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Rock Lee vs All Might (12-0-0) Grace

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@elixir you never answered at what range point he uses his air manip, given that this is sba wouldnt they start at something like maybe 5 or 6 km? Would he even use it at point?
 
Yeah, but i'm now questioning the votes.

Lee's wincons are:

  • Bigger AP (But there isn't much difference)
  • Outskill
  • Versatility
  • Gate amps
  • Wind manipulation (Daytime Tiger)
  • Lee can dodge All Might's range for his Air Manipulation plus Speed Equalized prevents that.
All Might's counters:

  • Lee's Ap and outskill won't matter if he can't get close to All Might's passive Air Manipulation
  • Lee's versatility, Fire Manipulation and surface walking doesn't do much against All Might's passive Air Manipulation.
  • Gate amps can also be countered by All Might's amp he gets to in order to use his passive Air Manipulation.
  • Lee has to concentrate and focus on using his Wind manipulation while All Might can use his Air Manipulation passively and proactively with greater range than Lee's Wind Manipulation.
 
CaptainFinnigan said:
@elixir you never answered at what range point he uses his air manip, given that this is sba wouldnt they start at something like maybe 5 or 6 km? Would he even use it at point?
Click to expand...
SBA All Might isn't above killing and his range reaches the clouds. Young All Might has shown to use his Air Manipulation when needed and Lee would require All Might to go all out.
 
CaptainFinnigan said:
@elixir you never answered at what range point he uses his air manip, given that this is sba wouldnt they start at something like maybe 5 or 6 km? Would he even use it at point?
Click to expand...
He used it to actively attack people when he was a couple hundred meters away but like I said he also generates it with his serious movements so let's say he throws a punch and Lee dodges he'd still tag him with it
 
This is All Might's range, not vertical like the clouds when he punches up but also horizontal, when he punches down:

34DFFE14-E11E-4752-9F76-C31465333824
 
I'd say Lee's class G lifting strength should let lee stay on the ground and not just get yeeted into oblivion from All Mights air manip.
 
All Might's lifting strength is also G, so I don't know how Air Manipulation works in this situation. Does that mean Lee just doesn't move, not getting closer or further away?
 
Why is Air Manipulation such a big deal? All Might countering someone far faster and skilled than him is laughable.

What's the source of this passive Air Manipulation? A statement contradicted by the fights where he went all out?
 
The Calaca said:
Why is Air Manipulation such a big deal? All Might countering someone far faster and skilled than him is laughable.

What's the source of this passive Air Manipulation? A statement contradicted by the fights where he went all out?
Click to expand...
2FEE76F9-2A23-4C8B-AA46-2AEDC3C703FC
 
The Calaca said:
Why is Air Manipulation such a big deal? All Might countering someone far faster and skilled than him is laughable.

What's the source of this passive Air Manipulation? A statement contradicted by the fights where he went all out?
Click to expand...
 
A statement made after All Might fought at full power twice.

First battle the shockwaves didn't even push 8-C students nowhere near as strong as an AM's finger.

And his battle against AFO didn't have any Effect that I remember of.
 
@The Calaca Oh, when did Weaken All Might go all out in peak physical health?

  • Was it the time with the Sludge villain and All Might already used up his power and had to be careful not to hurt Young Deku and Bakugo?
  • Was it during the time against USJ Nomu and All Might already exhausted his 3 hours and was running on fumes with the students, Deku, Bakugo, Shoto and Kirashima near by?
  • Was it the time when All Might was trying to save Bakugo and was stated he couldn't go all out against All for One to not hurt Bakugo?
  • Or was it with little flame All Might unleashed all his power in the United States of Smash?
When did Weaken All Might go all out when he wasn't under the wire?
 
  • The shockwave generated against Sludge villain happened with a direct punch.
  • Instance where he went further beyond his full power. When the shockwaves couldn't send children flying hundreds of meters even if they got pushed.
  • Didn't mention this, dude.
  • During all the fight, actually.
Not to mention that implying Air Manipulation is some kind of hax that works on everyone regardless of speed and Lifting Strength is laughable.

This is Weakened All Might, who can't do that at all. Or at least can't do it in the way you imply.
 
> The shockwave generated against Sludge villain happened with a direct punch.

Yep, it was a focused upward punch, not All Might using 100% all over his body to generate windstorms. Not that he could, as All Might vs AFO showed All Might having trouble generating OFA all over his body passed his time limit. Though, that fight had All Might an even harder time accessing his powers than before.

> Instance where he went further beyond his full power. When the shockwaves couldn't send children flying hundreds of meters even if they got pushed.

Um, All Might would be terrible at controlling his power if he gave off enough shock waves that would sending beginning first year students off flying. But it's been stated multiple times All Might can naturally control his power out put.

> During all the fight, actually.

Yeah, One Punch downward, coming from a single arm from a dying-powered All Might. Made a whirlwind with a single swing.

> Not to mention that implying Air Manipulation is some kind of hax that works on everyone regardless of speed and Lifting Strength is laughable.

I don't know why speed matter with Speed Equalized. It's lifting strength that matters here, which All Might and Rock Lee are in the same class. Saying the Air Manipulation won't get in Lee's way of fighting, which is Lee jumping around the battle field, is not a reasonable argument.

> This is Weakened All Might, who can't do that at all. Or at least can't do it in the way you imply.

It's stated in the panel that at 100%, All Might could create Windstorms with every move he makes, which would make the windstorms passive in nature. Weaken All Might's fights always had Weaken All Might at a further disadvantage, so the panels above don't contradict his fights.
 
Except that he were at 100% and beyond during his USJ fight and I don't see any windstorm.

Speed amps.

Lee being on the class makes him able to resist the pushing like it's nothing. I don't see why it's a big deal. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Lee's LS is higher than AM's.
 
Nothing states minute-left All Might was at 100% and further Beyond statement has as much credibility as Deku saying 1 million percent. Horikoshi states words like that are self motivators.

Speed amps would be given to All Might too if the statement All Might wasn't at 100% all the time to prevent creating windstorms to hurt the surrounding public. Like if he traveled to where AFO was. Besides, anything AFO states about All Might's Weaken state lost its credibility when he misunderstood how to create the USJ Nomu to kill All Might.

Lee still jumps off the ground when he fight. I don't understand how lifting strength factors in when his feet is off the ground.
 
If you dismiss Deku as a reliable source then I can say the same for the passive windstorm shit which hasn't been proven ever.

What? No. He has no speed amps. His top speed is equalized with Lee's natural top speed, with the difference that Lee has a method of actually increasing it. You can't say "huh, speed is equalized at AM's random percentage of his top speed so he can become x times faster when going all out".

>Lee jumps

>All Might jumps towards him

>Lee gets reflected once

Lee: A Fuuton user. Better move Smart.

>Lee doesn't jump or just grabs All Might with his bandages so he doesn't get yeeted by the pressure again

You're implying Lee is a moron fighting.

Another scenario:

>Lee gets yeeted

Lee: I can't get close like this. Gates Released!

>Proceeds to blitz All Might before he can flex
 
> If you dismiss Deku as a reliable source then I can say the same for the passive windstorm shit which hasn't been proven ever.

I didn't dismiss Deku as a reliable source, I just said 1 Million Precent was stated as motivator. Also, Deku creates his wind manipulation based on the premise of All Might is using his Air Manipulation passively at 100% and All Might supports this premise by encouraging Deku to go that way in his training.
 
Deku's Air Manipulation comes from the same as punching.

None of that debunks the rest of the arguments. All Might can't yeet Lee nor tag him with his speed advantage.
 
> Deku's Air Manipulation comes from the same as punching.

Yeah, movement.

If Lee doesn't jump anymore, what is his fighting style? The argument before was that Lee outskills All Might but Lee's superior skills came from jumping, lifting his legs off the ground.

> You're implying Lee is a moron fighting.

I never said that. But if you believe I said that, you must think All Might's fighting is poor. I'm just stating Lee's disadvantage.
 
Notice how that shockwave is weaker than United States of Smash? Unless its suggesting United States of Smash is an amp. Which its not.
 
All Might isn't battle Smart at all. If his opponent has a slight advantage he thinks on punching faster and stronger to win.

That's stupid even for DBZ levels.

>Lee's superior skill comes from jumping

IMG-20191012-WA0026
Wouldn't be because Lee has martial arts knowledge and knows how to fight instead of brawl everything on his path?

What's Lee's disadvantage here? All Might's Air Manipulation? The thing that wouldn't work on someone with similar LS than him? The thing that wouldn't even happen because Lee can blitz him before he flexes?
 
Those specs in the bottom right are Class 1-A (IIRC)


Edit: I haven't watched these series much-at-all yet, so I'll take that L.
 
Ok, even if Rock Lee wins this, as proper vs forum, we need to establish what exactly Rock Lee wins with.

  • Lifting Strength don't matter when Lee's martial art require him to jump.
  • Superior Martial Arts require Lee to jump.
  • Jumping gets Lee blown away.
 
I'll list Lee's advantages:

  • Superior stamina. Only Gate Opened Lee would close the stamina gap.
  • Superior martial arts. Not every attack requires to jump. Have you seen Lee jumping to throw every single punch?
  • Speed amps.
  • Similar Lifting Strength so he doesn't get yeeted.
  • A 'weapon' to help his fighting style. If he grabs All Might with them, he wouldn't get away.
  • AP amps to close the non-existent AP advantage All Might has.
 
Why do his martial arts require him to jump? He strqaight up outskills without needed to jump in the air. And like Calaca said he straight up blitzes when he opens the gates. As for how quickly he goes for it. He will probably go for it rather early considering he used the gates pretty early on in his fight with gaara.
 
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