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Removing 2 hax

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Truth_Bullets

Truth_Bullets

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On Sonic's profile it says he has BFR and Sealing. This is referencing the Sonic 06 scene where Silver seals Blaze in another dimension.

Sonic has literally never done this or anything close. You might say he potentially could, given that he can use the Chaos Emeralds to sustain the universe, but it's clear that he, Shadow and Silver all use the Chaos Emeralds in different ways.

  • Sonic uses it to save people (Sonic Generations), restore (Sonic 06), sustain the universe (Sonic Rush) and in combat he uses it to stop time and teleport (Sonic Adventure 2: Battle)
  • Shadow uses it for its magic hax, time stopping and teleportation. I don't think I have to clarify here.
  • Silver uses it to do inter-dimensional sealing and time travel. (Sonic 06)
Essentially Sonic does good, Shadow uses magic and Silver tries to contain stuff.

What I'm getting at is Sonic doesn't need this.
 
Just because Sonic doesn't use a ability in character doesn't mean he can't, there's nothing in the series saying that Sonic, Shadow and Silver have expecific usages of Chaos Control unique to them, even as you said they used it diferentely, not that they can't use those abilities

The purpose of a profile is too list all abilities, not just the ones he uses in character, Sonic can use Chaos Control and Chaos Control in general gives those abilities, he doing it in character or not doesn't matter

So what I am getting at is that even though Sonic doesn't use them he should still have It, he doesn't need it but that shouldn't stop things from being in a profile, scaling because a character uses a ability so the other character should do it because it isn't a special one even tho it's OOC is pretty common in this wikia
 
Even under a situation where they're bloodlusted, if they've never used an ability a certain way they're likely not going to. If you were used in a combat situation and bloodlusted, just because you could potentially use grenades and assault rifles doesn't mean you're going to. If they use it differently, they don't use those abilities. Hell, we have no proof that he can, it's just the assumption that because he's used Chaos Powers he could. If that were valid, we'd have to give everyone that's used them, including Bean, Bark and Dr. Eggman that ability.

Of course. But he doesn't have that ability. And just using an extension of that ability doesn't grant you everything it has. There's zero evidence of him using it, the assumption that he's used an extension and thus should have all of it is a composition fallacy.

No, it shouldn't be on his profile. It's not a matter of in character, it's a matter of never has it been used by him ever. Blaze even said "use your Chaos Control" when talking to Silver.
 
Wait, let's take a step back, the problem is that Sonic has sealing right? But Silver was going to seal Blaze by teleporting her into another dimension right? The problem is that this shouldn't be sealing but just BFR, and using Chaos Control to teleport to another dimension was already done in Rivals 2 with Shadow teleporting him and Metal from the Ifrit's universe to their own and Sonic has show to teleport with a fake emerald which is less powerful than the real one

So a fix is remove sealing since that just BFR and that's it, we already do separate diferent Chaos abilities, Sonic has his Sonic Wind, Shadow has Chaos Spear and Silver has ESP, so we already do separate, and every Chaos Control user has show BFR so that stays
 
They all should have this. If Sonic is good enough to use Chaos Control for time travel and teleportation (with a fake emerald no less), it's likely he can do the other stuff too since Sonic has the most experience with the Emeralds. Silver was trying to stop time during his fight with Shadow but instead created a time rift not because he can't stop time (who the hell thinks that?), it's because both him and Shadow did Chaos Control at the same time which is what happens when 2 people do Chaos Control simultaneously. And since Silver is a pro at Time Travel via Chaos Control WITHOUT 2 Emeralds or 2 people and implied and stated that he can seal/BFR at the end of his story, then he should be very proficient with the other uses of Chaos Control.

It's not rocket science if you're a Sonic fan.
 
Those shouldn't be removed. Just because he hasn't shown doing doesn't mean he can't. Silver didn't seal Iblis but it still counts as his powers. Sonic should be no different.
 
If this were to go through then every Super form/Chaos Force Entity in Archie would lose conceptual manipulation because they all scale from Super Megaman preforming Chaos Control.

I heavily disagree because after all it's just chaos energy.
 
It's both Sealing and BFR because Silver was going to "seal" her into another dimension.

Also Corgi, being a Sonic fan doesn't make your points more valid. All of your arguments come from the fact that the characters can potentially use an entire force because they manipulate part of it.

Again, that's inductive reasoning and a composition fallacy.

If literally any of you can prove that Sonic can do it, without bsing "probably" please show evidence, otherwise he shouldn't have that ability.
 
>It's chaos energy that comes directly from the Chaos Emeralds which Sonic,Shadow and Silver all can manipulate.Blaze even refers to Silver's ability as Chaos Control which would seal her.Sonic can use Chaos Control,Shadow can use Chaos Control.With that logic no other Super forms or Chaos Force entities would get conceptual manipulation as only Sonic and Megaman have shown to use that application of Chaos Contro.The same scenario applies here just because they haven't been shown to do it doesn't mean they can't especially when it's Chaos Control an ability that Sonic,Shadow and Silver have used before.If we go by this logic then lots of things on this wiki will change.Debunk my Archie Sonic example and then I'll consider this as of now I see no reason as to why it would be removed for being an ability Sonic and Shadow can preform.

Also I rewatched the cutscene and Blaze literally preforms the sealing herself with the Chaos Emeralds disproving it's just an ability Silver can utilize.
 
Darksspine said:
It's both Sealing and BFR because Silver was going to "seal" her into another dimension.
Also Corgi, being a Sonic fan doesn't make your points more valid. All of your arguments come from the fact that the characters can potentially use an entire force because they manipulate part of it.

Again, that's inductive reasoning and a composition fallacy.

If literally any of you can prove that Sonic can do it, without bsing "probably" please show evidence, otherwise he shouldn't have that ability.
Click to expand...
Actually, being a fan of said series makes you more valid than someone who isn't because you actually know your stuff. Especially when you've been taking care of these profiles for months on end.

I think calling something or someone a fallacy just lost its meaning now that it's being used more frequently.

Sonic has his own powers of manipulating time and Silver was going to stop or slow time after seeing Shadow doing it giving it more context.
 
"Actually, being a fan of said series makes you more valid than someone who isn't because you actually know your stuff. Especially when you've been taking care of these profiles for months on end."

Not true. Validity is determined by if your premises imply your conclusion. You don't become more valid or more true, you're just more knowledgeable.

Also, I am a fan, and it doesn't matter how much you've taken care of the profiles, that doesn't make you right. Present an actual argument.

"I think calling something or someone a fallacy just lost its meaning now that it's being used more frequently."

This means nothing since it's your opinion. Fallacies can't lose meaning by being used, it's not your little toy that gets taken away when others use it. Plus this refutes nothing, and even if the fallacy bit was true, that wouldn't change your reasoning from inductive to deductive.

"Sonic has his own powers of manipulating time and Silver was going to stop or slow time after seeing Shadow doing it giving it more context."

Not what I asked for. I said show me Sonic ever doing it once.

"If Even Knuckles can use Chaos Control to BFR stuff then Sonic, Shadow And Silver should follow by default."

No one's debating on Silver doing it, the scans directly show it. And Shadow is irrelevant here, he's not being used. I'm asking you to show me one solid piece of evidence that isn't inductive reasoning or a composition fallacy where Sonic uses that BFR-seal.

None of you can provide evidence. Again, this should be dropped.
 
"No one's debating on Silver doing it, the scans directly show it. And Shadow is irrelevant here, he's not being used. I'm asking you to show me one solid piece of evidence that isn't inductive reasoning or a composition fallacy where Sonic uses that BFR-seal."

This is a faulty argument, Sonic has just as much access to Chaos Energy as Knuckles Plus Silver, And Shadow Is Relevant here, Sonic is more Aligned with the Unification Of Chaos then Shadow. Again if Knuckles can BFR then applying occam's razor and common sense. Sonic would be able to do it as well. Removing the Hax is unnecessary and a oof Level decision.
 
"This is a faulty argument"

How?

"Sonic has just as much access to Chaos Energy as Knuckles Plus Silver,"

Again, having access to part of something doesn't give you access to the whole. That's a composition fallacy.

"And Shadow Is Relevant here, Sonic is more Aligned with the Unification Of Chaos then Shadow."

No, Shadow's irrelevant because we're debating on whether Sonic should have this, Shadow has nothing to do with it and you're roping him in for zero reason.

Even still, that doesn't give Sonic the ability.

"Again if Knuckles can BFR then applying occam's razor and common sense."

Occam's razor doesn't justify Sonic having this ability here lmao, fewer assumptions to not be absurd doesn't lead you to the absurd, you're not using it properly.

Also, since you like to use philosophical razors, let me refer you to hitchen's razor, which says "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." You have no evidence, so you have no point.

"Removing the Hax is unnecessary and a oof Level decision."

No, it's needed because it's literally a lie and a good idea. Again, present one piece of evidence that gives Sonic this ability.

"Sonic also has sealing due to the magic hand."

Oh yeah, I'm not arguing against this, I agree with it, I'm just saying Sonic shouldn't have this inter-dimensional BFR sealing.
 
You ignored the part where Shadow and Metal teleported to another dimension in Rivals 2 using Chaos Control and Shadow himself stated that Sonic using Chaos Control to teleport with a fake emerald was impossible

So the ability wasn't used only by Silver and there's evidence Sonic can do so, this is unecessary
 
Oh! ... didn't Sonic had to help Shadow with Chaos Control at the end of SA2 to teleport the falling Ark?
 
Exactaly, if Knuckles, Silver, Blaze and Shadow can do it saying Sonic can't just because he hasn't show is wrong since the ability is just a extension of the teleportation of Chaos Control
 
"You ignored the part where Shadow and Metal teleported to another dimension in Rivals 2 using Chaos Control and Shadow himself stated that Sonic using Chaos Control to teleport with a fake emerald was impossible

So the ability wasn't used only by Silver and there's evidence Sonic can do so, this is unecessary"

Sonic teleporting is different from using inter-dimensional BFR sealing. This isn't evidence.

"Exactaly, if Knuckles, Silver, Blaze and Shadow can do it saying Sonic can't just because he hasn't show is wrong since the ability is just a extension of the teleportation of Chaos Control"

How is an unrelated character doing something with a force going to give another character that uses the force the same ability when they never have even shown they can use it? Again, composition fallacy, for the eightieth time.
 
Because the sealing is just another use of teleportation but by other people, Sonic also teleported other beings before like the Ark already and everything, Chaos Control is the ability to manipulate time and space, all of those abilities are diferent usages of it, so if a character uses Chaos Control stronger than the other character can, we aren't in a Discord debate were calling things fallacy makes your argument or idea correct
 
There's a major difference in hax between teleporting and BFR. You can't say that because someone can teleport, they can BFR. Those are majorly unrelated.

"Sonic also teleported other beings before like the Ark already and everything,"

That's not inter-dimensional or sealing and it required Shadow to perform it. Before you say it was because of how big it is, you're gonna need proof that that's the only reason why, especially considering Shadow is the Chaos Magic guy.

"Chaos Control is the ability to manipulate time and space, all of those abilities are diferent usages of it, so if a character uses Chaos Control stronger than the other character can"

That's not how it works. Yes, Chaos Control manipulates time and space, and there are many different abilities that can be used through it, but using some even to the best degree won't give you the others unless you directly show it.

"we aren't in a Discord debate were calling things fallacy makes your argument or idea correct"

This is a stupid point. First, this is irrelevant. Second, it never makes it correct, it's just stating the obvious. Third, if your argument is based off of fallacies, which I'm pointing out here, it's wrong.

Show me one piece of evidence, just one.
 
@Darksspine

You're the only one committing fallacies here bucko.

Are you saying that Sonic can't control Chaos Control as much and adeptly as Knuckles And Silver? Because if that's the case I'm leaving you with burden of proof showing he's more limited than them when it comes to the concept, so many instances where Sonic has surprised us with Chaos Control, stopped the nature of a dimension from collapsing with a Chaos Emerald, Explained how it works completely to Blaze and can do Chaos Control on the regular and has used it with things like a copy emerald which the people here brought up was thought to be impossible to shadow, Sonic can use Chaos Energy just as Someone as Novice with it as Shadow, yet you're ignoring that oh let's not forget Sonic was able to use the master emerald to attempt to calm emerl and the chaos Emeralds within.


Well if that's the case Then Sonic should have it, even if we played devils advocate Sonic has observed what others could do with it and has used the same or similar uses in other times.


Okay then, that's you, and still that's burden of proof for you since you're arguing he shouldn't have the Hax yet fail to provide context and evidence that he's not capable of BFR which when people with lower maintenance of Chaos Control can do it nevermind Sonic has done it as well, You henceforth then forfeit your case. Zamasu may not be on the liking of Sonic but he brings a debatable case, you? I cannot say or think of the same for you.

@Darksspine I could care less about how much of a fan you are but your topics and info better be correct while asserting a request/appeal/argument.

Please State a Fallacy when it is Actually being Done, there's nothing wrong with calling out a fallacy whether it's trash places like discord, Reddit, this place or whatever the F; you're stating that someone's opinion/argument/takes are flawed for good reason.

If we went on not stating who's doing a fallacy or fallacies, the debate would be poor, disgusting, unorganized, full of chaos and untouchable.
 
There's a major difference in hax between teleporting and BFR. You can't say that because someone can teleport, they can BFR. Those are majorly unrelated.

Except in this case the BFR comes from teleporting others to space/other universes so they are very related here

That's not inter-dimensional or sealing and it required Shadow to perform it. Before you say it was because of how big it is, you're gonna need proof that that's the only reason why, especially considering Shadow is the Chaos Magic guy.

This whole thing of diferent characters having diferent usages was already debunked earlier in the thread by proving multiple people share the same abilities, Chaos Spear, Blast etc. isn't Chaos Control so there's no special Chaos Control that other characters have, Sonic is the only one who hasn't showed that ability because he doesn't even use Chaos Control much. Black Doom especificaly says that big objects like the Black Comet need more emeralds to teleport

That's not how it works. Yes, Chaos Control manipulates time and space, and there are many different abilities that can be used through it, but using some even to the best degree won't give you the others unless you directly show it.

Except it does, slowing time, stopping It, teleporting are all diferent usages of manipulating time and space, other abilities like Chaos Blast or Chaos Spear, Shadow's "magic" aren't Chaos Control and Sonic has his wons like Sonic Wind already

This is a stupid point. First, this is irrelevant. Second, it never makes it correct, it's just stating the obvious. Third, if your argument is based off of fallacies, which I'm pointing out here, it's wrong.

I apologize for that, my head wasn't in the best place so I got angry over you calling things fallacies and irrelevant

Show me one piece of evidence, just one.

Sonic teleporting the space colony Ark is already a form of BFR, when I said this thread was unecessary is that Sonic would still keep sealing and he could still BFR by simply teleporting other people

You are definitvely going to call this point irrelevant but this line of thinking is why Death Battle thought Sonic couldn't stop time, this is more for you to think about it
 
"Are you saying that Sonic can't control Chaos Control as much as Knuckles And Silver? Because if that's the case I'm leaving you with burden of proof showing he's more limited than them when it comes to the concept, so many instances where Sonic has surprised us with Chaos Control, stopped the nature of a dimension from collapsing with a Chaos Emerald, Explained how it works completely to Blaze and can do Chaos Control on the regular and has used it with things like a copy emerald which the people here brought up was thought to be impossible to shadow, Sonic can use Chaos Energy just as Someone as Novice with it as Shadow, oh let's not forget Sonic was able to use the master emerald to attempt to calm emerl and the chaos Emeralds within."

I'm not doubting that, I'm saying just because he's good with chaos energy doesn't mean he can perform this one move he's never ever shown to do. Also, you can't put burden of proof on me for claiming a negative lmao

"Well if that's the case Then Sonic should have it, even if we played devils advocate Sonic has observed what others could do with it and has used the same or similar uses in other times."

Proof?

"Okay then, that's you, and still that's burden of proof you're arguing he shouldn't have the Hax yet fail to provide context and evidence that he's not capable of BFR which when people with lower maintenance of Chaos Control can do it nevermind Sonic has done it as well, You henceforth then forfeit your case."

Again, you can't put burden of proof on me when I claim a negative. You have to prove the positive, that's how it works. My negative was that he could not perform that ability, and if you want to say he can you have to prove the positive. If you can't, you henceforth forfeit your case. Which is pretty funny considering you still haven't.

"Please State a Fallacy when it is Actually being Done, there's nothing wrong with calling out a fallacy whether it's trash places like discord, Reddit, this place or whatever the F; you're stating that someone's opinion/argument/takes are flawed for good reason.

If we went on not stating who's doing a fallacy or fallacies, the debate would be poor, disgusting, unorganized, full of chaos and untouchable."

I am. This entire debate from your end is in support of a composition fallacy. Please do tell me how you're not comitting one.

"Except in this case the BFR comes from teleporting others to space/other universes so they are very related here"

Again, teleportation of yourself is different from teleportation of others and they're unrelated.

"This whole thing of diferent characters having diferent usages was already debunked earlier in the thread by proving multiple people share the same abilities, Chaos Spear, Blast etc. isn't Chaos Control so there's no special Chaos Control that other characters have"

Some characters sharing abilities doesn't mean everyone universally has the same abilities. Characters can fire energy beams in Dragon Ball, but it doesn't give them each other's hax.

Also Blaze literally says "your" Chaos Control to Silver, it's clear they use it in different ways.

"Sonic is the only one who hasn't showed that ability because he doesn't even use Chaos Control much."

So? That wouldn't mean he has it. You're arguing for something that isn't shown to exist, and I can do the same. For example, you can say "Sonic has this ability, it's just outside of our knowledge." and if so I can equally say "Sonic doesn't have this ability via a clause outside of our knowledge." If you can directly prove it with evidence, he has it, otherwise he does not.

"Black Doom especificaly says that big objects like the Black Comet need more emeralds to teleport"

So a 2-C character can't use BFR on his own level because the 3D object was too big? That's an obvious contradiction.

"Except it does, slowing time, stopping It, teleporting are all diferent usages of manipulating time and space, other abilities like Chaos Blast or Chaos Spear, Shadow's "magic" aren't Chaos Control and Sonic has his wons like Sonic Wind already"

My point was "there are many different abilities that can be used through it, but using some even to the best degree won't give you the others unless you directly show it." You stating the different abilities doesn't prove that point.

Also I know it's not literally magic, I'm just paraphrasing.

"I apologize for that, my head wasn't in the best place so I got angry over you calling things fallacies and irrelevant"

Likewise man, I got a bit heated and I apologize for that.

"Sonic teleporting the space colony Ark is already a form of BFR"

Except he only did this in his Super form and still needed assistance from Shadow.

"You are definitvely going to call this point irrelevant but this line of thinking is why Death Battle thought Sonic couldn't stop time, this is more for you to think about it"

Yep, it's irrelevant, but this isn't even true. Death Battle said he couldn't stop time because he only did it in a multiplayer mode and they thought it was non-canon, not because he had never shown the ability. They literally played a clip of it.

Apologies for the big wall of text. Though, for the seventh(?) time now, I'll ask you to show me one piece of evidence where Sonic uses this move.
 
Dude what? He's never shown to make holes in time and space and send himself and others through it? Do you remember Sonic 06? Hell It is consistently stated Chaos Emeralds Control Time And Space, if he can manipulate time and space as well as having feats of using Chaos Control to move things to different areas then BFR is already there. Blaze also states Silver can stop time and send her and Iblis to another dimension, we've never seen him do it yet it's there isn't it? Are you saying Sonic hasn't used Chaos Control on Himself or others? Because if you think that then all the validity this thread had goes through the window.

Shadow Stops Time Or Teleport, Sonic Stops Time Or Teleport, Shadow Opens A Hole In The Concept Of SpaceTime To Time Travel Or Go To A Different Dimension, Sonic Opens a Hole In The Concept Of SpaceTime To Time Travel And go back to the present and reverse Eggman and Elise's Death, then does it again while meeting the true Solaris then goes back in time to Stop the Eventual Torture Of Solaris. Uses this in Sonic Rush to Stabilize/Warp/Manipulate a SpaceTime Continuum after two Universes are merged and Blaze And Him BFR's themselves as well as their respective nemesis', in Rush Adventure it's used to send him and Tails home, and then in Sonic Runners it's in The Profile Of Blaze Of using the Sol Emeralds to meet Sonic by going between Dimensions, and the only difference between the Emeralds Of Sol and Chaos is that one is a North Pole And One is a South Pole. And the Knuckles BFR Scan, Sonic, Knuckles And Silver were with Eachother during that moment https://youtu.be/ZQ0mRPLqp_Y

Code: 
You clearly missed tidbits like this haven't you?
Uhhhh that's not how it works, you're the positive aka the one asserting the claim and I'm the one flat out against it aka the negative, at this point you have to prove your positive again because I refuted your conclusion.

It's not a composition fallacy, it's quite literally observed that Sonic can do everything any other Chaos/Sol user can do unless stated otherwise, you're saying Sonic can't do it because he's never done it, not only is that wrong but the reasoning is more off putting, Sonic did Chaos Control and Mastered it's elements only hours after seeing Shadow do it, then we see him doing it with shadow in 06, then he does it again with Silver, then we see him use the master emerald in Battle, then we all know what he does in Rush 1 and 2. Devils Advocate was placed so on that even if he never did the BFR, he would be able to do it from seeing it on how others do it.

No the BFR comes from Both, Sonic can Move Objects or Other People Chaos Control this is done in 06, And is a byproduct of the Emeralds controlling SpaceTime Itself.

Dragon Ball Analogies is a Horrible Placement. "Your" is literally your only argument? TimeStop isn't even needed, you warp the sucker to a different segment of spacetime. Furthermore you have to show that there's individual Chaos Control, and Considering he learned Chaos Control from Shadow And Sonic has like a lot experience of that, you are building up a argument of nothing and it's about to come crashing down.

That's a Hasty Generalization Fallacy, Sonic knows all the concepts of Chaos Energy like Shadow Energy, they use it in different ways but are matched to a T, Shadow took Years or experimenting with Chaos Energy And Sonic comes it and learns it in hours, and other games show him using it to repair space time continuum's and such of the like.

I have no idea what you and User are talking about for those two lines.

I don't know why that matters this was from the biolizard who also had Chaos Energy, Since that was in order Sonic And Shadow working together on it doesn't declassify the notion, plus one-two chaos Emeralds is then consistently shown to do more, Sonic still knows to BFR nonetheless which stems from using the chaos Emeralds. You want the Tier 2 Hax removed completely which still wouldn't slide.

He can literally stop time, Control SpaceTime And Make Holes In it, your lack of knowledge is none of our concern. You have to show he can't do it. Silver didn't BFR Blaze but he could do it, you're saying that's a individual thing, can you prove it? Opening Holes In SpaceTime Alone In This Case for Sonic The Hedgehog = Bye Bye And they can do that. Before you say Since Sonic hasn't shown this = he can't do it. You need to provide proof he can't do it. We can do Occam's Razor for our Case, you can't for yours.

This is a very long Text no lie.
 
"Dude what? He's never shown to make holes in time and space and send himself and others through it? Do you remember Sonic 06? Hell It is consistently stated Chaos Emeralds Control Time And Space, if he can manipulate time and space as well as having feats of using Chaos Control to move things to different areas then BFR is already there. Blaze also states Silver can stop time and send her and Iblis to another dimension, we've never seen him do it yet it's there isn't it? Are you saying Sonic hasn't used Chaos Control on Himself or others? Because if you think that then all the validity this thread had goes through the window."

Firstly, validity wouldn't be discarded. Validity is determined by if your premises imply your conclusion.

Secondly you're performing a strawman fallacy. I never denied any of these things, I denied Sonic could use Chaos Control to perform inter-dimensional BFR sealing because there's no evidence that he can.

"Shadow Stops Time Or Teleport, Sonic Stops Time Or Teleport, Shadow Opens A Hole In The Concept Of SpaceTime To Time Travel Or Go To A Different Dimension, Sonic Opens a Hole In The Concept Of SpaceTime To Time Travel And go back to the present and reverse Eggman and Elise's Death"

What? When did he open a hole in the concept of space and time? You're gonna have to show proof that he did that and that's why Sonic did it lmao. Also, Sonic stopped time and teleported on his own, he didn't get an example.

"And the Knuckles BFR Scan, Sonic, Knuckles And Silver were with Eachother during that moment"

Except you haven't shown any proof that Sonic copies what others do. You're just mentioned abilities Sonic does on his own with no proof that he even copied them.

"Uhhhh that's not how it works, you're the positive aka the one asserting the claim and I'm the one flat out against it aka the negative, at this point you have to prove your positive again because I refuted your conclusion."

Positive doesn't mean I'm asserting the claim and negative doesn't mean you're going against it. You clearly don't know how it works.

A positive claim is a claim of existence or truth that says "is" or "are", like "you are stupid." If you make a positive claim, you must prove the truth, so you'd have to prove how you are stupid.

A negative claim is a claim of non-existence and asserts something as untrue and says "not", such as "you are not smart." If you make a negative claim, you don't have to prove anything, the person who asserts a positive claim must rather prove they are smart if they don't think this is true.

I advise you don't use terms you don't understand.

"It's not a composition fallacy, it's quite literally observed that Sonic can do everything any other Chaos/Sol user can do unless stated otherwise, you're saying Sonic can't do it because he's never done it, not only is that wrong but the reasoning is more off putting, Sonic did Chaos Control and Mastered it's elements only hours after seeing Shadow do it"

You're contradicting yourself. If you can't provide evidence that Sonic can perform this inter-dimensional BFR sealing, then there's no proof that he can do everything any other Chaos/Sol user can do. You don't have anything to substantiate this point with regardless.

Sonic didn't perform Chaos Control after seeing Shadow do it, when he first saw Shadow teleport with it, he already knew what he was doing and said he was warping with the Chaos Emerald.

"Devils Advocate was placed so on that even if he never did the BFR, he would be able to do it from seeing it on how others do it."

You'd still have to prove this.

"No the BFR comes from Both, Sonic can Move Objects or Other People Chaos Control this is done in 06, And is a byproduct of the Emeralds controlling SpaceTime Itself."

Show scans.

"Dragon Ball Analogies is a Horrible Placement."

Just saying that doesn't refute the point.

"Furthermore you have to show that there's individual Chaos Control, and Considering he learned Chaos Control from Shadow"

He didn't learn it from Shadow as debunked earlier, and I already showed Blaze saying Silver has a specific Chaos Control usage. I'm not saying there's different forms, I'm saying characters are limited to using it in their own ways and that they don't instantly gain everything through a composition fallacy.

"That's a Hasty Generalization Fallacy, Sonic knows all the concepts of Chaos Energy like Shadow Energy, they use it in different ways but are matched to a T, Shadow took Years or experimenting with Chaos Energy And Sonic comes it and learns it in hours, and other games show him using it to repair space time continuum's and such of the like."

How is "You're arguing for something that isn't shown to exist, and I can do the same. For example, you can say "Sonic has this ability, it's just outside of our knowledge." and if so I can equally say "Sonic doesn't have this ability via a clause outside of our knowledge." If you can directly prove it with evidence, he has it, otherwise he does not." a Hasty Generalization? I explained my reasoning thoroughly and there's no apriorism.

"I don't know why that matters this was from the biolizard who also had Chaos Energy"

How does having Chaos Energy make you resist the effects of Chaos Energy? If this were even remotely true Sonic would resist all of his own Chaos hax and we don't accept that. This is like the concepts of space-time point from earlier, you can't argue from headcanon here.

"Since that was in order Sonic And Shadow working together on it doesn't declassify the notion"

Yes it does, because nothing says having Chaos Energy makes you resist Chaos hax.

"plus one-two chaos Emeralds is then consistently shown to do more"

Yes, by other characters. We're arguing over whether Sonic can do this.

"Sonic still knows to BFR nonetheless which stems from using the chaos Emeralds."

And he needed help to do it.

"You want the Tier 2 Hax removed completely which still wouldn't slide."

This is another strawman fallacy because I never said this. I said I wanted two of the abilities removed, not the tier 2 hax. My point is that the statement "A 2-C being's hax are limited to a 3D object" is a contradiction.

"He can literally stop time, Control SpaceTime And Make Holes In it, your lack of knowledge is none of our concern. You have to show he can't do it."

I don't disagree with this. In fact, I've agreed with this several times in the thread. I was telling User why Death Battle disagreed with it. Your own lack of knowledge is very apparent in this thread though, even here when you're telling me I have some lol

"Silver didn't BFR Blaze but he could do it, you're saying that's a individual thing, can you prove it?"

Yes, because Blaze said it was "your" ability to Silver. His specifically. And nobody else EVER does it.

"Opening Holes In SpaceTime Alone In This Case for Sonic The Hedgehog = Bye Bye And they can do that."

Opening a portal to another dimension doesn't grant you inter-dimensional BFR sealing, especially not in the way Silver did it, because he didn't use a portal.

"Before you say Since Sonic hasn't shown this = he can't do it. You need to provide proof he can't do it. We can do Occam's Razor for our Case, you can't for yours."

I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove the positive. Also, you literally can't apply occam's razor. Occam's razor is used to reduce arguments, not to further inflate yours. Hell, I can use occam's razor here, because it says:

"Entities should not be multiplied without necessity."

So you shouldn't be giving Sonic this ability unless you can prove he can do it, which you can't.

Also, again, because you like using philosophical razors, why don't you look at hitchen's razor, which says because you have no evidence you can be dismissed with no evidence? It'd help out everyone else.

Your entire argument incorrectly uses razors, headcanon, fallacies and inductive reasoning to come up with this answer that you think I disagree with when I don't. For ****'s sake, you've strawmanned me, SEVERAL times. Either show me a scan where Sonic does it, or you concede via burden of rejoinder, burden of proof, hitchen's razor and your ad nauseum.

Again, one more time. Show me a scan where Sonic does this once. If so, we can use it. If not, it needs to be dropped.
 
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