Rikki is this it? - Choi Yoon-Seok vs Zeno of Elea (0/0/4)

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Charlie Chaplin who lost to love - At least 1 MJ

Some pictureless loser lmao - Rikki get over here I'm not sure

• SBA
• Speed equalized
• Zeno is aware of what Yoon-Seok can do. If this rule is too unfair, can be removed Rule removed
• They fight during the night at some docks

I feel like this is either gonna be really unfair, or it's gonna be really unfair.

 

[Rikimarox2]

It is really unfair.

Not really sure how Yoon-seok is even supposed to deal with the time shittery the dude has.

Spatial manip can probably be bypassed IF Yoon-seok learned Traverse at this key, but iirc I don't recall it being this key, so...

A stomp, probably.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It is really unfair.

Not really sure how Yoon-seok is even supposed to deal with the time shittery the dude has.

Spatial manip can probably be bypassed IF Yoon-seok learned Traverse at this key, but iirc I don't recall it being this key, so...

A stomp, probably.

Wait really? ****. I thought Law manipulation could help. To explain, Zeno pretty much accelerates or decelerates a target to avoid attacks. Though he can also make space infinity. But I don't think he can use them at the same time.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Wait really? ****. I thought Law manipulation could help. To explain, Zeno pretty much accelerates or decelerates a target to avoid attacks. Though he can also make space infinity. But I don't think he can use them at the same time.

Can he keep on accelerating infinitely? Like, can he amp himself or decelerate his opponent to the point they stay frozen for the rest of the fight?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Can he keep on accelerating infinitely? Like, can he amp himself or decelerate his opponent to the point they stay frozen for the rest of the fight?

It's a bit hard to tell who he uses it on specifically but this is an example. It's not like you can't move, but all your attacks are going to miss.

Sasamura was able to intercept the attack since he has something similar but I don't think Yoon-Seok has that. Bright side Zeno does have a weaker AP I think and I can remove the "Knows how he fights" advantage on him

 

[Rikimarox2]

Oh, well, did he ever accelerate or decelerate energy attacks, or aura or shiz?

If not, then Yoon can just... use his aura, put a **** ton of pressure on the dude to the point he can't move, and just throw attacks and shiz.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Oh, well, did he ever accelerate or decelerate energy attacks, or aura or shiz?

If not, then Yoon can just... use his aura, put a **** ton of pressure on the dude to the point he can't move, and just throw attacks and shiz.

Surprisingly not, but his entire thing is basically the Achilles Paradox so I feel like the invisible energy attacks won't hit him.

Is that the fear aura? I feel like it might work maybe... Last time a mental attack (Pretty much makes you feel pain and horror) was performed on the Carbonoids they pretty much just "Lol. Counter."

 

[Rikimarox2]

It isn't a fear aura. His aura is just so strong that even people comparable to him in strength cannot move, feeling as if gravity was multiplied many times.

I also gotta make sure if Yoon-seok has his one technique here that cuts through space. When it was first revealed, they didn't give much info on it, but later on they fully explained it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It isn't a fear aura. His aura is just so strong that even people comparable to him in strength cannot move, feeling as if gravity was multiplied many times.

I also gotta make sure if Yoon-seok has his one technique here that cuts through space. When it was first revealed, they didn't give much info on it, but later on they fully explained it.

Damn. I feel like you can add that on his first key lol since I didn't see it at first. That said if it's something that only paralyzes physical movement, I don't think that can affect Zeno's powers. So this ends up being an actual tie for him dang. Also with unfair ruling Zeno might just keep sending clones at him.

I can wait for that if you want.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I

really

need

to

sleep.

I'm dumb. Idk why but I somehow thought this was his High 8-C version.

Sry for the confusion, but yeah, Yoon doesn't have spatial shit here, no way in hell.

However, if Zeno dude like, has to actively think of dividing the space, then a single, invisible attack energy with his AP reaching 9+ megajoules via buffs should be able to one shot Zeno.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I

really

need

to

sleep.

I'm dumb. Idk why but I somehow thought this was his High 8-C version.

Sry for the confusion, but yeah, Yoon doesn't have spatial shit here, no way in hell.

However, if Zeno dude like, has to actively think of dividing the space, then a single, invisible attack energy with his AP reaching 9+ megajoules via buffs should be able to one shot Zeno.

Lol, I'll let you sleep. I didn't specify the keys anyway but like hell I'll toss anyone at that scary second key.

I did give him knowledge about that. But his go to opening anyway is to literally introduce himself with a practical joke of making the distance between you and him/or a target you want to go to as infinite distance. He can also look like as if he teleported when attacking.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Granting him knowledge will just make him stomp, imo. Since he can just say no to everything Yoon has and insta kill him by crushing his core.

He also doesn't have the Aura thingy here that makes people fall down.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Granting him knowledge will just make him stomp, imo. Since he can just say no to everything Yoon has and insta kill him by crushing his core.

He also doesn't have the Aura thingy here that makes people fall down.

Fair enough I'll remove it. Without it this looks like it might depend on the first move of the other.

 

[Rikimarox2]

If you remove it, then its either an incon, or Yoon-seok wins via one attack. Altho it seems he makes the distance between his opponents infinite, but sometimes likes to talk and shiz, and has to eventually attack.

Also, the whole acceleration and deceleration stuff...

Yoon might actually have a counter for it. By swinging, he can just use his teleportation, and attack through Zeno's head by surprise.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

If you remove it, then its either an incon, or Yoon-seok wins via one attack. Altho it seems he makes the distance between his opponents infinite, but sometimes likes to talk and shiz, and has to eventually attack.

Also, the whole acceleration and deceleration stuff...

Yoon might actually have a counter for it. By swinging, he can just use his teleportation, and attack through Zeno's head by surprise.

Teleport? That's a first key ability?

Yeah I was hoping that his talkative nature would help Yoon-Seok get an insight to negate his time thing, but he still has to deal with space. But the moment Zeno goes for cloning it might become too much for him especially if he feels threatened

 

[Rikimarox2]

Not sure why it isn't on the abilities section, but it is in his techniques section:

Enhanced Speed: Can instantly teleport within 50-meter radius. Wait 600 seconds to reuse.[44]

Also doesn't he accelerate/decelerate attacks, and not his opponent's entire body?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Not sure why it isn't on the abilities section, but it is in his techniques section:

Enhanced Speed: Can instantly teleport within 50-meter radius. Wait 600 seconds to reuse.[44]

Also doesn't he accelerate/decelerate attacks, and not his opponent's entire body?

Probably should add that lol. It's pretty much the whole Achilles and the Hare thing. He can apply it to multiple people though and at a person though. Not just a single attack.

I feel if he teleports behind and attacks Zeno he would have to use the invisible attack to hit him. If he doesn't, I think the ability would just activate on him. And in that case Zeno might just abuse clones since 'he almost died' like what happened when he felt threatened by Sasamura.

 

[Rikimarox2]

It's not passive, right?

Also, Thing is, Yoon-seok teleports his attack extremely close to his opponent. Like, mid-wind up, when he uses his teleportation to slap his opponent, he manages to slap them before they could even react to him.

Not to mention...

Attack speed buff + AP buff that should make him able to one shot Zeno + 30% Dura neg + Teleport should grant a rather easy victory.

If he fails, then he can say goodbye.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It's not passive, right?

Also, Thing is, Yoon-seok teleports his attack extremely close to his opponent. Like, mid-wind up, when he uses his teleportation to slap his opponent, he manages to slap them before they could even react to him.

Not to mention...

Attack speed buff + AP buff that should make him able to one shot Zeno + 30% Dura neg + Teleport should grant a rather easy victory.

If he fails, then he can say goodbye.

It kinda is actually. He has never once let it up against Sasamura. The only time he started getting hit is when Sasamura started pulling up some Sasaki Kojiro (Fate ver) level stuff of slicing through space and time to reach him. Even on their second round his clones were using the same ability against Sasamura and only turned off when he died.

True but speed buffs are kinda inegligible against this weird space time thing. He can definitely oneshot Zeno. But it has to be at the perfect time where Zeno loosens his guard from say when he kills him the first time. Though he would still be cautious on seeing a guy regenerate wounds like nothing.

 

[Rikimarox2]

If its passive then its GG.

The question remains on if it works on energy shiz. Iirc he never used it on invisible, energy stuff, right? Are there anyone in the verse with energy attacks that were thought to be useless against this dude?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

If its passive then its GG.

The question remains on if it works on energy shiz. Iirc he never used it on invisible, energy stuff, right? Are there anyone in the verse with energy attacks that were thought to be useless against this dude?

They had a guy who can essentially mindfuck you to death with music, and a guy named Rinji who can manipulate anything he sees with telekinesis if it's light enough.

Buuuuuut they were all in a rush to get to a boat so they had to leave Sasamura to duel 1v1 melee no items. So I think it might work. At the same time Zeno might just speed amp himself to get away from it though. Since that's basically how he was able to hit 3 people at once.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Well, that's how I see the fight going if it's not passive and doesn't effect invisible shiz:

Yoon appears, Zeno does his space shittery and laughs at his face. Zeno eventually appears while Yoon got mindfucked by the space stuff, so while he's talking and a few meters away, Yoon just activates his buffs (All of which are via thought) and throws a sample attack to test Zeno out, and since its a few meters away, Zeno wouldn't be on guard.

And whoops, Zeno's head gets lopped off because he can't see the attack and is talking, or smth. Along with his AP being 9 megajoules via buffs and just negating 30% of Zeno's dura to the point that any attack Yoon-seok does will be lethal.

And Yoon-seok attacks are lethal as shit and always goes for the weak/vital spots.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Well, that's how I see the fight going if it's not passive and doesn't effect invisible shiz:

Yoon appears, Zeno does his space shittery and laughs at his face. Zeno eventually appears while Yoon got mindfucked by the space stuff, so while he's talking and a few meters away, Yoon just activates his buffs (All of which are via thought) and throws a sample attack to test Zeno out, and since its a few meters away, Zeno wouldn't be on guard.

And whoops, Zeno's head gets lopped off because he can't see the attack and is talking, or smth. Along with his AP being 9 megajoules via buffs and just negating 30% of Zeno's dura to the point that any attack Yoon-seok does will be lethal.

And Yoon-seok attacks are lethal as shit and always goes for the weak/vital spots.

I'd say that's pretty solid with a small thing.

But if Zeno really did just use his time negate on Yoon-Seok like he did with Sasamura then that massive speed buff that would allow him to hit Zeno first would be only slightly faster than his nerfed speed.

I think his best go to is to time the teleport to when he 'dies' to really surprise Zeno.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Forgot to add,

Carbonoids DO NOT have organs in them. You need to destroy their head to kill them or cut it off. I feel like Yoon-Seok will do that but if he goes for internal organs it won't be as effective. Just a minor thing I need to point out. But tbh the entire argument here is more on the invisible attacks and speed amps

 

[Rikimarox2]

I'd say that's pretty solid with a small thing.

But if Zeno really did just use his time negate on Yoon-Seok like he did with Sasamura then that massive speed buff that would allow him to hit Zeno first would be only slightly faster than his nerfed speed.

I think his best go to is to time the teleport to when he 'dies' to really surprise Zeno.

He can either do that, or, like you said, fake his death and yeet Zeno.

Also he actually usually goes for the head(iirc, at least, against one of his opponents I believe he said he usually goes for the head) , and considering it's an energy arc, it would cut down Zeno's pretty easily, if not outright destroy it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

He can either do that, or, like you said, fake his death and yeet Zeno.

Also he actually usually goes for the head, and considering it's an energy arc, it would cut down Zeno's pretty easily, if not outright destroy it.

Yup. Though I think it should work still if it's 'physical' and not something like telekinesis (not the invisible blade) since tbh - Sasamura notes that his ability seems to be similar to stopping time on his surroundings.

There's definitely no question on him headshotting Zeno in that case.

Is this so far the character that's been most challenging to Yoon-Seok? I hope he is lol, cause I'll take that even if it's a lose/win/tie

 

[Rikimarox2]

In his 9B key? Yeah, it's actually is.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Anyways, the only real way Zeno could win is if he immediately goes for cloning, and even then, it will take a while.

Anything else, and Yoon can just insta-kill him via invisible energy.

Obviously, I'm voting Yoon-seok mid-high diff.

I'd honestly take any matches for my boi Yoon.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Anyways, the only real way Zeno could win is if he immediately goes for cloning, and even then, it will take a while.

Anything else, and Yoon can just insta-kill him via invisible energy.

Obviously, I'm voting Yoon-seok mid-high diff.

I'd honestly take any matches for my boi Yoon.

I think with the nature of his ability the only real way for Yoon to win is to do the whole fake his death thing funnily. I think invisible energy would be treated the same the more I think about it. Since the moment he mildly even threatens Zeno the clones are coming out. After that it's just not fair for Yoon tho this really is a high diff battle lol. Imma vote too.

So that's 1/1/0

Lol happy to be of help.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I still don't see why it would, especially if the effect in question has never demonstrated it against intangible, invisible attacks.

Even then, the death thing is probably likely too, since even if he was torn to parts with all of his limbs heavily damaged, he just regenerates and can nuke from there.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I still don't see why it would, especially if the effect in question has never demonstrated it against intangible, invisible attacks.

Even then, the death thing is probably likely too, since even if he was torn to parts with all of his limbs heavily damaged, he just regenerates and can nuke from there.

OH SHIT. I almost forgot. Sasamura literally sliced someone that had the power of intangibility. This ****** over here. Considering their powers are both space time manipulation (That Zeno had to essay about it) I feel like yeah that's gonna work on something like that lol.

Nah that's perfectly fine. I think it's reasonable. That said does he constantly regenerate again and again no matter what? Cause that might jumpstart the clone summon process. In that case it'll become a game of "You better hit the right Zeno" or you're not gonna get another chance

 

[Rikimarox2]

Then it could likely stop him, yeah.

As for the regen, he can either regen in an instant, or wait a bit. In his fight against a bomber, after he was turned to a mush of meat with limbs everywhere, his opponent was calm and happy about defeating him, until he just said lol no and regened.

Honestly, this could go either way now, but I feel like with Zeno's seemingly habit to talk with his opponents, and Yoon-seok just being way more skilled in terms of combat IQ, I think Yoon can get the win with the death + teleport + invisible arc.

Also wait, remind me again, doesn't Zeno have to manually decelerate the attack once he sees it coming?

So, would he even be able to react to someone, mid-swing from a few meters, immediately teleporting to him with an attack speed far greater than Zeno's pre amp?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Actually waittttttt

Doesn't Zeno like to talk about his abilities and their name?

Because if so, Yoon-seok can just use his law manip in like a hundred meter radius, and just go "No one can use [Ability's power]"

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Then it could likely stop him, yeah.

As for the regen, he can either regen in an instant, or wait a bit. In his fight against a bomber, after he was turned to a mush of meat with limbs everywhere, his opponent was calm and happy about defeating him, until he just said lol no and regened.

Honestly, this could go either way now, but I feel like with Zeno's seemingly habit to talk with his opponents, and Yoon-seok just being way more skilled in terms of combat IQ, I think Yoon can get the win with the death + teleport + invisible arc.

Also wait, remind me again, doesn't Zeno have to manually decelerate the attack once he sees it coming?

So, would he even be able to react to someone, mid-swing from a few meters, immediately teleporting to him with an attack speed far greater than Zeno's pre amp?

Gotcha yeah that's important. If he can fake out 'dying' then yeah.

See I thought that-- but then the wording Sasamura says in one of the links I linked above said "It feels like he's stopping time around him" so I think it's AOE based centered around Zeno.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Actually waittttttt

Doesn't Zeno like to talk about his abilities and their name?

Because if so, Yoon-seok can just use his law manip in like a hundred meter radius, and just go "No one can use [Ability's power]"

Likely! He did want to talk and shut down Sasamura, a big factor of why he wanted to fight him was because of how similar their powers were. But yeah if he did expose his power to Yoon-Seok, law manipulation will come to play (finally lol)

That said if he does that and he gets affected, he still has the fallback plan of going Gojo and using infinite distance + clones. Also I'm not sure if he knows any more paradoxes so technically he can make new abilities--- buuuut I don't like that so I'm gonna ignore that and only use the feats he did lol.

Edit - To add on, I will say the fact that the time deceleration thing is something he uses on an aura is what makes teleport sadly fail

 

[Rikimarox2]

He can always just change between the laws at will, one for the infinite distance when Zeno uses it, and changes to the time shittery when Zeno tries to use it.

There's also the Invisibility option that he can just use if he realizes he's out of options.

Said Invisibility, against normal dudes, is Absolute Hiding and won't be found out if he made a lot of noise.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

He can always just change between the laws at will, one for the infinite distance when Zeno uses it, and changes to the time shittery when Zeno tries to use it.

There's also the Invisibility option that he can just use if he realizes he's out of options.

Said Invisibility, against normal dudes, is Absolute Hiding and won't be found out if he made a lot of noise.

Yeah that's gonna be effective. I didn't expect Law Manipulation to work that way. That said if he does that and starts negating the powers, Zeno's definitely gonna go for clones right away. Would be bad since they'd outnumber him

Invisibiliy's good though dang. Can it be cancelled by using Law Manipulation or is that not noticeable at all?

I feel like against a genius, it might not be as effective as absolute hiding but will still be useful. Especially if Zeno just decides the cure to that is to drown the area with himself.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah that's gonna be effective. I didn't expect Law Manipulation to work that way. That said if he does that and starts negating the powers, Zeno's definitely gonna go for clones right away.

That's true. Are the clones as strong as Zeno is?

Invisibiliy's good though dang. Can it be cancelled by using Law Manipulation or is that not noticeable at all?

Nope. It's not noticeable at all. In fact it takes quite a low amount of Mana, so it doesn't even pose a problem for Yoon.

I feel like against a genius, it might not be as effective as absolute hiding but will still be useful. Especially if Zeno just decides the cure to that is to drown the area with himself.

I mean, I don't see why not? Against dudes with a bit of a Magic rank, sure, his Invisibility can't work as efficiently, as he can be found if he made a noise.

But against normal human, with no magic rank in verse, he even doesn't make a sound.

BTW, I assume Zeno's stamina is infinite? Is there like an In-canon statement that states he can just use time to refresh his stamina?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

That's true. Are the clones as strong as Zeno is?

Nope. It's not noticeable at all. In fact it takes quite a low amount of Mana, so it doesn't even pose a problem for Yoon.

I mean, I don't see why not? Against dudes with a bit of a Magic rank, sure, his Invisibility can't work as efficiently, as he can be found if he made a noise.

But against normal human, with no magic rank in verse, he even doesn't make a sound.

BTW, I assume Zeno's stamina is infinite? Is there like an In-canon statement that states he can just use time to refresh his stamina?

Yup, each one is the same. They were each a threat to Sasamura who wouldn't have been threatened by them at all if only Zeno and him can use the space time power.

Dang yeah that's a nasty tricky Yoon-Seok has.

Oh yeah I see it working, just not absolute.

Carbonoids don't really have organs or anything. They're just kinda like androids that keep on doing whatever they want. No existing Carbonoid has ever been pushed to the limit heck even Leo was destroying Japan casually without breaking a sweat. Infinite might not be the right word for it though since that sounds strong lol.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Well, you might be correct. Though, worst case scenario, Yoon just continues to use his Law manip to either turn off the space manip, time manip, or the cloning shiz.

Not to mention, his mind will continue to adapt until eventually finds a way to beat Zeno.

Also Zeno's profile is a bit odd? His AP section says he's street level to god damn country level, while his Tier is simply 9-B. I assume that'll be fixed?