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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

Antvasima said:
Hmm. I am no longer sure if a warning tracker type warning, rather than just an instruction to both Jinx and Sean to make an effort to collaborate, seems necessary here. 🙏
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Well, if they actually started editing pages into fan art without credit, I think an official warning is still appropriate.

If this is all just conceptual argument, an instruction is probably more appropriate.

I'm unclear which is the case here.
 
Well I don't mind either way personally, although I havent really appreciated their hostility and response, nor their inability to understand why taking fanart and uncrediting it is bad among blaming me for multiple things

They most definitely have used fanart, but given thats the current standard of the Verse page, i wasn't going into it trying to blame them as opposed to just letting him know like i did in the discussion thread. I didnt even directly say it to him. It's more the fact that they outright stated that they were going to continue using fanart despite being told multiple times that it is an issue, and that its against the rules, which tells me that he was willing to continually do it and thats why i entered this thread asking if a mod could explain it to him.

I get the instruction plain and simple, its difficult when i disagree a lot with how Pokemon is ran on this verse, but I genuinely do not want this to keep happening everytime i say anything.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Unironically if a mod just told me to only use fanart as a last resort, I would do it.
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Alright but that doesn't mean you can just disregard the rule because a mod isn't the one calling you out on it, then trying to claim i'm attacking you based on it. I only came here because you actively said you were going to ignore this and keep using stolen fanart
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Unironically if a mod just told me to only use fanart as a last resort, I would do it.
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Well you should preferably be willing to listen to other community members if they reasonably bring up a concern, rather than assuming you can ignore them entirely just because they are not a staff member, and then continuing to make edits anyway.

I can't see a logical reason you wouldn't have immediately asked a staff member to clear the issue up instead other than wanting to continue to do it despite believing they might be right.

Regardless, I can definitely tell you:

You should probably only use fanart as a last resort. That rule, as I understand it, is more for things which have basically no good useable pictures, like novels which never receive proper illustrations whatsoever, or games which are so graphically limited that the main character is just a dot on the screen outside of descriptions, or characters that only ever appeared in the background, etc.
 
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Jinx666 said:
Im not a victim of anything, although 'you're lucky i didnt report you for vandalism' (which i didnt do) sounds a bit threatening
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Oh no, did the guy who wants the absolute best for Pokemon and has contributed to it the most out of anyone on this site make the person who ruins all Pokemon discussions clutch his pearls?
Jinx666 said:
I'm not refusing, it just is a huge task to replace all this fanart thats been present since the beginning of the page's creation. It takes a lot of picture farming, downloading, and replacing for most of the current profiles. And right now, irl, i havent got time to do all that on my own.
It wouldnt need a CRT to fix a blatant aspect of the page that goes against the current rules, but like others' in the discussion thread have said, it is worth making a thread and discussing how we go about it to maximise
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Yeah, downloading images is a hard life. Pretty sure changing like a few hundred images is something you need to get permission for.
Jinx666 said:
This isnt about disdain or personal grudge. The point is, fanart shouldnt be exploited and used without its creators' permission for this site because its not only part of the rules, but immoral.

A) Most pokemon pages dont have this gallery (or need it, since a lot of it is irrelevant to the powerscaling aspect of the character)
B) What you consider good official art is subjective, and doesnt rule out things to the point you need to take fanart.
C) Its fine to reuse images for icons on a separate page if the image is already being used in a gallery.
D) Icons dont necessarily need to 'capture the essence', they just visually need to show what page they're linking to. I agree they dont have to be barebones boring, but Pokemon isnt lacking that whatsoever
E) Theres still tons upon tons of viable official art for Pokemon.
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Even if a character has a lot of artwork, that doesn't mean it's all suitable for their character icon. For example they need to be alone in the image, and have nothing going on in the bottom of the picture to leave space for their name.
Jinx666 said:
And that was initially fine, I just wanted to let you know that it is against the rules to keep using uncredited fanart, i didnt intend to punish or berate you about it because the page still has tons of taken fanart. Onlt that it is preferable if you could not contribute to that current problem (While also reversing a useful QoL edit i made a year ago for the sake of it). Its when it suddenly became an argument, and you refused to stop taking peoples fanart without their permission and credit despite knowing it is against the rules.
Click to expand...
If you didn't want that, we wouldn't be in Rule Violations Reports. Also it wasn't useful or a QoL edit. Tabbers are known for ruining the look of pages, and that's why a lot of our rival verses (Digimon, Marvel, DC) don't use them.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Oh no, did the guy who wants the absolute best for Pokemon and has contributed to it the most out of anyone on this site make the person who ruins all Pokemon discussions clutch his pearls?
Click to expand...
This is very rude and egotistical, which does not reflect well on you for the sake of this report.

If you cannot be civil, then you may lose the ability to comment here until this is resolved.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Oh no, did the guy who wants the absolute....
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Not really the situation, but thats the kind of hostility im talking about
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Yeah, downloading images is a hard life. Pretty sure changing like a few hundred images is something you need to get permission for.
Click to expand...
Downloading over 300 images, uploading them to vsbw and making sure they're to scale is most definitely a long task for one person to do, less so that its hard. And as evident from the rules and the thread, it is always a welcome change to replace uncredited fanart with official images.

The only permission that would be needed is the permission of the artist whose work you are using.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Even if a character has a lot of artwork, that doesn't mean it's all suitable for their character icon. For example they need to be alone in the image, and have nothing going on in the bottom of the picture to leave space for their name.
Click to expand...
Thats really easy to do for Pokemon. Even then, the formatting of the nametag and borders can also be adjusted to fit any wider issues
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
If you didn't want that, we wouldn't be in Rule Violations Reports. Also it wasn't useful or a QoL edit. Tabbers are known for ruining the look of pages, and that's why a lot of our rival verses (Digimon, Marvel, DC) don't use them.
Click to expand...
I wouldnt call Marvel and DC a rival verse to Pokemon necessarily, but Digimon does use tabbers for their Verse page.
With Marvel and DC, those are sorted alphabetically with no clear way to categorise characters, unlike Pokemon where you can do it via Generation they were introduced.

I'm sorry you dont like the look of tabbers but they are very widely being used and considered on the wiki now that its not exactly breaking the rules or vandalising when using them. The Verse has been using that tabber for ages now so i don't exactly know why you're taking an issue with it now
 
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Just a note that I do not think that it seems remotely realistic to actually go around and ask permission from every single fan artist whose work we use, but we should give credit and preferably link to them within our image pages, and if they ask us to delete specific images that they created, we should always comply. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Just a note that I do not think that it seems remotely realistic to actually go around and ask permission from every single fan artist whose work we use, but we should give credit and preferably link to them within our image pages, and if they ask us to delete specific images that they created, we should always comply. 🙏
Click to expand...
Its definitely not, and for a verse like Pokemon with countless official images of any character you could ever make a page for, theres no real reason to continue using it. The Fanart has been used back when Pokemon first came onto the wiki, before the rules like this were enforced.

It is genuinely just going to be a chore, but nonetheless will need to be done eventually. Its just a matter of not continuing to take uncredited fanart, which Pazdera is being difficult about.
 
Just to point out, if stock standard art like Ken Sugimori's isn't "dynamic" or whatever enough, I would like to remind both that there is literally tens of thousands of artwork suitable for icons thanks to the TCG, many mons of which have dozens of options to choose from, some even having hundreds.

Just crop some official TCG art if you want the icons to look less bland (there's even TCG artbook scans too).

Though, this really isn't the place to discuss this, but at the same time that's exactly why a thread should have been made. Someone go make one ig and move this discussion over to there.
 
Jinx666 said:
Its definitely not, and for a verse like Pokemon with countless official images of any character you could ever make a page for, theres no real reason to continue using it. The Fanart has been used back when Pokemon first came onto the wiki, before the rules like this were enforced.

It is genuinely just going to be a chore, but nonetheless will need to be done eventually. Its just a matter of not continuing to take uncredited fanart, which Pazdera is being difficult about.
Click to expand...
I meant that our standard praxis is to not ask before we use fanart, but ideally always give credit for it when we know its origins, and to comply to takedown requests. 🙏
 
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Antvasima said:
I meant that our standard praxis is to not ask before we use fanart, but ideally always give credit for it when we know its origins, and to comply to takedown requests. 🙏
Click to expand...
Thats fine though the rules are saying
"Always respect the intellectual property rights of artists and do not use their work without their permission or proper attribution. This includes not claiming their work as your own or using it for commercial purposes without their consent."

It's not exactly commercial (though i dont know how we can make a vs battles wiki page commercial in the first place) but i think it would be better if we did at least try to seek out any artists and ask first before just inserting their art. Theres no guarantee they will see or know about their art being posted on this site, so we cant really be sure if they'd be okay with it or not based on that, i do know a few artists that don't like their art being used off their pages/social medias in any capacity. I don't know if something like that has even happened for the wiki.

This is isnt applicable to Pokemon though given the countless official images and arts, and is simply using fanart like this due to it being an old page that didn't have rules such as this enforced
 
Jinx666 said:
Thats fine though the rules are saying
"Always respect the intellectual property rights of artists and do not use their work without their permission or proper attribution. This includes not claiming their work as your own or using it for commercial purposes without their consent."

It's not exactly commercial (though i dont know how we can make a vs battles wiki page commercial in the first place) but i think it would be better if we did at least try to seek out any artists and ask first before just inserting their art. Theres no guarantee they will see or know about their art being posted on this site, so we cant really be sure if they'd be okay with it or not based on that, i do know a few artists that don't like their art being used off their pages/social medias in any capacity. I don't know if something like that has even happened for the wiki.

This is isnt applicable to Pokemon though given the countless official images and arts, and is simply using fanart like this due to it being an old page that didn't have rules such as this enforced
Click to expand...
We've had artists object to their material being found here before, so we removed it. The rules as they are don't forbid the use of fanart without explicit and direct permission from the artist. That said, given the breadth of art available for Pokemon, it should just be used, yeah.
 
I was notified of a user posting off-site saying that they get tired of their opposition's bad arguments and FRA train, and so asked for people to FRA them, even though that would make the results inaccurate, so that they could stop worrying about it.

They linked to this thread, and given the participants, it seems like that could only have been @Razor requesting this. Based on the time it was posted, it doesn't look like anyone voted for their preferred character as the result of that message.

So, Razor, do you have anything to say for yourself regarding this?
 
Agnaa said:
I was notified of a user posting off-site saying that they get tired of their opposition's bad arguments and FRA train, and so asked for people to FRA them, even though that would make the results inaccurate, so that they could stop worrying about it.

They linked to this thread, and given the participants, it seems like that could only have been @Razor requesting this. Based on the time it was posted, it doesn't look like anyone voted for their preferred character as the result of that message.

So, Razor, do you have anything to say for yourself regarding this?
Click to expand...
I am not the person who posted that message. I'm not even aware of any discord server that had this sites members in it. You could ask the people who voted for Adam in that thread, I never once talked to them or asked them to vote for Adam. That is most likely Greatsage, the person who was arguing for BoBoiBoy in the thread. As his statement of being tired of the thread lines up with his absence in the discussion.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Yes, Agnaa?
Click to expand...
Agnaa said:
I was notified of a user posting off-site saying that they get tired of their opposition's bad arguments and FRA train, and so asked for people to FRA them, even though that would make the results inaccurate, so that they could stop worrying about it.

They linked to this thread, and given the participants, it seems like that could only have been @Razor requesting this. Based on the time it was posted, it doesn't look like anyone voted for their preferred character as the result of that message.

So, Razor, do you have anything to say for yourself regarding this?
Click to expand...
Razor said:
I am not the person who posted that message. I'm not even aware of any discord server that had this sites members in it. You could ask the people who voted for Adam in that thread, I never once talked to them or asked them to vote for Adam. That is most likely Greatsage, the person who was arguing for BoBoiBoy in the thread. As his statement of being tired of the thread lines up with his absence in the discussion.
Click to expand...
 
Yep, that was me (and also the above is the reason why I asked @Antvasima to temporarily kick me out of the forum).

Edit: Ah, I just realized that entire convo you quoted was just a few comments up. I did not notice that.
 
Welp, seems like they're asking for a ban, so I'm gonna go ahead and provisionally ban them for one month.

Other staff, please still weigh in; I'm open to lengthening the ban if other staff deem it necessary, but I'd also be willing to lift it if Greatsage requests it.
 
It seems best to finish the conversation here first regarding for how long they wish to be banned from our forum before banning them. 🙏
 
I'm fine being a bit more hasty in this case as they've pinged me on Discord; I know they know how to easily contact me if they want it changed.
 
Agnaa said:
Welp, seems like they're asking for a ban, so I'm gonna go ahead and provisionally ban them for one month.

Other staff, please still weigh in; I'm open to lengthening the ban if other staff deem it necessary, but I'd also be willing to lift it if Greatsage requests it.
Click to expand...
Behavior sucks, obviously in violation of the rules and significantly so at that, but I don't think I'd go harsher than a one month ban. They have a single warning prior due to vandalism over a year ago, I don't think I'd even suggest a ban in this singular instance- just an extremely strict warning. Can't allow people to do that sort of thing, after all.
 
This seems somewhat similar (1) (2)

Although the report linked above, involved users who had other things going on (false accusations, and spamming on top of the whole requesting votes on discord thing) the proposal prior to considering all that and focusing only on the vote requests was 1-3 months.

Considering how, in this case, the user self-admitted it was them, and that they’re behavior isn’t bad, I’d say I’m fine with the lower end of the spectrum aka just keeping it at 1 mo.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Cavewoman (Verse)

Cavewoman is an American alternative comic book created by writer-artist Budd Root, and published from 1993 to 2009, primarily by Basement Comics and additionally by Caliber Comics and Avatar Press. The story follows superhuman Meriem Cooper, a 19-year-old jungle woman who battles dinosaurs and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Klyde (Cavewoman)

Klyde is an enhanced gorilla used by Gramps to test out his strength serum, making him far stronger and bigger than his species. He was stuck in the past after his death, alongside Cavewoman, and the two have a tumultuous relationship ever since then. Tier: 9-B Name: Klyde Origin: Cavewoman...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Guy vandalizing pages. Usually would chalk this up to a new user **** up but seems deliberate.
 
The_Impress said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Cavewoman (Verse)

Cavewoman is an American alternative comic book created by writer-artist Budd Root, and published from 1993 to 2009, primarily by Basement Comics and additionally by Caliber Comics and Avatar Press. The story follows superhuman Meriem Cooper, a 19-year-old jungle woman who battles dinosaurs and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Klyde (Cavewoman)

Klyde is an enhanced gorilla used by Gramps to test out his strength serum, making him far stronger and bigger than his species. He was stuck in the past after his death, alongside Cavewoman, and the two have a tumultuous relationship ever since then. Tier: 9-B Name: Klyde Origin: Cavewoman...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Guy vandalizing pages. Usually would chalk this up to a new user **** up but seems deliberate.
Click to expand...
Isn't this stuff reserved for Wiki Vandalism?
 
Reporting Magdalenus for suggesting that someone should ask a very obviously leading question to Hugo Martin, creative director for Doom. I don't think he actually did go on Twitter to ask him anything, but I feel like a staff member should advise or warn him about this forum's rules on leading questions, especially since Magdalenus was suggesting the idea of wording it in a specific way so Hugo would agree with the flail being infinitely heavy

In the same thread Hellscream also suggested asking a leading question that definitely sounds like something only a powerscaler would ask
 
Hypertornado099 said:
Reporting Magdalenus for suggesting that someone should ask a very obviously leading question to Hugo Martin, creative director for Doom. I don't think he actually did go on Twitter to ask him anything, but I feel like a staff member should advise or warn him about this forum's rules on leading questions, especially since Magdalenus was suggesting the idea of wording it in a specific way so Hugo would agree with the flail being infinitely heavy

In the same thread Hellscream also suggested asking a leading question that definitely sounds like something only a powerscaler would ask
Click to expand...
This seems very mundane and likely just ignorance, so I don't think an actual warning of any kind is warranted, but I will let them know our policy.

(Plus there's a generally accepted thread about the rule where we were in the process of refining it.)
 
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