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Rule Violation Reports - 23

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just because it "happens all the time" doesn't justify it. Sure its common practice so I don't judge the person, but the practice doesn't allow users to defend themselves. In the case of something like posting ****, then yeah, report them and ban them without letting them know. But in the case of something more nebulous like what Rapid was being charged with, they should know, and have a chance to defend themselves. I watch this thread just incase someone I know or I am being reported, if they show up anyway then make it official. Someone should know they are on the chopping block if they are

maybe I feel this way because I just got smited with no warning by a bot and was banned for a month, but people should at least be informed they are under consideration for a charge before it is hande out
 
Except people show up to defend themselves always? Most of every single Rule Violation thread is made up of people arguing over their infringements.
 
Promestein said:
Except people show up to defend themselves always? Most of every single Rule Violation thread is made up of people arguing over their infringements.
Click to expand...
yes, so if it "happens anyway" then make it official. Send them a message on their wall that they are being charged. It shouldn't be up to friends of the people to turn up, or people watching from what would be otherwise paranoia.

it does matter why something happens. Due Process matters, and defense should be a part of that. it should not be an optional thing
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'm sorry, but that's unrealistic. It isn't wrong, nor unjustified. Like, at all.
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sending someone a message on their wall; "hey, you have been reported and are potentially going to be blocked." Sending someone a one sentence message and a link to the thread is unrealistic?

This kind of thing is how you get what happened to me repeated all too often
 
Does that address anything that I said? At the very least, add a note in the introductory thing all Members get that says:

"You will not be notified if you are reported. it is recommened you follow the Rules Violation Reports"

Someone shouldn't need to check the warents list to see if their is a charge against them. They should be informed of it
 
We deal with way too much rule breakers every day to be worth it to take the time to give a friendly warning to everyone we report, especially since cases where the reported person gives a sensible defense are rare at best. Just look at Rapid's reaction.

Besides, you've got to be quite oblivious to the rules in the first place if we've come to the point of banning you and you haven't at least thought about defending yourself in any way before that point.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
We deal with way too much rule breakers every day to be worth it to take the time to give a friendly warning to everyone we report, especially since cases where the reported person gives a sensible defense are rare at best. Just look at Rapid's reaction.
Besides, you've got to be quite oblivious to the rules in the first place if we've come to the point of banning you and you haven't at least thought about defending yourself in any way before that point.
Click to expand...
So use the alternative I gave. Add it to the introductory message you give everyone that they will not be warned. So you toss out all of the good cases with the bad ones? Rapid's reaction to not being notified would be justified if I got a message from a friend that I was having nebulous charges brought against me without being told. And yes, I would be outraged too if my page got deleted without even the chance to save a copy for myself elsewhere

I take it you didn't hear that I got banned by a Fandom bot for a meme that had some swearing. Knowledge of the rules does not save you from missaplication of them, or being too draconian about them. Rapid's case came from rules that he would not have thought to think he had broken
 
Fandom bots are entirely different from actual people. False equivalency. There was no discussion and no explanation until after the block in your case, while here, it's quite clear that there is discussion and even if Rapid did get banned there'd have been an explanation on his block log and he'd have every opportunity to discuss and possibly appeal the ban elsewhere. You could not appeal your block and you had to go seek an explanation from Fandom staff personally.

If Rapid had been instantly banned with no explanation, no discussion, and no report, you'd be right, but he hasn't been banned and I doubt he was ever in danger of getting anything more than a warning.

If a user is going to be banned immediately without a warning - since most users reported are warned afterwards - then they did something worth instantly banning. And again, Iapitus, if your page gets deleted and you want the code, ask the admi, because they can supply you with it.
 
Promestein said:
Fandom bots are entirely different from actual people. False equivalency. There was no discussion and no explanation until after the block in your case, while here, it's quite clear that there is discussion and even if Rapid did get banned there'd have been an explanation on his block log and he'd have every opportunity to discuss and possibly appeal the ban elsewhere. You could not appeal your block and you had to go seek an explanation from Fandom staff personally.
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Using it as an example of rules being dished out without the user being informed. How I am using it it does work as an equivolency. You should be able to defend before you are punished; not punished before you have a chance to defend youself.

Promestein said:
If a user is going to be banned immediately without a warning - since most users reported are warned afterwards - then they did something worth instantly banning. And again, Iapitus, if your page gets deleted and you want the code, ask the admin, because they can supply you with it.
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As i said, if it was something like that then its fine. Again, the ability to salvage should come before the destruction, not the destruction before the ability to claim the data.
 
It has been, apologies. Any further discussion on this should be on another thread.
 
Well, in Wikipedia you have to inform members if you bring them up for a potential ban at the administrators noticeboard.

Perhaps we could do something similar here? Not for blatant rule violations or entirely new accounts of course, but for established members in more uncertain cases.
 
If other staff members want to make that a process, I don't mind. It was never an issue before and people were always able to defend themselves before, so I didn't think much of it. Though, in this case, Rapid was extremely unlikely to be banned and would've received a light warning at best, so there wasn't really any danger here.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, in Wikipedia you have to inform members if you bring them up for a potential ban at the administrators noticeboard.
Perhaps we could do something similar here? Not for blatant rule violations or entirely new accounts of course, but for established members in more uncertain cases.
Click to expand...
I agree. Should a thread be made about it?
 
If you want a profile deleted, say why in the profile deletion thread and give the author a chance to save their work in a blog.

If yiu want to report someone, LET THEM KNOW on their wall of what the charge is.

Real life courts send you a notification mail if you are requested to appear on court for a trial of what you are being charged of.
 
If they delete your page you can ask for the code, what's the problem with that. You can recover it.
 
Lets say you publish a painting, and then the museum guards take it down and set it on fire without telling you about it.

You ask then why they did it, but they say "we dont have to tell you anything, we can take down paintings without even having to justify it, tell us if you want a photo of what you posted and maybe we'l not be busy enough to give it to ya".

Its pretty much whats happening here


Tell me why you took down my painting and give me time to remove it myself and fix wathever you wish so i can publish it again later.


But no, Matthew reported me instead and told everyone im somehow obssesed eith hitler in hopes i got a warning or a ban, if that wasnt his goal, he would have told me what was wrong instead of POSTING ON THE RULE VIOLATION THREAD.
 
It's not a painting. It's a string of words that can be reproduced instantly and can be provided to you by any admin granted that you just ask. So no. It's not what's happening.

Matt was joking about the Hitler thing. Which is why it was crossed out on his post.
 
@Rapid

No, it is more like someone taking down the painting and setting it down. When you ask for it back the guy gives it back to you, undamaged, but tells you it will need some improvements before it can be displayed in their establishment.
 
Police is kinda an overstatement.

All you'd have gotten was a light warning referring you to our rules on crossovers and alternate canons, and a suggestion to give controversial topics such as the Hitler page more time.
 
@Rapid I had my profiles deleted before as well. All you have to do is ask the staff for help and and look at the standard format pages.
 
@Rapid

This isn't an isolated incident, Rapid. We didn't just report you instantly, we removed them multiple times and told you certain profiles weren't in working order. If you want to post them, it is your responsibility to inquire what needs to be changed on it to put it back up.

Not to mention your behavior is questionable at best. You've already been warned by Kaltias, yet you sarcastically reply that you "forgive him". There wasn't anything to forgive him for since he did nothing wrong. This is getting ridiculous and you can't eternally play the victim. Own up, shape up, or we'll be forced to take action.
 
@Rapid

I have to agree with the others. No offense, but please calm down. While it's your right to be mad, you don't need to say what you need to in an aggressive manner. We can be civilized.

You've already been reported here in violation threads over 10 times. Normally, much more than average would probably be banned for much less number of issues. For your own sake, don't add more fuel to the fire.
 
@Matthew

Feel free to give him a strict warning on his message wall.

If he continues to cause trouble that gets him reported again, we might have to give him a temporary block.
 
Fine, i´ll do my best not to cause more trouble.

But can we just take a minute and see that Matthew here reported me without any notification of that fact nor has posted the reason why he deleted my profile on the Profile Deletion Thread?

He might be an admin, but he shouldnt get a free pass from obvious abuses of power.
 
"But can we just take a minute and see that Matthew here reported me without any notification of that fact nor has posted the reason why he deleted my profile on the Profile Deletion Thread?"

Neither of these were abuses of power. Both are common practices, regardless of whether or not they shouldn't be, with us discussing notifying the subjects of reports right now and we'll likely be discussing the second subject soon.
 
We do not have a rule about notifying people yet, and deleting a poor quality or inappropriate profile is not an abuse of power.
 
@Rapid

We are addressing a likely new rule that will require all reporters to inform the reportee about the report.

Before now this wasn't against the rules and was not an abuse of power.
 
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