Rocky (Verse) Upgrade

[Silvervigilant]

I was re-watching the Rocky series and i notice that every Heavyweight in the Rocky universe should be 9-B. Right now only Rocky, Drago, Adonis and Viktor are, But i think Apollo and any other Heavyweight fighter should also be 9-B, the reason being that in Rocky 4 it said that the normal Heavyweight has the average punching power of 700 PSI which is more than the force required to crush skulls, with skulls requiring 520 psi. So a normal Heavyweight in Rocky's universe is much stronger than real heavyweights, and let's not forget that even though Apollo died in his fight against Drago, he still was able to tank alot of his punches, if Apollo was 9-C, Drago should have being able to one shot him.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This looks good a glance

Approval in first 3 minutes!

 

[Silvervigilant]

This looks good a glance

Approval in first 3 minutes!

Thanks

 

[KLOL506]

IIRC Ugarik posted a downgrade of the 2045 psi calc here based on Verivici's version of the normal force * distance formula which knocks down the value to 4120 J, but IIRC, Gwynbleidd also noted some issues with Verivici's version, that for that calc to be valid we'd also need to know the exact amount of force that Ivan's muscles produce, which we don't have and is prolly not possible to calc based on what we're given in the movie itself.

Also crushing skulls are prolly gonna be downgraded to somewhere below 9-B IIRC.

 

[Silvervigilant]

IIRC Ugarik posted a downgrade of the 2045 psi calc here based on Verivici's version of the normal force * distance formula which knocks down the value to 4120 J, but IIRC, Gwynbleidd also noted some issues with Verivici's version, that for that calc to be valid we'd also need to know the exact amount of force that Ivan's muscles produce, which we don't have and is prolly not possible to calc based on what we're given in the movie itself.

But isn't 2045 psi more than enough to destroy human skulls ?

 

[Silvervigilant]

Also crushing skulls are prolly gonna be downgraded to somewhere below 9-B IIRC.

Why ?

 

[KLOL506]

Why ?

Something something "skull not a full solid piece of bone".

 

[Silvervigilant]

Something something "skull not a full solid piece of bone".

Going by this logic alot of characters will be downgraded

 

[DaReaperMan]

Going by this logic alot of characters will be downgraded

Including like 99% of the Fnaf cast

 

[Silvervigilant]

Including like 99% of the Fnaf cast

IKR

 

[Cropfist]

Animatronics only bit off part of a skull, unless the incoherent lore retconned that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Animatronics only bit off part of a skull, unless the incoherent lore retconned that.

Fredbear crushed a child's entire head in his mouth, that is what they scale to.

 

[Silvervigilant]

I mean, for me destroy a skull should never be 9-C

 

[KLOL506]

Fredbear crushed a child's entire head in his mouth, that is what they scale to.

An adult's skull is vastly larger than a child's.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, for me destroy a skull should never be 9-C

It's prolly gonna be downgraded to high-end 9-C or baseline 9-B considering no human on Earth even has the capability to crush skulls with either stomps or punches, being only able to do so with melee weapons like baseball bats (though this one takes multiple swings to actually get anywhere) and sledgehammers. At best it will prolly scale to actual shotguns or high-end sniper calibers like .50 BMG (Which can effortlessly reduce skulls to dust).

 

[KLOL506]

Going by this logic alot of characters will be downgraded

Most of those characters have tons of other 9-B feats so I doubt it. It only applies to bone skulls anyway, not metal skulls or the like

 

[Silvervigilant]

At best it will prolly scale to actual shotguns or high-end sniper calibers like .50 BMG

A Shotgun will be downgraded too or will stay at 9-B ?

 

[KLOL506]

A Shotgun will be downgraded too or will stay at 9-B ?

Uh, no, a shotgun's energy yield will remain the same as it is. We're not changing firearm yields, only skull-crushing yields.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think KLOL makes sense here.

 

[KLOL506]

I think KLOL makes sense here.

Anyway, I think Ivan's punching calc is simply too complicated to merely use the force times distance formula due to the other reasons that Gwynbleidd noted, thus I am forced to say that it is probably incalculable, partly due to the fact that the punch was measured in force, which, if prior history has anything to say about, sadly cannot be translated into joules of energy. Basically trying to convert force to joules of energy is borderline insanity.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Uh, no, a shotgun's wield will remain the same as it is. We're not changing firearm yields, only skull-crushing yields.

Understood, but i don't think Drago is only street level, since trained fighters in real life are said to only strike within the range of 194 to 336 PSI at best and before someone says that elite boxers like Mike Tyson or some hard punchers fighters in MMA can punch at 1,800 psi, like some sites claims, No Mike Tyson's punches never have been measured, but it said that they did measure those of his rival Frank Bruno, who was estimated to land 1,420 POUNDS OF FORCE which is different from PSI, the sites that i mentioned probably mistaked pounds of force for psi, here you can see how real boxers compare to Drago in terms of punching power, according to the same site (STRAIGHT DOPE) "If a punch thrown by Rocky IV villain Ivan Drago is supposed to measure 2,150 psi and his glove’s impact area is something like four square inches, he’d be exerting a force of 8,600 pounds, or more than four tons."

I don't think anyone in real life (Including Peak Humans) has the punching power of Ivan Drago.

So i still think Drago and other Rocky fighters should remain 9-B.

 

[KLOL506]

Understood, but i don't think Drago is only street level, since trained fighters in real life are said to only strike within the range of 194 to 336 PSI at best and before someone says that elite boxers like Mike Tyson or some hard punchers fighters in MMA can punch at 1,800 psi, like some sites claims, No Mike Tyson's punches never have been measured, but it said that they did measure those of his rival Frank Bruno, who was estimated to land 1,420 POUNDS OF FORCE which is different from PSI, the sites that i mentioned probably mistaked pounds of force for psi, here you can see how real boxers compare to Drago in terms of punching power, according to the same site (STRAIGHT DOPE) "If a punch thrown by Rocky IV villain Ivan Drago is supposed to measure 2,150 psi and his glove’s impact area is something like four square inches, he’d be exerting a force of 8,600 pounds, or more than four tons."

I don't think anyone in real life (Including Peak Humans) has the punching power of Ivan Drago.

So i still think Drago and other Rocky fighters should remain 9-B.

EDIT: NVM you noted down the units being different. Yeah, IRL punches are not at all measured in psi, but rather they are measured in ft-lbs, which we commonly see being used for bullet energy yields and the like.

Still, 8600 ft-lbs is like, 11660.03 J, which is still not 9-B. But yeah, it's still well beyond anything the basic human hands can muster.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Ok then.

 

[Armorchompy]

9-C includes superhumans too, y'know? Isn't the highest recorded punch 1/5 of baseline 9-B or something?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The highest record for a punch is like Street level+

 

[Silvervigilant]

Right but i don't think anyone has a four ton punch

 

[KLOL506]

The highest record for a punch is like Street level+

Nah, no way, Street level+ starts at like, 7650 J. Frank Bruno's 1420 ft-lb punch doesn't even come close to that, it's like, 1925 J at max.

 

[Qawsedf234]

EDIT: NVM you noted down the units being different. Yeah, IRL punches are not at all measured in psi, but rather they are measured in ft-lbs, which we commonly see being used for bullet energy yields and the like.

PSI to Foot-pounds is 1:144

You would just need to multiply any result by 144 then convert to joules.

 

[KLOL506]

PSI to Foot-pounds is 1:144

You would just need to multiply any result by 144 then convert to joules.

WTF, then I get in excess of 419761 J

You sure you used the right units? AFAIK, pounds per square foot and ft-lbs are quite different.

 

[Armorchompy]

yeah that don't sound right

 

[Qawsedf234]

You sure you used the right units? AFAIK, pounds per square foot and ft-lbs are quite different.

Nah you're right.

Only other option is to convert PSI to Newton meters to joules then lower the result based on the surface area of a boxing glove.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Looks like the Drago's punch feat is quite difficult to calc isn't it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Not difficult just involves multiple conversions to get a proper number.

 

[KLOL506]

Nah you're right.

Only other option is to convert PSI to Newton meters to joules then lower the result based on the surface area of a boxing glove.

IIRC the article said that Ivan's glove would have an impact area of 4 square inches which is like, 0.00258064 m^2. That's less than half the size of an unprotected fist (I calculated my fist's impact area to be 56 cm^2 or 0.0056 m^2, 8 cm width and an additional 7cm height with from the knuckles to the bottom of the thumb).

2150 psi is 14823728.18 newton per m^2, so multiply that with 0.0258064 and you get 38.254 kJ (Wall level).

 

[Armorchompy]

wouldn't that make bruno's punch wall level too

 

[Qawsedf234]

wouldn't that make bruno's punch wall level too

Bruno has the proper energy unit. So we can convert directly into joules.

 

[KLOL506]

wouldn't that make bruno's punch wall level too

Like Qaws said, Bruno's punch was measured correctly, so no.

 

[Silvervigilant]

IIRC the article said that Ivan's glove would have an impact area of 4 square inches which is like, 0.00258064 m^2. That's less than half the size of an unprotected fist (I calculated my fist's impact area to be 56 cm^2 or 0.0056 m^2, 8 cm width and an additional 7cm height with from the knuckles to the bottom of the thumb).

2150 psi is 14823728.18 newton per m^2, so multiply that with 0.0258064 and you get 38.254 kJ (Wall level).

Well seems fine to me, you should make a blog about it, if you want of course

 

[KLOL506]

Well seems fine to me, you should make a blog about it, if you want of course

IDK, I'm more inclined to put my faith on the 8600 ft-lb statement from the two articles.

Honestly tho, I think DontTalkDT is more up to this task. He was the first guy to properly evaluate the calc. Maybe we could ask him to re-do it again?

 

[Silvervigilant]

IDK, I'm more inclined to put my faith on the 8600 ft-lb statement from the two articles.

But as you said the problem with the straight dope article is that they say that Drago's glove would have an impact area of 4 square inches which as you said it's less than half the size of an unprotected fist and that's not very plausible, so i think your calc is more solid.

Honestly tho, I think DontTalkDT is more up to this task. He was the first guy to properly evaluate the calc. Maybe we could ask him to re-do it again?

That would be a good idea too.