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Removing 2 hax

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Does anyone else have something to say? All the main reasons have been debunked and it seems like TheImagineBreaker has conceded.

If not, this should be closed and the hax removed.
 
Darksspine said:
"Dude what? He's never shown to make holes in time and space and send himself and others through it? Do you remember Sonic 06? Hell It is consistently stated Chaos Emeralds Control Time And Space, if he can manipulate time and space as well as having feats of using Chaos Control to move things to different areas then BFR is already there. Blaze also states Silver can stop time and send her and Iblis to another dimension, we've never seen him do it yet it's there isn't it? Are you saying Sonic hasn't used Chaos Control on Himself or others? Because if you think that then all the validity this thread had goes through the window."

Firstly, validity wouldn't be discarded. Validity is determined by if your premises imply your conclusion.

Secondly you're performing a strawman fallacy. I never denied any of these things, I denied Sonic could use Chaos Control to perform inter-dimensional BFR sealing because there's no evidence that he can.
Click to expand...
If Sonic has been shown matching Chaos Control with Shadow (SA2) and Shadow used inter-Dimensional BFR, Sonic can use it too, as there's no specific thing about Shadow's Chaos Control being different from Sonic's.
 
Shadow didn't use Chaos Control for inter-dimensional BFR sealing, look aat the VERY top of the thread where literally only Silver does it. The entire discussion is built off of that

Read. The. Thread. Before. You. Comment. You'd think you'd at least read what prefaces the argument.
 
Sorry, I remembered the Shadow and Metal Sonic example. Except, my point still stands, as Silver's Chaos Control matched Shadow's and they created a time portal.
 
Okay, Silver and Shadow performing Chaos Control at the same time doesn't give them the same abilities as each other. That's a hasty generalization and composition fallacy.
 
Yes, but there is no evidence that they have abilities with Chaos Control exclusive from each other.

Shadow uses Blast and Spear but there is no evidence Sonic can't use them. He simply chooses not to like teleportation.
 
>They use it in different ways

>They aren't shown to use it in the ways each other can every time

>Blaze says "your" Chaos Control

Sonic can't use them, there's no evidence he can. You're performing an argument from ignorance, which is a fallacy.
 
>Only time Sonic used was exactly like Shadow's

> Sonic doesn't use it enough for you to make that statement

> Why is Blaze's wording important?
 
"Only time Sonic used was exactly like Shadow's"

Okay, using the same extension of an ability doesn't mean you have all the extensions of that ability shown by everyone to ever use it.

"Why is Blaze's wording important?"

Are you suggesting we can't use statements? Because that's not true.
 
> But that also doesn't mean Sonic can't when Sonic was shown to easily use teleportation after watching Shadow use it a few times without anyone teaching Sonic.

> If the statement came from Tails or Eggman who knows Sonic, Shadow and the Chaos Energy for a long time, then it holds weight. But how well does Blaze know every user of Chaos Control and how well does she know about Chaos Energy? She is the guardian of the Sol Emeralds, not Chaos Emeralds.
 
"But that also doesn't mean Sonic can't when Sonic was shown to easily use teleportation after watching Shadow use it a few times without anyone teaching Sonic."

Again, read the thread. We already discussed this. Shadow teleported once, and Sonic already knew what he was doing and how. He said it out loud. He knew what Chaos Control was. If Sonic really is that skilled with the Emeralds, you'd think he'd know their most basic ability.

"If the statement came from Tails or Eggman who knows Sonic, Shadow and the Chaos Energy for a long time, then it holds weight. But how well does Blaze know every user of Chaos Control and how well does she know about Chaos Energy? She is the guardian of the Sol Emeralds, not Chaos Emeralds."

Firstly, she knew Silver well and clearly already had experience with the Chaos Emeralds, because she took the Chaos Emeralds and used them to seal Iblis within her. Secondly, this doesn't even matter because authors typically express infromation through character statements, and thirdly we can use all statements as evidence. That's literal law.
 
It didn't send when I was typing.

Blaze said to Silver "Use your Chaos Control to seal us in another dimension." after she had sealed Iblis within her with 2 Chaos Emeralds.
 
But you are using such a weak statement with Blaze here that I don't even want to bother countering it. ƒÿÆ
 
A hasty generalization is what's going on, when Blaze says use your Chaos Control that just means use Chaos Control, you're using a choice of words and are taking it out of context, Sonic, Shadow And Silver all use Chaos Control the same, even if we played devils advocate the way they use Chaos Control is all compatible enough to do the same things, stopping time is what sonic and shadow can do already, opening portals and teleporting/going to different timelines/dimensions or "seal" is what they can do already.

If you really think with such wording that this revision thread is going through with that alone. I'm just gonna ask a staff to review this and if it ain't worth the while to close this because it seems like no matter how or what we Refute, you go around in circles over and over again and it's becoming a burden and bothersome.
 
It was essentially the same thing as yours, TheImagineBreaker, but with more detail and context.
 
Alright, but honestly I think this is a lost cause tbh. He is using something so minor out of context and is creating a hasty generalization fallacy and when we refute it, he goes back in circles. I think we should just get a staff involved to see if this is Yay Or Nay.
 
TheImagineBreaker121212 said:
Alright, but honestly I think this is a lost cause tbh. He is using something so minor out of context and is creating a hasty generalization fallacy and when we refute it, he goes back in circles. I think we should just get a staff involved to see if this is Yay Or Nay.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw him referencing Blaze from the end of Silver's story. Only, by doing that, I found further evidence that there is no difference in capabilities between Chaos users in that very cutscene.
 
"A hasty generalization is what's going on, when Blaze says use your Chaos Control that just means use Chaos Control, you're using a choice of words and are taking it out of context,"

A hasty generalization is when you apply one feature of an object to all the others of the genus. Such as "The debaters on this thread are stupid. Thus, all debaters on VSBW are stupid." It's not a hasty generalization to take the literal context of the scene and apply it when that was the direct context made for the scene. It is however a hasty generalization to say Sonic can use Chaos Energy, therefore he can use all of its extensions.

"Sonic, Shadow And Silver all use Chaos Control the same,"

They don't because Sonic still never did it lmao. If they did, you'd have to prove that Sonic can use this ability, which you can't. Again, the argument's a composition and inductive reasoning fallacy.

"even if we played devils advocate the way they use Chaos Control is all compatible enough to do the same things,"

You'd have to prove that they are capable of using all the extensions of the ability.

"stopping time is what sonic and shadow can do already, opening portals and teleporting/going to different timelines/dimensions or "seal" is what they can do already."

And? That doesn't give them this ability.

"If you really think with such wording that this revision thread is going through with that alone. I'm just gonna ask a staff to review this and if it ain't worth the while to close this because it seems like no matter how or what we Refute, you go around in circles over and over again and it's becoming a burden and bothersome."

"Alright, but honestly I think this is a lost cause tbh. He is using something so minor out of context and is creating a hasty generalization fallacy and when we refute it, he goes back in circles. I think we should just get a staff involved to see if this is Yay Or Nay."

Alright, if we're being straight I'll take my turn.

To all the debaters who have made arguments that got refuted, went silent, then started giving kudos to other arguments because they can't come up with any good reason to support something that's blatantly fallacious (or find a way to disprove it even being fallacious), specifically TheImagineBreaker, TheUser, and ElixirBlue:

it seems you don't know when you've lost. I've said literally almost ten times now that to prove this ability, you must show he can either use all extensions or use this ability. None of you can prove this in any way, shape, or form.

Every time I refute your arguments, you go silent, but camp on the thread to support others who make more bad arguments that get refuted.

You've thrown philosophical terms, fallacies and logical principles that can't be applied and have tried to the best of your ability to prove something there's no proof for. You haven't even begun to acknowledge the fallacies you employed in the process.

If you think that this thread is going in circles, consider that you've been using the same arguments this entire time that have already been refuted. You haven't refuted me at all, and in a formal debate you would've lost at the very beginning due to burden of rejoinder.

We can keep debating, but you can't solve your problems by getting other people to step in because you feel the opposition is wrong. Funny how many points you drop, yet you claim I ignore your arguments yet I'm being refuted? Tell me how lmao, and stop stating things without supporting them. Notice how the people against the removal have failed to provide any scans for their arguments yet I built mine off the context and scans off the original.

If you sincerely think getting moderators involved will solve anything, it won't. If you think that your opinions and refuted arguments mean anything and can support something so pointless and unsubstantiated, they don't, unless you can prove they do, and apparently, given how you can't seem to prove any of your view points, I'll go out on a whim and say no, you can't.
 
Darksspine said:
"A hasty generalization is what's going on, when Blaze says use your Chaos Control that just means use Chaos Control, you're using a choice of words and are taking it out of context,"

A hasty generalization is when you apply one feature of an object to all the others of the genus. Such as "The debaters on this thread are stupid. Thus, all debaters on VSBW are stupid." It's not a hasty generalization to take the literal context of the scene and apply it when that was the direct context made for the scene. It is however a hasty generalization to say Sonic can use Chaos Energy, therefore he can use all of its extensions.
Click to expand...
What the heck? You didn't debunk or refute anything here with Blaze.

You are using that Blaze scene as evidence they have unique Applications of Chaos Control and we are saying it's not evidence.
 
Ok, i'm posting Blaze's quote so Darksspine can stop misleading with Blaze.

"Come on. Make it quick. Use your Chaos Control... to stop time (like Shadow in Sonic Heroes). Then... seal us into a different dimension."

Blaze said to the only person available as Shadow had previously split up from them and Sonic was busy off to save Elise.
 
Darksspine said:
"Sonic, Shadow And Silver all use Chaos Control the same,"

They don't because Sonic still never did it lmao. If they did, you'd have to prove that Sonic can use this ability, which you can't. Again, the argument's a composition and inductive reasoning fallacy.

"even if we played devils advocate the way they use Chaos Control is all compatible enough to do the same things,"

You'd have to prove that they are capable of using all the extensions of the ability.
Click to expand...
No, we don't. You need to prove why certain abilities only apply to one person.

D5BE7E15-DB3C-4C7C-A9D8-2AB119B9C793
Manipulation of Space

E5535D7E-15F6-4EB9-8A7B-1479928055DE
Manipulation of Time
 
"Come on. Make it quick. Use your Chaos Control... to stop time (like Shadow in Sonic Heroes). Then... seal us into a different dimension."

Blaze said to the only person available as Shadow had previously split up from them and Sonic was busy off to save Elise.

Shadow stopping time doesn't matter. Most users of Chaos Control demonstrate that time-space manipulation, I agree with that, I'm saying nobody but Silver shows the ability to do this.

Again, even still Shadow has never shown to do it, and if even he was available she specifically said "your" for a reason. Not "your" Chaos Control as in Silver is the only one who could do it, as in it was his technique.

No, we don't. You need to prove why certain abilities only apply to one person.

Again, this was already refuted. I'm supporting the negative, you need to prove the positive as the negative doesn't need proof, the positive needs to be substantiated. Furthermore, you've yet to prove the positive lmao, just target the context for reasoning behind the negative.

(hell, I don't even really need reasoning for the negative considering a negative's nature)
 
Darksspine said:
"Come on. Make it quick. Use your Chaos Control... to stop time (like Shadow in Sonic Heroes). Then... seal us into a different dimension."

Blaze said to the only person available as Shadow had previously split up from them and Sonic was busy off to save Elise.

Shadow stopping time doesn't matter. Most users of Chaos Control demonstrate that time-space manipulation, I agree with that, I'm saying nobody but Silver shows the ability to do this.

Again, even still Shadow has never shown to do it, and if even he was available she specifically said "your" for a reason. Not "your" Chaos Control as in Silver is the only one who could do it, as in it was his technique.
Click to expand...
First off, Blaze making that statement had no insinuation she was asking Silver do something only he can and others, like Sonic and Shadow, can not. If that's the case, Blaze's statement means Shadow can't use time stop. Which is wrong, and misleading.

Second off, Someone stating someone else owns a technique as their thing does not mean that person is the only one who can use it, that why the way you are using that statement in that way is wrong.

Using Archie Sonic as an example of this way of wording something, Sonic himself said Chaos Control was Shadow's thing. Then proceeds to do it casually for the first time in the book.

955B35BC-7BB8-426A-BB40-4E2E2F7C64E1
 
The OP seems reasonable, but I'm still in recovery so I'm going to unfollow this and let other staff handle it.
 
"First off, Blaze making that statement had no insinuation she was asking Silver do something only he can and others, like Sonic and Shadow, can not."

What do you think "your" means?

"If that's the case, Blaze's statement means Shadow can't use time stop. Which is wrong, and misleading"

It wouldn't deny Shadow can use Chaos Control to time stop. He's explictly shown to. Except he hasn't specifically shown to do everything Silver's Chaos Control abilities can.

"Second off, Someone stating someone else owns a technique as their thing does not mean that person is the only one who can use it, that why the way you are using that statement in that way is wrong."

It does though if nobody else is shown to do it.

"your

/yôr,yo═Øor/

determiner

belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing."
 
TheImagineBreaker121212 said:
Whatever DarksSpine I'm done debating you, it's a lost cause like this thread, I'm getting the knowledgeable and the mods involved now.
Click to expand...
That's fine. I'll take that as a concession.

Also I am knowledgeable, I don't see how getting more knowledgeables will help your case.
 
If you don't continue to argue against something and can't support your points, that's a concession through default via burden of rejoinder. That support my case since you conceded on your points against it. Plus, common sense says if you can't refute something it's probably solid.
 
There is no burden of anything, all the points were brought up, this stemmed from a line taken out of context. You're taking a Seed and Turning it Into a Forest. You can't even prove the consistency of the statement or show something that specifically references different users different Chaos Control. Chaos Control is the Ability to Control SpaceTime Itself, it doesn't matter what angle they are using it in, it's the same thing through and through. The Burden Of Proof is on you Since I've proven the absence of evidence. Prove that Sonic doesn't have Cereal In The Bowl. It's been refuted, me and elixir are pouncing refuting Everything you have then you not only argue in circles but include it from ignorance. The burden of rejoinder was in our favor, if I'm done it could mean I am not going Passed this and I refuse to go any further not that your argument is solid or anything. That's a fallacy in itself.
 
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