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Rule Violations Reports - 61

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DarkGrath

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If he's gone out of his way to ignore being blocked and make a sock puppet account, then yeah, he probably should be permablocked.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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I permanently blocked the sock account, and while he still seems more naive rather than intentionally trollish, he still sounds really ignorant and annoying. And making a sock, is definitely something that requires a stricter punishment. Which would include extending his original account. But should that one also be permanent? Or should it just be more lengthened with a firm warning about making socks?
 
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I mean, the warnings are clearly not working in the slightest, and if we just extend it that would just higher the chances of him making another sock puppet. So ban him permanently since that tactic isn't working.
 
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Gewsbumpz dude said:
I mean, the warnings are clearly not working in the slightest, and if we just extend it that would just higher the chances of him making another sock puppet. So ban him permanently.
Just lengthening it seems fine. This logic of "If we extend the ban that makes him more likely to make a sock puppet than permanently banning" makes no sense.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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I lengthened it to three months, and also included a warning that if he makes another sock, the next extend will be permanent. If people think that's two generous, I don't mind being extended even further.
 
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ShadowWarrior1999 said:
People who make sock accounts typically get perma bans. I don't see why we should make an exception here.
Really? I think I remember people that weren't permabanned the first time not getting permabans for having socks.

The thing is that people who make sock accounts typically have bad intentions, and so are already permabanned, or they only make a sock to insult people, resulting in a permaban.
 
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In my experience here people who create socks get perma banned since if they're trying to evade a ban, then that would indicate they have no intention of following the rules.
 

Antvasima

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I think that a 3 month block should be enough as long as he is not actively destructive or malicious.
 

DarkGrath

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He does seem like he's shaped up at least a bit, but I'm still a bit dubious. What does everyone else think?
 
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I'm a bit cautious, no matter how many chances I gave ZaStando, he seemed to always start drama. So I'm not too sure about this. Anyone else wants to give their opinion?
 

GyroNutz

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Just saying, not only did GreenCyan make a sock, he continued to do the exact same thing that he was warned + blocked for on this sock account. He 100% seems like a troll to me, which along with the sockpuppet thing made me advocate for a permban.
 
Either way I always believe the punishment should fit the crime and tbh we want to promote a healthy/open discussion atmosphere here; folks that continue to break that atmosphere to the point of creating socks (after getting multiple warnings as well as a ban), come across as too much trouble for their worth imo (sorry if that came off as a bit too strict but that's just how I feel).

As for ZaStando27; I honestly don't know (since I was pretty new here when he got banned) but I'll remain neutral on that situation for now.
 
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Idk about Zastando coming back again, but if he doesn't do anything bad then there's no harm right? If he does it again just don't give him a second chance, but I am neutral about this
 

Antvasima

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I do not remember so well, but I think that part of it was that he relentlessly argued to exaggerate the statistics for Sonic characters to insane degrees.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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It wasn't just him exaggerating Sonic statistics to extreme levels; like first it was High 1-C, but rather they were threads that had OPs that were over a 100 paragraphs long. And the fact that he was doing all of that while trying to downplay Mario Bros using completely out of context stuff. It's a sign of clear irrational Bias, which I'm not saying that's ban worthy unless people are really aggressive about it. He didn't seem too well or mis-behaved, but his threads were indeed all over the place and it was very problematic for the staff to deal with and the proposals were severe on both ends. Making your favorite verse go from 2-C to 1-A and an opposite verse go from 2-B at their peak to something like Tier 7 or less was the thing to sink in about how extreme that is.

And he did get three or more warnings and simply a 3 month block at the time. He did shape up when he came back and only advocated for 2-A via merging continuities. Which wasn't too bad, plus he seemed more well behaved and considerate then. The second time he was banned, it was because ShadowWarrior1999 was literally making fun of him on Discord for believing in 1-A Sonic. And ZaStando did confront him on his wall and sort of harassed him. Though him attacking Shadow was definitely uncalled for, and he should have informed a staff member instead of confronting him directly. But he felt understandably personally attacked. Perhaps a permanent ban was rather excessive, and I don't think he'll be trying too hard to get Sonic upgraded or any opposing verses downgraded now. But the hard part I see here now is the unhealthy relationships between the Sonic fandom in general.

I know Bambu and HR group are still talking about what to do with Corgi and his friends, but I will at least say that we should avoid any hasty decisions is all I have to say. I'm more neutral on letting ZaStando or EarthyBoy back, but they must promise not to go too overboard with their content revisions while also staying well behaved. I believe BlitzSevenTeen should be allowed back; it seems he's not a sock of ZaStando.
 
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We already decided before that ZaStando can't come back, I don't know why he thinks this time would be any different. ZaStando would only cause trouble by lashing out at people who don't agree with his exaggerated tiering on Sonic. Then when people express their distaste for how he acts, he frames it as them "cyberbullying" him. He already made a promise to behave before only to act up again and that's what got him permanently banned.

Oh and this part of his comment "I just remembered that before my second ban I received no warning which is concerning, I'm of the few members of the wiki who has received no warning"

This is wrong as Ant told him to stop but he didn't listen and still kept going so then he got banned.
 
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I also agree Perhaps a permanent ban was too much. I think allowing Zastando and Blitz back on should help to bridge the gap between the staff here and many of the Sonic fans.
 
^Ok that's seems pretty clear cut tbh, I saw that behaviour too.

EDiT: Ngl his blog was pretty hilarious to read however this Wiki isn't for political debate and bringing politics/social commentary into fiction rarely ends well.

Also I don't mind either way if folks gets unbanned, just as long as the folks are still redeemable (like I said earlier some will never change).
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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The third example sounds more like a joke; it is suspicious, but I don't think it's too ban worthy. And me an Ant already addressed the problems with that blog, but deleting said blog would probably be best. The first example however was uncalled for, and Dargoo warned him about it. But I have to run to work now, so I can't handle anything ATM.
 

Antvasima

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We should probably get rid of him, yes. He has a too disrespectful attitude. He also created the "Outlier Manipulation" blog, that was a personal attack on me. I had to clean it up a bit and delete some posts of his that insulted me.
 

Antvasima

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Except that I am a moderate conservative anti-globalist of course, which I have got into repeated trouble for, although a very left-leaning one in terms of economic policy, and I'm still somehow your chosen target.
 

The_Impress

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You know when you're unreliable, you made 80 broken, poorly made profiles which you refuse to help in fixing, even insulting the person and even doing lite-trolling out of spite against them?

It's all fun and games, right? Except when mom has to come home and clean the room while you're sitting around asking her to fuck off. Acceptable behaviour? No.

Vouching for the ban
 

DarkGrath

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Look, I'll be honest, Corgi.

I'm normally the kind of person to defend people making jokes to any extent, even to the point of being outright offensive. But you're really causing a lot of trouble here. You don't just make offensive jokes and comments, you outright direct them towards specific people in quite blatantly passive aggressive ways and then call off all blame on yourself afterwards by saying that it's "all just a joke".

The ability to take a personally offensive joke is a virtue, not an obligation. Action will have to be taken if you keep going out of your way to directly target and offend people.
 
Overall I think a ban is too extreme (given the context), sure a more stern warning but it's not like he say or did anything overly malicious but that's just my two cents.
 

The_Wright_Way

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The Axiom of Virgo said:
Overall I think a ban is too extreme (given the context), sure a more stern warning but it's not like he say or did anything overly malicious but that's just my two cents.
He called everyone here libtards. That's pretty fucking malicious if you ask me.
 
Antvasima said:
Except that I am a moderate conservative anti-globalist of course, which I have got into repeated trouble for, although a very left-leaning one in terms of economic policy, and I'm still somehow your chosen target.
You just behavior very admin like. It's just that funny ironically. Nothing more.
 
DarkGrath said:
Look, I'll be honest, Corgi.
I'm normally the kind of person to defend people making jokes to any extent, even to the point of being outright offensive. But you're really causing a lot of trouble here. You don't just make offensive jokes and comments, you outright direct them towards specific people in quite blatantly passive aggressive ways and then call off all blame on yourself afterwards by saying that it's "all just a joke".

The ability to take a personally offensive joke is a virtue, not an obligation. Action will have to be taken if you keep going out of your way to directly target and offend people.
Discord doesn't count.
 

Antvasima

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I usually try as best as I can to be polite, respectful, and professional, but I also get annoyed, frustrated, and impatient during some especially tiresome discussions. I am far from perfect.
 
Schnee, if you make Discord shenanigans the problem on the wiki, that's on you. Not me because I choose it to be on Discord to not make it said problem.
 

The_Wright_Way

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Only Discord shenanigans ARE the problem off the wiki. People have been banned here for stuff they've done on Discord.
 

Schnee_One

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Corgi the Gen Z God said:
Schnee, if you make Discord shenanigans the problem on the wiki, that's on you. Not me because I choose it to be on Discord to not make it said problem.
False, direct communication with other members in such a way is ban worthy regardless of it being on the site or not.

I choose to make it a problem because it is a problem no matter how you spin it
 

Antvasima

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I have now banned Gewsbumpz. We should preferably drop any further discussion about Discord and the like.
 
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I thought this was about Gew being banned, why is Discord and Corgi being brought up when they have done nothing right now? Isn't this about Gew blogs and attitude?
 

Promestein

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I don't think Gewsbumpz deserves an infinite ban, bans can be shorter than that
 

Antvasima

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Okay. I will change the block to 6 months instead.

Let's drop this topic please.
 
Honestly if I'm going to be frank here; folks need to grow a thicker skin (I've seen my fair share of insults and black humour on various sites); lets not pretend folks don't say "controversial" things both out loud or in private (as well as Discord servers) we are all humans and we've got our flaws.

All I want is an open discussion atmosphere, banning folks over comments that are no worse than what you see on YT just seems a little too extreme from PoV.

Ofc when folks engaged in sustained harassment, consistently post spam/sock accounts and make threats then yeah ban them!.

Honestly not long ago I would be all for banning via insults and potentially offensive jokes but now it just feels like an overreaction imo.
 
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ShadowWarrior1999 said:
We already decided before that ZaStando can't come back, I don't know why he thinks this time would be any different. ZaStando would only cause trouble by lashing out at people who don't agree with his exaggerated tiering on Sonic. Then when people express their distaste for how he acts, he frames it as them "cyberbullying" him. He already made a promise to behave before only to act up again and that's what got him permanently banned.

Oh and this part of his comment "I just remembered that before my second ban I received no warning which is concerning, I'm of the few members of the wiki who has received no warning"

This is wrong as Ant told him to stop but he didn't listen and still kept going so then he got banned.
If this is true he probably shouldn't be unbanned. This sounds like he's already gotten his second chance and his third chance, yet has still misbehaved.
 

Moritzva

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There's a difference between people being meanies on Discord and people actively planning to bring down the wiki.

To what extent do we punish behavior on other sites?

This concerns me because, y'know, it's my Discord.
 

Abstractions

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Simple disrespectful behavior on Discord was never the issue, people that cause problems here just tend to carry that elsewhere, we aren't the internet police.

You don't get banned here for being just being rude about a member on Discord, only something serious like attempting to dox someone here or something equally malicious over Discord would warrant a ban because it shows how you aren't here to bring positive discussion.
 

Moritzva

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Abstractions makes sense here. I don't want to ban people only off of being dicks on, say, my discord; I banned Corgi for his behavior already, I don't like double jeopardy.

But I can understand it here.
 

Antvasima

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It has to be evaluated from case to case. We cannot have some people here behave like it is okay for them to systematically harrass other members just because it isn't within the wiki itself.
 
Moritzva said:
Abstractions makes sense here. I don't want to ban people only off of being dicks on, say, my discord; I banned Corgi for his behavior already, I don't like double jeopardy.
But I can understand it here.
And you add me back in.
 

Abstractions

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While I hate to speculate, the appreciation for Tomoko and the name "NPC Ant" reek of Gewsbumpz.
 

The_Wright_Way

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I mean, his first edit was an edit of Outlier Manipulation, changing it to "My Cause is Just". It's either Gewsbumpz or someone trying to frame him.
 

Abstractions

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I only commented based on that thread alone, but it truly doesn't take a detective to spot.

I also wouldn't see the point in framing him, what does it do to frame someone who was just banned?
 
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DaBoi has done absolutely nothing to warrant anything above a warning. He probably did that because he was fond of the blog rather than to cause more havoc by trolling, as I'm a fairly close friend of his and the humor of the blog didn't target anyone in particular.

I doubt he did that with any malicious intent. Someone should inform him.
 

Antvasima

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@ShakeResounding

He specifically inserted the removed quote that targeted me personally.
 
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Oh, hi, you found the reposted joke blog. Nice!

As for "trolling", the blog's purpose was never to personally attack anyone in particular. Just everyone, which is what jokes like this are meant for. The person even left the name of the person who said the quote out of it out of respect for the person who said the quote's privacy. Literally a joke to poke fun at a funny side of the Versus Debating community and a funny thing that (I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong) you said which is why I reposted it. Because I found it funny and it would be shame to get rid of it because someone identified with it too closely and felt offended. Let's not give in to cancel culture, please. Like you said on another thread, Ant, there's too much restriction for speech nowadays and since it's in the blog section, I should be able to put whatever on it as long as it's not offending anyone in particular. Just those who feel too attacked by it because they may a little insecure and denial to take the joke.

There is no malicious intent whatsoever, but if you're going to take it as that, I don't really have much to say other than the blog seems no different from the many joke threads on the wiki and its not really disrupting anything aside from the emotions of people who feel personally attacked. 'Guess the only difference would be its a blog and not a proper joke thread.
 
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