

Unless you mean they should be different profiles which they already are.
 
I forgot to actually vote earlier. I agree with everything in the OP, including the Fafnir Feat since she fought twice, three times if you include the Manga where he was Amped.
 
Migue79 said:
Well, Summer Jeanne literally tells us in My Room lines that she has the same feelings as when she’s a Ruler.

And when she loses in game, she literally says that she thought her defenses were just as strong as to when she’s a Ruler. So, they’re the same person.

Unless you mean they should be different profiles which they already are.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Jeanne is stupidly OP. Didn't she also help fight BB at one point?
 
Migue79 said:
Also, did he know how to summon Shadow Servants early on in the game?
Click to expand...
Yes, though in the Singularities he usually needs to strengthen the connection to the Chaldea system by building a summoning circle connected to a Leyline.

Orleans:
Dr. Roman
...And now, there's one other thing I want you to do in addition to the mission.
That said, it's nothing major. It's for after you Rayshift to that era.
I want you to find a leyline and make a summoning circle. Just like you did in Fuyuki.
Unlike Fuyuki, we could probably make do as-is if it's just telepathic communication...
But to transport supplies, it won't work without establishing a summoning circle.
Just like before, once Mash sets up her Noble Phantasm it will act as a catalyst and trigger the summoning circle.
Once you do that, you can summon Servants at will.
Of course, what you summon will probably be Servants closely tied to that time and place.
So keep doing that to bolster your forces. Understood?

London:
Dr. Roman
We'll put the Servant summoning circle over the Leyline to boost Fujimaru and Mash's combat abilities.
Servants summoned by the circle aren't always active, but they're a huge help during battles!
All right! Let's start setting it up!

Babylonia:
Ishtar
Well, whatever. Anyway, I actually came to advise⸻Ah, ah,
achoo!
I came to give you some advice tonight. To plan against Quetzalcoatl.
...Hey. Were you trying to run away again when I was trying to be nice and tell you something?
That's just my imagination? The fruit water is good? ...O-okay, if you say so...
Anyway! Listen carefully to my suuuuuuper helpful advice!
Ready? She is a god of good, the apex of all things good. If you think about it, that means nothing good can work on her.
The only things that could really harm her would have to be evil. That's why if you get into battle, use an evil Servant to fight against her.
That way, you'll at least be able to fight better than before. No matter what happens, just don't rely on me!

Kara no Kyouki event:
Dr. Roman
Speaking of which, did you notice that Chaldea is a lot more quiet than usual?
The Servants that Fujimaru successfully summoned and formed a contract with...
They're receiving magical energy from Chaldea and setting up anchors for their existence all around this base.
You can call it a temporary incarnation.
If they keep using magical energy from their Master each time they're summoned into battle, Fujimaru would be all dried up already.
So, in order to lessen the burden cast on Fujimaru,
Chaldea is using 40% of its power to sustain the contract with each Servant.
As long as Grand Order is still in effect, these Servants have made Chaldea their home.

So that is the in-lore justification for Servant collection and gameplay.

It has been recontexualized in Shimousa that Ritsuka isn't teleporting the entire Servants from Chaldea, but is only borrowing the shadow of their Spirit Origin:
Musashi
Magical energy, huh? So, that means he's a Servant too? And unlike the ones you summon during battles...
...he came here from Chaldea in your world to try and save you.
So then, what makes him different from the ones you normally summon? Wait. Huh?

Choices
  • I don't know exactly why.
  • There shouldn't be any difference.

Fuuma Kotarou
You have...been summoning...during battles? Then, perhaps...that means...
...you have been...borrowing...the shadows of...their Spirit Origins...tempo...rarily...
Ritsuka during Shimousa (in his pseudo-body created while dreaming) just needed to have his Magic Circuits fixed to regain the ability to summon and 'fight as usual', so a summoning circle isn't always required.

In Anastasia, the streamlined summoning system is stated to summon the Shadows of the Servants:
Avicebron
Now, Master, we can talk more later. First, I'm going to make this cave into my workshop.
That should strengthen our ability to summon, which will in turn allow you to make use of your Spirit Origin graph.
That way, you may call upon the shadows of the Servants registered within that briefcase whenever you like.
You will, of course, only be able to do so in combat, as this power is sadly quite limited in its scope.
Now then...I think I shall rest until the workshop is complete.
 
.most of the additions seem to be legit although I wonder if there will be Counter arguments for the Tier 1 scaling but for the most part i agree
 
@ShadowWhoWalks That makes sense. Now to argue Ritsuka’s Shadow Servants scale to Immeasurable in speed given Edmond Dantes was defeated by him lul

Also, no one shall mind if I go ahead and apply the stuff that isn’t the weird feat (given the other stuff was unanimously accepted even by a staff member and the weird feat is still being discussed) onto Jeanne’s profile, right?
 
Go ahead.

I'd personally just classify that weird feat as another FGO outlier. God knows we have enough of them.
 
Sure.

I’m fine with calling the weird feat an outlier for now. It throws a wrench into how the profiles and keys for servants are organised lol
 
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