Riordanverse Norse Gods 2-C Upgrade

[The_Fiend888]

A little late, but still I have managed to create the thread by which I will upgrade Norse pantheon to the Low Multiversal.
Gods almost destroyed Nine Worlds at war.

Gunilla looked like she wanted to argue, but she let it drop. ‘Whatever the case, the gods are divided into two tribes. The Aesir are mostly gods of war: Odin, Thor, Tyr and the rest. The Vanir are more like the gods of nature: Frey, Freya, their father, Njord. That’s an oversimplification, but anyway – long ago, the two tribes had a war. They almost destroyed the Nine Worlds. They finally settled their differences. They intermarried. They joined forces against the giants. But still they’re different clans.

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 21-
Nine Worlds are nine separate layers of reality.

T.J. pushed his empty plate away. ‘Magnus, I don’t know if it helps, but the Nine Worlds aren’t really separate planets. They’re more like … different dimensions, different layers of reality, all connected by the World Tree.’

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 18-

Behind Surt, Jack slashed the air, ripping the fabric between the worlds. A zigzag of fire burned on the ridge. My ears popped. As if someone had shot out of the window in an aeroplane’s pressurized cabin, Surt and the other fire giants were sucked screaming into the rift, which closed behind them.

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 66-
İf Surt take Sumarbrandr, the Nine Worlds would tremble.

'Stop Surt,’ I said. ‘Find the sword before he does … assuming he hasn’t got it already.’
‘He doesn’t,’ Mimir said. ‘Believe me, an event like that would make the Nine Worlds tremble. I’d taste fear in the waters of Yggdrasil.’

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 28-
It is said that releasing of Surtr would physically shake Yggdrasill at Poetic Edda. So Mimir most probably meant that the Nine Worlds would physically tremble, not that they would tremble with fear.

Hard is it on earth, with mighty whoredom;
Axe-time, sword-time, shields are sundered,
Wind-time, wolf-time, ere the world falls;
Nor ever shall men each other spare.
Fast move the sons of Mim, and fate
Is heard in the note of the Gjallarhorn;
Loud blows Heimdall, the horn is aloft,
In fear quake all who on Hel-roads are.
Yggdrasil shakes, and shiver on high
The ancient limbs, and the giant is loose;
To the head of Mim does Othin give heed,
But the kinsman of Surt shall slay him soon."

-The Poetic Edda, Völuspa-
Surtr said that he will reduce Nine Worlds to cinders.

The sword will be mine, boy. You cannot change fate. I will reduce your world to cinders!

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 6-

THE WOLF THINKS YOU MAY STILL BE USEFUL. I DO NOT. WHEN WE MEET AGAIN, YOU WILL BURN, SON OF FREY. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS WILL BE MY TINDER. YOU WILL START THE FIRE THAT BURNS THE NINE WORLDS.

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 20-
Odin killed Ymir and created all of Midgard out of his corpse.

True story: Long ago, before anything was anything, frost from Niflheim spread into Ginnungagap and met with fire coming from Muspellheim. No big surprise, the frost melted. Some drops turned into a humungous giant named Ymir. A few generations later, Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve killed Ymir and turned his body parts into Midgard’s oceans, sky, earth, and plants. Ever since then, the giants have hated the gods.

-Hotel Valhalla, What in the Worlds-

HOME WORLD: He is literally every part of Midgard.
APPEARANCE: Before he was killed by Odin and company, was gigantic. Afterward, not so much.
BEST KNOWN FOR: Being sliced and diced by Odin and his brothers, who used his body parts to make Midgard.

-Hotel Valhalla: Guide for the Norse Worlds, Giants, Ymir-
Size of Ymir should be comparable to of Audhumbla, who big enough to really sat around Ginnungagap.

Instead, I’ll tell you about the cow, Audhumbla. She was in the Gap with me. And she was big. (How big was she?) That cow was so big, when she sat around the Gap, she really sat around the Gap!

-Hotel Valhalla, Mythical Beings, Giants, Ymir-
Ginnungagap contains Yggdrasill, which contains Nine Worlds.

On the World Tree, every branch would hold me. The biggest ones were wider than Interstate 93. The smallest were as large as your average redwood. As for Yggdrasil’s trunk, it was so immense it just didn’t compute. Each crevice in its surface seemed to lead to a different world, as if someone had wrapped tree bark around a column of television monitors glowing with a million different movies.
The wind roared, ripping at my new denim jacket. Beyond the tree’s canopy I saw nothing but a hazy white glow. Below was no ground – just more branches crisscrossing the void. The tree had to be rooted somewhere, but I felt woozy and unbalanced – as if Yggdrasil and everything it contained, including my world, was free-floating in primordial mist – the Ginnungagap.

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 37-
Fenris will open his jaw to swallow worlds.

You train in vain. Destiny decrees that come Ragnarok, I will free Fenris Wolf with the blade known as Sumarbrander. The Wolf will devour Odin and then open his jaws to consume these worlds.

-Hotel Valhalla, Mythical Beings, Giants, Surtr-
I'm not sure if we should upgrade Loki to Universal as well. In the myths, it was said that he would kill Heimdall, but in the Hotel Valhalla book it is written that Surtr and other fire giants will defeat Heimdall. So Loki will fight a weakened Heimdall in Ragnarok, if at all. I think we should leave it as it is. We just need to fix one thing: it wasn't his screams, but his writhing in pain that was causing the earthquakes.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Following for now

Been even longer since I read the Norse saga then I did the OG saga lmao

But so far looks good

I could be remembering wrong but wasn't there some universal statement for Mjolnir as well?

 

[Testarossa002]

I was actually planning on a cosmology blog for the verse.
Found some interesting stuffs when browsing through.

I'll give the op an in-depth look soon

 

[KingTempest]

Well shit

 

[Testarossa002]

So this depiction should suffice as evidence for this wiki criteria for separate space-times in case there was any doubt

If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

 

[GraveDigger84]

Some of these seem a little unclear

 

[The_Fiend888]

Can you please say which feats are unclear and why?

 

[The_Fiend888]

I could be remembering wrong but wasn't there some universal statement for Mjolnir as well?

In the Thor's Hammer, it was written that Mjolnir prevented evil forces from destroying the universe.

Jack wobbled back and forth, his version of a shrug. “I suppose getting Mjolnir back is important. The hammer is powerful. Inspires fear in the giants. Smashes entire armies. Keeps the forces of evil from destroying the universe and whatever. Personally, I’ve always found him kind of a bore. He just sits there most of the time. Doesn’t say a word. And don’t ever invite him to karaoke night at the Nuclear Rainbow. Disaster. I completely had to carry both parts on ‘Love Never Felt So Good.’”

-Hammer of Thor, Chapter 5-
But this may just mean that the Giants' invasion of Midgard will trigger Ragnarok. Besides, at that time, most of the giants who would fight against the gods in Ragnarok were either bound or not at full strength. For example, in Summer Sword, it took Surtr a long time to defeat several valkyries who were much weaker than the gods.
Also, in the summary of Thor's Hammer it was said that Mjolnir is the mightiest force in the Nine Worlds.

Thor’s hammer is missing again. The thunder god has a disturbing habit of misplacing his weapon – the mightiest force in the Nine Worlds – but this time the hammer isn’t just lost. It has fallen into enemy hands.

 

[Testarossa002]

MCU is fiction to Riordanverse=Tier 1 Pantheons
I agree with a 2-C Norse cosmology.

For the scaling, Surt seems pretty blatant.
Gods like Odin would eventually scale to him.

And would trickle down to Loki anyways.

What about that snake thingy that coils around the world. I can't remember if they said Midgard in general or just the planet

Edit
Just planet

I remembered why Jormungand was called the World Serpent. Supposedly his body was so long it wrapped around the earth, stretching across the sea floor like a monstrous telecommunication cable. Most of the time he kept his tail in his mouth – hey, I used a pacifier until I was almost two, so I can’t judge – but apparently he’d decided our bull’s-head bait was worth the switch.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Does the world serpent have any high end statements about it's battle with Thor at Ragnarok?

Kinda like GOW where young Thor stalemated young World Serpent in a battle that shook the 9 realms

 

[KLOL506]

Does the world serpent have any high end statements about it's battle with Thor at Ragnarok?

Kinda like GOW where young Thor stalemated young World Serpent in a battle that shook the 9 realms

 

[GraveDigger84]

Surtr said that he will reduce Nine Worlds to cinders.

He says "your world" which seems like a clear referral to just Midgard

 

[SqubiNavrdx]

Looks good I agree.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Does the world serpent have any high end statements about it's battle with Thor at Ragnarok?

Kinda like GOW where young Thor stalemated young World Serpent in a battle that shook the 9 realms

Sadly he doesn't have. This is all I could find about his battle with Thor:

BEST KNOWN FOR: Encircling Midgard and biting its own tail. Prophesied to consume Thor at Ragnarok.

He says "your world" which seems like a clear referral to just Midgard

In the second quote, Surtr says that Magnus and his friends will his tinder for the fire that will burn the Nine Worlds.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Bump

 

[The_Fiend888]

Bump

 

[The_Fiend888]

Bump

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not gonna lie, most of these feel like they aren't talking about full-on universal or multiversal destruction here. They aren't really presented with much context, and I don't exactly remember the series as well as I'd like, but "almost destroyed the nine worlds" and stuff like that to me just feels like they're talking about ravaging what's in them. The SoS Ch20 statement is openly just talking about creating the planet, not the universe, too, and the Fenrir one is pretty clearly doing the same too. Audhumbla's stuff does seem legit, but I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why it scales to Ymir, given you don't really elaborate.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Because the two generally are depicted as being of comparable size in media and paintings.

The same seems to be true of Norse mythology. For example, the image below, taken from Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, shows Bor and Audhjmbla in comparable size. It wouldn't make sense for his sons to be so much shorter than him, especially considering their mother was a giant. And it certainly wouldn't make sense if Ymir, whom they were fighting three-on-one, was so much smaller than them.

Oh, and in the Magnus Chase universe, giants of almost all kinds (Geirrod and his daughters<ref>Sword of Summer, Chapter 55</ref> fire giants<ref>9 from Nine Worlds, Muspellheim, ''I Play Fire'' by Alex Fierro</ref>, mountain giants<ref>Hammer of Thor, Chapter 39</ref> and jotun deities/sea giants<ref>Ship of Dead, Chapter 8</ref>) have been shown to be able to change size, and Odin and his brothers are half-giants. And Aesir were named a giant tribe by Loki. So they may or may not have been the size of Ymir at first, but then shrunk to normal human size.
Ymir also said that he would probably never know know why they didn't kill Audumbla instead, and that he could pay them to kill Audumbla. If there was such a large size difference between the two, it would be a bit ridiculous to even joke about these things.

Seriously, though, Audhumbla the cow kept me alive right up to the moment Odin and his brothers killed me. Why they didn’t go for the cow, I’ll never know. Udderly ridiculous, am I right? (Ha!)
I would have paid Odin to kill that cow, actually. Why? While I was alive, she started in on this big salt lick. Show of hands: Who here has ever listened to an enormous bovine with a really wet tongue lick something for months? No one? Consider yourselves lucky. Lick, lick, lick, lick, day and night, night and day. It sounded as if someone was mixing up a tub of tuna and mayo right by my ear. Drove me nuts until I was like, Kill me now!

This also supports that Odin created not only the Earth, but the entire Midgard Universe. Would a giant that bigger than the universe only have enough flesh to create just a planet? If they only created the Earth, what did they do with the rest of his body? Did they throw it away? What kind of waste is this?
As for Fenris; Surtr said that Fenris will open his jaws to swallow these worlds. İn the series, the word 'worlds' is always used to describe the Nine Worlds, never to refer to the planets. And considering that the title of the book containing the story in question is Hotel Valhalla - A Guide to the Norse Worlds: Your Introduction to Deities, Mythical Beings, & Fantastic Creatures, he was most likely referring to the Nine Worlds. And in order for Fenris to even swallow these nine planets, he must either have teleportation, a power he has never shown before/at Ragnarok or in any myths, or he must directly swallow the entire dimensions.
And as i quoted in the first post, the Nine Worlds are more like seperate layers of reality than planets.

T.J. pushed his empty plate away. ‘Magnus, I don’t know if it helps, but the Nine Worlds aren’t really separate planets. They’re more like … different dimensions, different layers of reality, all connected by the World Tree.’

-Sword of Summer, Chapter 18-

 

[Armorchompy]

Because the two generally are depicted as being of comparable size in media and paintings.

The same seems to be true of Norse mythology. For example, the image below, taken from Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, shows Bor and Audhjmbla in comparable size. It wouldn't make sense for his sons to be so much shorter than him, especially considering their mother was a giant. And it certainly wouldn't make sense if Ymir, whom they were fighting three-on-one, was so much smaller than them.

Stuff that isn't referenced in Riordan's writing doesn't matter here.

Ymir also said that he would probably never know know why they didn't kill Audumbla instead, and that he could pay them to kill Audumbla. If there was such a large size difference between the two, it would be a bit ridiculous to even joke about these things.

At this point it's easier to just say they scale to Audhumbla rather than that they are as big. And if you do that- fair enough.

This also supports that Odin created not only the Earth, but the entire Midgard Universe. Would a giant that bigger than the universe only have enough flesh to create just a planet? If they only created the Earth, what did they do with the rest of his body? Did they throw it away? What kind of waste is this?

We know that several body parts went into the planet alone so no, this one doesn't hold up.

Fair enough on the Fenris stuff, though I'd be conservative when it comes on the scaling with him, given that he's meant to kill Odin and all.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Stuff that isn't referenced in Riordan's writing doesn't matter here

Why? As I said, they were always depicted at the same size in myths, Renaissance paintings, and most current media. Riordan is an author who generally attaches importance to myths and shapes his books accordingly. For example, he tried to make Loki's character just like in the myths. Why should this be different?

At this point it's easier to just say they scale to Audhumbla rather than that they are as big. And if you do that- fair enough.

I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the heights of Ymir and Audumbla. If Audhumbla were much bigger/stronger than Ymir, the answer to the question "Why didn't they kill that stupid cow instead of me?" would be somewhat obvious. Also, Ymir thinks they might can kill Audhumbla. So far, Ymir knows of only one (known) feat that can bring Odin and his brothers to this level: the killing of himself.

 

[Armorchompy]

Why? As I said, they were always depicted at the same size in myths, Renaissance paintings, and most current media. Riordan is an author who generally attaches importance to myths and shapes his books accordingly. For example, he tried to make Loki's character just like in the myths. Why should this be different?

We've got rules about only using stuff that's directly quoted in this sort of situation, even when the entire material is obviously an inspiration. Otherwise every other Lovecraft-themed story would be tier 1.

I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the heights of Ymir and Audumbla. If Audumbla were much bigger/stronger, the answer to the question "Why didn't they kill that stupid cow instead of me?" would be somewhat obvious. Also, Ymir thinks they might can kill Audumbla. So far, Ymir knows of only one (known) feat that can bring Odin and his brothers to this level: the killing of himself.

Yeah that's what I said, scaling people to Audumbla is probably fine, no need for the mental gymnastics to get others to its size.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Yeah that's what I said, scaling people to Audumbla is probably fine, no need for the mental gymnastics to get others to its size.

I guess you are right. But I wasn't trying to scale any of them to a feat from Norse mythology that wasn't in the books. It's just a small matter of height. Anyway, are Surtr's feats acceptable?

 

[Armorchompy]

Nah, too vague.

 

[The_Fiend888]

Can you please eleborate?

 

[Armorchompy]

Well the "tremble" one is clearly metaphoric, since it's about trembling in fear, not literally shaking them. As for reducing the worlds to cinders, honestly that just doesn't feel specific enough.

 

[Alsotime]

bump

 

[Ecronicron]

This thread was looking great why did it have to die??