Revision of Nagakabouros's Tier

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Low 2-C, this seems reasonable.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis 3-B has no support whatsoever. 'Naga is stronger than Sol so she's 3-B' is the exact same as saying 'Goku is 9-B because he's stronger than Mister Satan'.

The analogy is 100% accurate here considering 3-B is INFINITELY smaller than Low 2-C.

 

[Wokistan]

@Weekly I think a more accurate comparison would be DBS base Goku being "At least 4-B, likely 3-A," since there's concrete feats down there. The 9-B thing seems hyperbolic.

Anyways the Low 2-C stays either way. I don't think 3-B is necessary to include, but I also don't think that it's some great injustice to include if need be.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Nothing whatsoever is vague about the Low 2-C stuff, its about as blatant as you can get

Everything is based off extrapolations of vague statements, it's hardly as solid as you might want others to believe. A low cap of 3-B requires less assumptions and having a variable tier with Unknown at the start is more accurate as it takes into account all statements despite how insulted you feel.

 

[First_Witch]

I honestly agree with Weekly on this one, 3-B Naga is unnecessary, especially considering how Rito is pushing her lore. And as Weekly said, the analogy is quite stretchy but actually more reasonable than scaling Naga from Sol, considering the actual difference between low 2C and anything below. Its equally infinite lol.

 

[StrongClick]

How about Unknown, at-least 3-B possibly Low 2-C due to vagueness?

 

[First_Witch]

Just make it unknown, at least Low 2C to be honest.

 

[Wokistan]

How about Unknown, at-least 3-B possibly Low 2-C due to vagueness?

This is essentially what Regis is arguing for, he's stopped trying to remove tier 2 entirely.

Weekly and some others see the 3-B's inclusion as unnecessary.

I think it's unnecessary but also not a huge deal given that Low 2-C stays either way.

 

[Rocker1189]

Main reason I think 3-B is unnecessary is because Nagakaborous is clearly waaay above 3-B having her be 3-B is flat out incorrect.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is nothing vague enough to support lowballing Naga to 3-B

 

[RegisNex1232]

Like, is it really that big of a deal to add one/two more Tier categories when Naga's powers and other ratings need to be verified as well? Is anyone going to be offended that they can now use Naga in Tier 3 fights as well as Tier 2?

It's not like Riot has given new info so far and all this can always change later.

 

[Rocker1189]

It is not that it is a huge deal it is just completely wrong.

 

[RegisNex1232]

There is nothing vague enough to support lowballing Naga to 3-B

A nonsensical statement? There is a reasonable assumptio based off a statement that supports Naga being a high 3-B as much as a Low 2-C, hence the Unknown, possibly 3-B to Low 2-C rating being suggested.

 

[Rocker1189]

So my proposal is Unknown, At least Low 2-C(insert reasoning).

 

[First_Witch]

Im not opposed to add a Sol scaling to her Ap, but i feel like its done for the sake of doing it. It dosnt make the profile more accurate, we could scale Naga through other champs too, just for the sake of it.

 

[StrongClick]

@Woki I just say at-least because the rule pages says that denotes the low cap when you dont know the exact tier

 

[RegisNex1232]

It is not that it is a huge deal it is just completely wrong.

Really? What disproves 3-B beyond assumptions of vague statements?

 

[Rocker1189]

The fact that she is literally infinitely above a 3-B debunks her being 3-B since the difference in 3-B is not infinite.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Regis

Youre taking the devs saying 'Naga is way stronger than Sol' and focusing solely on that point and that point alone when in reality a Low 2-C would in fact be way stronger and Naga being Low 2-C has far more evidence backing it, you just dont want to accept it.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Im not opposed to add a Sol scaling to her Ap, but i feel like its done for the sake of doing it. It dosnt make the profile more accurate, we could scale Naga through other champs too, just for the sake of it.

A more accurate rating would be Unknown, without any Tiers as the statements are far too vague to definitely say otherwise. This gives a range that takes into account all statements rather than ignoring unwanted assumptions.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am too tired and it is waay past mid night for me so I would just say if 3-B, possibly Low 2-C is accepted I dont mind too much myself. But I believe Unknown, At least Low 2-C is more accurate. There is no need for this to run on for much longer.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No one arguing for Naga to be Low 2-C is ignoring anything. A Low 2-C is, by definition, vastly stronger than a 3-B, consistent with what the devs said about the gap between her and Sol

 

[RegisNex1232]

Regis

Youre taking the devs saying 'Naga is way stronger than Sol' and focusing solely on that point and that point alone when in reality a Low 2-C would in fact be way stronger and Naga being Low 2-C has far more evidence backing it, you just dont want to accept it.

I am proposing a variable Tier, which you are simply denying due to disliking the rating being there for some reason. 'When in reality'? You have zero ideas about what Riot wants Naga to be and are twisting the statements to fit your assumption rather than accounting for everything. I'm not the one denying a Tier here.

 

[Rocker1189]

This gives a range that takes into account all statements rather than ignoring unwanted assumptions.
Our tier idea does not ignore any statements though. There is no place where she is said to be comparable to ASol and everything points to her being vastly above him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

3-B has no reason whatsoever, it's just nitpicking the hell out of stuff.

 

[RegisNex1232]

How is saying 3-B = comparable to Sol when an explanation will be given as well as the large gap in the Tier with Sol at the bottom and Naga at the top? Vastly above means a lot of things and saying it means infinitely above or whatever is yet to be proven, hence the variable Tier.

 

[Rocker1189]

Alright people for 3-B: (Regis,Sigurd,Imade) (3)

People for Low 2-C onlyMe, Weekly, Matt, FirstWitch, Assalt, Wokistan) (6)

Neutral: Kep

 

[RegisNex1232]

3-B has no reason whatsoever, it's just nitpicking the hell out of stuff.

Still better than making unsupported ratings.

 

[First_Witch]

Im not a big enough supporter of League, so i will unfollow and go back to work now. I said everything i had to say.

Im in support of "Unknown, likely Low 2-C" and i, rather than disagreeing, find that adding the Sol scaling is unnecessary.

 

[Rocker1189]

Except the ratings are not unsupported, you call them unsupported because whatever supports them you claim as vague:

Person makes claim and brings evidence.

You state evidence is ambiguous.

Person makes conclusion from evidence.

You ignore said evidence and say that it is unsupported.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except the ratings are not unsupported, you call them unsupported because whatever supports them you claim as vague:

Person makes claim and brings evidence.

You state evidence is ambiguous.

Person makes conclusion from evidence.

You ignore said evidence and say that it is unsupported.

Referring to Weekly making the page with 2-B ratings. Again, how is having a variable Tier so wrong other than not being fully Tier 2, when Riot has not shown conclusive evidence to say one way or the other?

 

[Rocker1189]

*comparing Aurelion Sol to Nagakabouros is like comparing a dung beetle to the Theory of Relativity, and A Sol is only bound to one plane of reality whereas Nagakabouros exists within multiple realities and multiple realms*A Sol is on a higher plane of being than Illaoi, but he is the beetle calling the ant small, Nagakabouros is All**Substantiated by Illaoi directly stating that 'all is Nagakabouros' to go along with that 'Nagakabouros is all' statement from the devs

• • Also, "Naga exists somewhere between Brahman and Tiamat and is defined as being too great to be understood by mortal minds".
• Those who fail Illaoi's test have their energy recycled back into the universe
  • As per The Burde:
    • "We pulled him from the water, as you commanded" the Hierophant smiled, adjusting the jade collar of her office. "Perhaps it would have been better to let his energy return to Nagakabouros?"

Ergo Nagakabouros is the universe and the universe is Nagakabouros

• Multiple references to Naga's influence directly affecting the normal universe and being the universe/her will being the will of the universe/the universe being her will

All of this is Tier 2 evidence.

None of it is Tier 3 evidence.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Tier 2 evidence by assumption and a fan wiki's inference isn't great. Hence the variable tiering.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh i'll post all of Illaoi's lore directly from Universe right now if you really wanna be smart like that

 

[Rocker1189]

Tier 2 evidence by assumption and a fan wiki's inference isn't great. Hence the variable tiering.

How are those assumptions they are pretty fricking blatant. You are just throwing the word around now.

And again there is no tier 3 evidence while there is tier 2 evidence.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Blatant wordplay and not indicative of a Tier, yes. Especially when other characters on this wiki have a lot more than vague statements. Again, what's wrong with a variable Tier?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, they are indicative of a tier.

Whats wrong with a Variable tier is there is nothing to support it. Nothing supports Naga being anything less than Low 2-C

 

[Rocker1189]

" Blatant wordplay and not indicative of a Tier "

Straight up dismissal with no actual reasoning, thet is like me saying that your current words are blatant wordplay. And they are wholely indicative of tier. Naga is the universe hence Low 2-C. (And when we do the 2-A revisions she would likely be 2-A)

Again there is 0 evidence of Tier 3 while there is evidence of Tier 2, I was actually wrong when I said she was infinitely above ASol, the devs literally says you can not compare them she is on a whole other level of comprehension. People look at ASol and are terrified and awed. People look at Naga and can not even understand what they are looking at.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Nothing if you ignore some statements and how vague the others are, sure. Not actually nothing in reality.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nothing if you ignore some statements and how vague the others are, sure. Not actually nothing in reality.

You mean like you are? Ignoring every statement? Please bring me statements of them being comparable.

Weekly has been bringing statement froms the start, your reasoning has simply been "she has no feats"