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Rocky and Creed: Small Additions

RandomGuy2345 said:
I think that's one of the cases of outliers in the real world.

Yes. Outliers exist in the real world.

By this logic, should we give some humans Type 2 Immortality because they were able to survive as a head?
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Pretty sure Type 2 is for people that actually survive and continue to retain some decent fraction of their functionality in spite of imminently fatal injury, not people who take a few seconds to realize their card is punched and then croak. Plus, it's not an outlier for a brain to retain activity after a clean decapitation, maintaining brain activity, conscious or otherwise, after heart death is a feature, not a bug. And yes, I'm well aware that outliers exist irl, the concept basically comes from statistical arithmetic. The statistical outlier isn't the survival, it's the person not immediately going unconscious due to shock. But unlike in vs debates, outliers irl are still valid statistical occurrences as long as there are not factors that tamper with the data to the extent of making it unusable. They're not impossibilities that occur anyway due to the author being goofy, they're just data that differ from the trend.
 
SheevShezarrine said:
deliberately hammering away at Felix Chavez's shoulder
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He was just taking advantage of Chavez's already injuried shoulder from their sparring iirc (Similar to what Johnny did to Daniel's leg in the 1st Karate Kid movie.) or He just kept pummeling Chavez's shoulder to increase damage and pain (Like some MMA fighter that keeps leg kicking his opponent until he can't take it no more.) i don't think it's necessarily Pressure Points.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
I'm still with Armor here.

It's a combination of Stamina + Supernatural Willpower.
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I unfortunately think it's just stamina in this case, don't get me wrong, Adonis have a superb willpower but i do not see any "supernatual" aspect in his showings. Rocky overcoming a neurological condition that left heavily incapacitaded through sheer will on the other hand...
 
I think Adonis most certainly has Supernatural Willpower. If we look at Creed 2 I think that the training he underwent to fight Viktor can be used as evidence for Supernatural Willpower.
 
azontr said:
I think Adonis most certainly has Supernatural Willpower. If we look at Creed 2 I think that the training he underwent to fight Viktor can be used as evidence for Supernatural Willpower.
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What kind of training did he go through?

Silvervigilant said:
I unfortunately think it's just stamina in this case, don't get me wrong, Adonis have a superb willpower but i do not see any "supernatual" aspect in his showings. Rocky overcoming a neurological condition that left heavily incapacitaded through sheer will on the other hand...
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We can still index it and just label it as "Immense/Strong Willpower" instead of just flat out "Supernatural Willpower".
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
What kind of training did he go through?
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He trained in the desert with Rocky basically, getting the ever-living shit beat out of him day in day out; Rocky literally slammed a giant solid exercise ball into his stomach everyday which made him puke out blood, and he had to take literally ice-cold baths to ease the pain of his training, are the most impressive feats.
 
azontr said:
He trained in the desert with Rocky basically, getting the ever-living shit beat out of him day in day out; Rocky literally slammed a giant solid exercise ball into his stomach everyday which made him puke out blood, and he had to take literally ice-cold baths to ease the pain of his training, are the most impressive feats.
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I think that's just enough to qualify.
 
azontr said:
He trained in the desert with Rocky basically, getting the ever-living shit beat out of him day in day out; Rocky literally slammed a giant solid exercise ball into his stomach everyday which made him puke out blood, and he had to take literally ice-cold baths to ease the pain of his training, are the most impressive feats.
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Again all very impressive, just not really supernatural.
 
azontr said:
I think Adonis most certainly has Supernatural Willpower. If we look at Creed 2 I think that the training he underwent to fight Viktor can be used as evidence for Supernatural Willpower.
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Honestly true, dude collapsed from exhaustion in the middle of a desert and then kept going like nothing happened a few seconds later. Add that to him snapping awake from a severe knockout with extremely little mental fog compared to what one would experience irl, and that makes twice that he's taken mere seconds to sleep off shit that warranted immediate medical intervention
 
azontr said:
What exactly do we really qualify as a "supernatural" willpower, though? No average Joe could really pull off what Adonis did.
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The "standards" for Supernatural Willpower are so vague.

There are so many things imo that qualify, but at the same time, there are mfs who watch too much anime and think that should be the standard for Supernatural Willpower.

Imho, I think we should still index those feats of Willpower, but just label it as "Immense/Strong Willpower".

The whole point is to prove that "Yeah, this guy doesn't quite fall into Supernatural territories, but he still has one hell of a strong will."
 
azontr said:
What exactly do we really qualify as a "supernatural" willpower, though?
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Supernatural Willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Although some characters can be considered to have a great will to achieve their goals or give their all in a fight, characters that have a willpower on this level can go vastly beyond what should logically be possible for them, with more extreme cases being able to oppose natural phenomena.
Taken from the wiki, but i do believe the Supernatural willpower page could be have a more objective definition tho
azontr said:
No average Joe could really pull off what Adonis did.
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No doubt about that.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
The "standards" for Supernatural Willpower are so vague.

There are so many things imo that qualify, but at the same time, there are mfs who watch too much anime and think that should be the standard for Supernatural Willpower.

Imho, I think we should still index those feats of Willpower, but just label it as "Immense/Strong Willpower".

The whole point is to prove that "Yeah, this guy doesn't quite fall into Supernatural territories, but he still has one hell of a strong will."
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Couldn't have said it better!
 
Silvervigilant said:
Supernatural Willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Although some characters can be considered to have a great will to achieve their goals or give their all in a fight, characters that have a willpower on this level can go vastly beyond what should logically be possible for them, with more extreme cases being able to oppose natural phenomena.
Taken from the wiki, but i do believe the Supernatural willpower page could be have a more objective definition tho
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Then I see no real reason why Adonis should be unable to qualify for it? Logically, when you collapse in the middle of the desert directly onto scalding asphalt, you wouldn't be able to get up and run even faster as if nothing had happened. Like a human just biologically couldn't do this IRL without hella adrenaline or prior training.
 
azontr said:
Then I see no real reason why Adonis should be unable to qualify for it? Logically, when you collapse in the middle of the desert directly onto scalding asphalt, you wouldn't be able to get up and run even faster as if nothing had happened. Like a human just biologically couldn't do this IRL without hella adrenaline or prior training.
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This is a valid argument, though.

I guess I'll remain neutral for now.
 
Like, I don't think "Supernatural" Willpower has to be some anime nonsense where people lose 99% of their organs and still fight or some shit. It's just having high willpower and being able to exceed your normal biological (or any other) limits via said willpower.

Adonis has done this like a billion times already.
 
Silvervigilant said:
Supernatural Willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Although some characters can be considered to have a great will to achieve their goals or give their all in a fight, characters that have a willpower on this level can go vastly beyond what should logically be possible for them, with more extreme cases being able to oppose natural phenomena.
Taken from the wiki, but i do believe the Supernatural willpower page could be have a more objective definition tho
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Immediately bouncing back from heat illness without even a water bottle on hand and jumping back up from a knockout that honestly the ref should've immediately ended the fight on are definitely opposing natural phenomena, especially given that he's immediately back to giving it almost 100% (completing his run without health complications after fainting from heat and exhaustion, outlasting Conlan and nearly knocking him out after having his lights shut off)
 
azontr said:
when you collapse in the middle of the desert directly onto scalding asphalt, you wouldn't be able to get up and run even faster as if nothing had happened
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Technically speaking that's not how it happened we only see Creed falling onto the scalding asphalt, then he lies there for a seemingly small but unknown amount of time (Which a for a guy with his level of stamina and will, he could probably recover some of his stamina) and then we only see him getting up and the scene ends. The scene in which runs faster could probably be in another day since he has no shirt in this scene. And i still don't see anything supernatural, only a very impressive showing of stamina, recovery, and determination.
 
Silvervigilant said:
Technically speaking that's not how it happened we only see Creed falling onto the scalding asphalt, then he lies there for a seemingly small but unknown amount of time (Which a for a guy with his level of stamina and will, he could probably recover some of his stamina) and then we only see him getting up and the scene ends. The scene in which runs faster could probably be in another day since he has no shirt in this scene. And i still don't see anything supernatural, only a very impressive showing of stamina, recovery, and determination.
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I'm aware of how the scene happened, but, still, it really just depends on what one considers to be supernatural.
 
Frankly him being well enough after collapsing in the desert to not need to check into even an urgent care, and moreover complete his training for the day and come back the following day(s) in considerably better condition is bordering on supernatural
 
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SheevShezarrine said:
Frankly him being well enough after collapsing in the desert to not need to check into even an urgent care, and moreover complete his training for the day and come back the following day(s) in considerably condition is bordering on supernatural
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He prolly should've had hella burns as well from falling directly onto smoldering asphalt lol.
 
azontr said:
Okay so if his fests are better than what's natural then you agree that he's doing something... supernatural?
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Not necessarily, remember characters that have a willpower on this level can go vastly beyond what should logically be possible for them, i mean if we give supernatual willpower to any character whose determination feats are better than what's natural, then every protagonist of an action film, comic, manga, games, books and nearly half of fiction basically, should have it, since they are able to get up after receiving far more damage than normal human is able to resist. So we should have more strict standards.
 
Silvervigilant said:
i mean if we give supernatual willpower to any character whose determination feats are better than what's natural, then every protagonist of an action film, comic, manga, games, books and nearly half of fiction basically, should have it, since they are able to get up after receiving far more damage than normal human is able to resist. So we should have more strict standards.
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Disagree.

If a protagonist of a series demonstrates willpower far beyond what's possible for a normal human, then they should have Supernatural Willpower. No if, ands, or buts.
 
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