Revision of stats for Non-legendary Pokemon

[LordAizenSama]

but.. but that makes even less sense comparing it to the other speeds stated in the pokedex!!!!!!!!!!!

RIP Arcanine I liked you because the pokedex said you were a legendary.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

but.. but that makes even less sense comparing it to the other speeds stated in the pokedex!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a pokedex entry that was just like "Snorlax is believed to be able to move at four trillion miles per second and shoot laser beams from its navel".

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Okay. It sounds like we should avoid the Pokedex entirely then.

I wouldn't say that. Just to avoid overly vague statements, as there are some statements in the pokedex that are presented as 100% fact.

quite afew of them are next to worthless though.. like a dodrio that runs 40MPH, and a Arcanine that runs 258MPH. there must be better feats then this surely
and some just downright don't make sense aswell. when I think about it, magcargo burns at 18,000F according to the pokedex, yet this happens.

That kind of heat would only amount to multi-City block level according to a featured blog. Something many Pokemon could arguably withstand (and the rest can be explained away by plot).

There are better feats. Gardevoir can create a miniature black hole (kills itself in the process) and Pidgeot can fly at mach Speeds.

The pokedex is usually accurate but I guess it wouldn't hurt to look for outliers.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am very tired, so I don't know if I have the energy to fix the Pokemon profiles. Is somebody else willing to do it?

 

[LordAizenSama]

ok im under the impression we should not use the pokedex at all. just looking at some of these quotes

"It happened one morning - a boy with extrasensory powers awoke in bed transformed into Kadabra."

Haunter: Its tongue is made of gas. If licked, its victim starts shaking constantly until death eventually comes.

so you can actually become a pokemon. and apparently Lick is a OHKO.actually that's not quite right it KILLS.

@themightyregulator I think burning at 18,000F would cause some side affects just by it being on the ground.. within a certain distance of anything..

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread968
I think that legendaries might also warrant revision.

Definitely. Maybe we can figure out how Hoopa is large star level! *Faints*

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I believe a good 30-40% of Pokemon profiles have calcs and speeds backing them up mostly legendaries. I'll try to help

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

ok im under the impression we should not use the pokedex at all. just looking at some of these quotes
"It happened one morning - a boy with extrasensory powers awoke in bed transformed into Kadabra."

Haunter: Its tongue is made of gas. If licked, its victim starts shaking constantly until death eventually comes.

so you can actually become a pokemon. and apparently Lick is a OHKO. and @themightyregulator I think burning at 18,000F would cause some side affects just by it being on the ground.. within a certain distance of anything..

Pokemon doesn't care about consistency since it's primary target audience are kids 5-10 years old. Pokemon writers make up anything on the go, since kids dont pay attention to background stuff

Never seen such inconsistency anywhere, it's worse than fanfiction to be honest

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

@LordAizenSama

Haunter is a ghost type. It's not supposed to make sense. And true. I wouldn't mind if we didn't use the pokedex but the logia against using it in this case is flawed. Megaman X was creating large star level black holes yet the area was largely unaffected. While the integrity of this website should be ensured we should all remember this is fiction.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Faisal I love how their audience is around that age, but have you seen their more disturbing pokedex entrys? it is actually quite funny/Bad

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Faisal I love how their audience is around that age, but have you seen their more disturbing pokedex entrys? it is actually quite funny/Bad

"Each of them carries a mask that used to be its face when it was human. Sometimes they look at it and cry." - Yamask pokedex entry

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

@Faisal I love how their audience is around that age, but have you seen their more disturbing pokedex entrys? it is actually quite funny/Bad

I remember Shedinja's entry, it was creepy as ***.

From Ruby

SHEDINJA's hard body doesn't move - not even a twitch. In fact, its body appears to be merely a hollow shell. It is believed that this POKéMON will steal the spirit of anyone peering into its hollow body from its back.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, then I revert to my viewpoint that we should try to strictly stick to specific calculated feats for each Pokemon character, and place their statistics at "Unknown" othervise.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I also just remembered cubones pokedex entry..oh god..

as for the pokemon profiles ill try help out with them, but everything that is currently wrong based off the pokemon game stats and the like should go to unknown for the time being right?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Alright. @Antvasima

 

[Antvasima]

@LAS That is correct, yes.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I am amazed how Pokemon anime makers get away with so much contradictions to the pokedex. If they don't care about pokedex entries why bother making them?

And Ant is right, composite pokemon profiles are a mess right now and unknown is the best. Pokemon can't agree on anything with all the different medias

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well there are the cutscenes...

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Who's idea was it to consider stats as legit. Do these people not realize Mewtwo and Hoopa have greater stats than ARCEUS?
[/LIST]
Hell, tyranitar has greater stats than Arceus (no clue if I spelt that right).

The pokedex descriptions are what's to be used. Not base stats....

As much as I hate to say this, pokedex descriptions of certain pokemon don't necessarily mean accurate statements either. Arceus' pokedex description is entirely mythological in nature and does not reflect the actual feats of Arceus in game. The sad reality is Arceus is no more a pokemon god than Mewtwo is, he may have had the power to create the Sinnoh region, sure, I'll believe that, but the universe is a big place, and different pokemon regions have different mythologies based around different mythological pokemon. Taking the actual, measurable feats of Arceus and other pokemon into account is what matters.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Who's idea was it to consider stats as legit. Do these people not realize Mewtwo and Hoopa have greater stats than ARCEUS?
[/LIST]
Hell, tyranitar has greater stats than Arceus (no clue if I spelt that right).

The pokedex descriptions are what's to be used. Not base stats....

As much as I hate to say this, pokedex descriptions of certain pokemon don't necessarily mean accurate statements either. Arceus' pokedex description is entirely mythological in nature and does not reflect the actual feats of Arceus in game. The sad reality is Arceus is no more a pokemon god than Mewtwo is, he may have had the power to create the Sinnoh region, sure, I'll believe that, but the universe is a big place, and different pokemon regions have different mythologies based around different mythological pokemon. Taking the actual, measurable feats of Arceus and other pokemon into account

Word of god states Arceus was recreating the Universe from scratch when he was creating the creation trio for the player in heart gold and silver which is why that trippy moment where scenes that look like they were taken from google were played as clips. I'll have to look for the quote.


Arceus has several feats that place him at even greater than Universal. You don't have to worry about that.

I do see your point though.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Wait so Arceus created the universe now ?....

Which Pokemon myth is legit because I'm fairly certain that Pokemon plantinum said dialga and palkia did.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Word of god states Arceus was recreating the Universe from scratch when he was creating the creation trio for the player in heart gold and silver which is why that trippy moment where scenes that look like they were taken from google were played as clips. I'll have to look for the quote.


Arceus has several feats that place him at even greater than Universal. You don't have to worry about that.

I do see your point though.

Alright, I could also see it as 'starting small and growing to be what it is. I'm just saying it wasn't a robustly created universe, merely a shove. Arceus, therefore, could not, theoretically, destroy everything it created, thus rendering every other pokemon moot. It can, in fact, get its wierd butt handed to it by Mewtwo in a fight.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Word of god states Arceus was recreating the Universe from scratch when he was creating the creation trio for the player in heart gold and silver which is why that trippy moment where scenes that look like they were taken from google were played as clips. I'll have to look for the quote.


Arceus has several feats that place him at even greater than Universal. You don't have to worry about that.

I do see your point though.

Alright, I could also see it as 'starting small and growing to be what it is. I'm just saying it wasn't a robustly created universe, merely a shove. Arceus, therefore, could not, theoretically, destroy everything it created, thus rendering every other pokemon moot. It can, in fact, get its wierd butt handed to it by Mewtwo in a fight.

If he recreated the Universe...then he must have also destroyed the old one in the process -_-

@Chillsvibez

I don't think it was ever made clear but most refer to Arceus as creating the Universe as there are more references of him doing so.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Arceus will win against Mewtwo on vsbattle but he aint beating Mega Mewtwo in any pokemon media lol.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Yeah the Arceus movie also said he created everything but not sure it's legit either

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Arceus will win against Mewtwo on vsbattle but he aint beating Mega Mewtwo in any pokemon media lol.

My Mega Mewtwo's still got this.

@Chillvibez

Well we know for sure that he didn't create the Distortion World. That would not correlate with the main canon cutscenes(the games) but everything else is fair play.

Edit: I've been researching the phenomenon and I've yet to see any official source outlining the process and the soteI gained the information from didn't provide evidence (non-surprisingly). I'll continue searching and if successful will provide evidence that Arceus truly did recreate the Universe in HeartGold and SoulSilver.

 

[Iustitia_Prime]

I believe that, despite having some absurd entries, the PokeDex should be treated as the Primary canon.

Manga as secondary with anime as tertiary. Or treat them all as equally valid but divided. I mean I deal mostly with Transformers pages but I tend to divide stats up by continuity as they can wildly vary.

That said, while some things should be taken with a grain of salt like Kadabra being a child... some entries provide actual stats that should at least be documented, like Pidgeot's mach speed. Some entries can at least help us get a good sense of where they stand, like Blastoise's cannon power.

But base stat totals should not be used. And a lot of pages do. If a stat isn't stated, can't be calced, or there's no room for a reasonable guess then it should be left blank.

 

[Iustitia_Prime]

I also think legendaries that are a part of a trio should be looked at individually and not just as a group. Scaling might not apply to all stats, such as Raikou logically being faster than Entei and Suicune as it is the embodiment of the speed of lightning. Entei might have a higher attack potency than Raikou. Raikou has a thundercloud on its back, so it's reasonable to believe that his maximum output is the total energy of a thunderstorm. A severe thunderstorm can release 10+e15 joules or 239.0057361376673 kilotons of energy. Entei embodies volcanic activity, makes volcanoes erupt when it roars, and the largest recorded eruption was about 800 megatons. I got no guesses for Suicune's stats but it's the embodiment of the North Wind.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Well, I am very tired, so I don't know if I have the energy to fix the Pokemon profiles. Is somebody else willing to do it?

I will be willing to fix some of them. I've been watching episodes of anime series that features my fav. Pokemon. So far, most of the Pokemon are Building Level in terms of feats, though Inferape's Blaze abilitiy is powerful enough to fill the whole stadium with his flames during his clash against Electrivire. Where will that place him?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Town level, most likely. Same as Anime Pikachu . (I don't see a profile for Ash's Pikachu actually, now that I checked. Was it removed?)

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Town level, most likely. Same as Anime Pikachu.

Town level? I'm not sure about that....anyway, I'm about to make the changes now. Is that ok, Ant?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Fair enough. Either way, I am exhausted. Night all.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What is this stuff about the creation trio being > Arceus? Arceus is said in mythology to have "shaped the universe". Arceus created Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina who embody the very fabric of the universe. It's an abridged version, but it's not wrong.

Anyway, there is literally nothing wrong with the creation trio scaling.

Palkia and Dialga created multiple universes (assuming one at a time because logical low end).

Palkia and Dialga have shown the power to destroy and distort said universes.

Giratina is slightly superior to Palkia and Dialga, individually.

Arceus, while not at full power, has shown to be able to pretty easily fend off all three without even really exerting much effort.

There is not part of this scaling that is even remotely difficult to comprehend.

You'll have to excuse if I sound rather peeved. The creation trio and Arceus downplay on the internet is absurd, and it gets tiring explaining this dozens upon dozens of times.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

What is this stuff about the creation trio being > Arceus? Arceus is said in mythology to have "shaped the universe". Arceus created Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina who embody the very fabric of the universe. It's an abridged version, but it's not wrong.
Anyway, there is literally nothing wrong with the creation trio scaling.

Palkia and Dialga created multiple universes (assuming one at a time because logical low end).

Palkia and Dialga have shown the power to destroy and distort said universes.

Giratina is slightly superior to Palkia and Dialga, individually.

Arceus, while not at full power, has shown to be able to pretty easily fend off all three without even really exerting much effort.

There is not part of this scaling that is even remotely difficult to comprehend.

You'll have to excuse if I sound rather peeved. The creation trio and Arceus downplay on the internet is absurd, and it gets tiring explaining this dozens upon dozens of times.

The scaling is clear, of course. It's just the lore we were focusing on. There are two mythological theories: Arceus did so himself with his 1000 arms or he created the embodiments to do so, basically creating the Universe anyway. There was just some confusion on his method of doing. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not a problem. I've just seen "hurr Arceus is featless and continent level" all over the internet one too many times when you could look up numerous videos or sources online and prove that wrong within seconds.

 

[LordXcano]

Not a problem. I've just seen "hurr Arceus is featless and continent level" all over the internet one too many times when you could look up numerous videos or sources online and prove that wrong within seconds.

"show me 1 planet bust feat nd il believ u"

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"show me 1 planet bust feat nd il believ u"

"m8 grudun nvr dstroid a huose so he iz obvsly ruum lvl lel"

 

[LordXcano]

"m8 grudun nvr dstroid a huose so he iz obvsly ruum lvl lel"

"pokedex feats r bs how cn ash hug marcago if sun heat"

 

[Northern_Wind00]

"show me 1 planet bust feat nd il believ u"

"m8 grudun nvr dstroid a huose so he iz obvsly ruum lvl lel"

A lot of what is said about the creation trio is proven in their feats, but Mythology is mythology. I am what one might call a 'localized poketheist'. I believe each region's mythology applies to that region alone

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A lot of what is said about the creation trio is proven in their feats, but Mythology is mythology. I am what one might call a 'localized poketheist'. I believe each region's mythology applies to that region alone

But if we KNOW Arceus created and is superior to the creation trio, and we know the trio created the universe, why is there reason to doubt said mythology?