Removal of Immortality Negation

[Crabwhale]

This thread, as the title implies, is being made with the intention of removing Immortality Negation from the Power Nullification page.

The reason for this is simple. There is nothing setting apart immortality as a specialized enough power to warrant having an entire section to itself in this page. It is an unnecessary usage of space.

 

[Arcker123]

It's the same idea as having a magic nullification class. It's just an extremely common and important form of the ability. It's not separated by specialization, but popularity, which IMHO, is good enough reason to keep it.

 

[Crabwhale]

Honestly, I'm not exactly keen on the specific anti-magic part either, but that one doesn't take up an entire section of the profile so I'm less inclined against it.

 

[Arcker123]

I think it's worth being on the page, but if its in the same reduced capacity as Anti Magic, i'd be fine with that.

 

[Crabwhale]

I think it's worth being on the page, but if its in the same reduced capacity as Anti Magic, i'd be fine with that.

My biggest problem is with it being as big of a part as it is, yes.

And to be quite honest the explanation for it is mostly a nothingburger. As in it's nothing that you wouldn't have gotten from the general part of the page.

 

[Arcker123]

That just chalks up to poor profile upkeep imo. I think the better idea is to simply update the page (you can say that about a lot of the power pages) . I think we can both agree that immortality and magic nullification are important enough for at least some mention on the page.

 

[Crabwhale]

That just chalks up to poor profile upkeep imo. I think the better idea is to simply update the page (you can say that about a lot of the power pages).

Something that I assure you I am amply aware of. These pages are pushing a decade at this point.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, bypassing immortality has less to do with a general ability to negate immortality and more to do with something else. Whether it's destroying someone on a level that exceeds regeneration of a certain degree to overcome Immortality type 3, using EE to overcome Immortality type 5, or 6, destroying what ever source grants Immortality type 8, or using power nullification on whatever other reason(s) for their immortality. Such as using power nullification on Resurrection to bypass type 4 as well could also work.

We can just look at other details instead of making an "Immortality negation" ability.

 

[Deceived3596]

Glassy worked so hard on that section, just for it to get Thanos snapped from existence.

 

[Crabwhale]

If that is the case, @Theglassman12 could you comment here.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Wasn't the original plan supposed to have separate regeneration negation and immortality negation pages and then we had a compromise and settled with elaborating the stuff on Power Null page?

EDIT: The thread in question

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

This should be a staff thread.

 

[Theglassman12]

Is your issue that you don't see Immortality Negation as an ability in general or that it has no reason being in the Power Nullification page in the first place?

 

[Crabwhale]

Is your issue that you don't see Immortality Negation as an ability in general or that it has no reason being in the Power Nullification page in the first place?

It's perfectly fine where it is in the Power Null page. I would rather reduce or remove the elaboration on it, however. Because I simply don't think it's unique enough for it.

 

[Theglassman12]

I personally disagree with it not being unique enough due to how different forms of fiction treat something as killing immortal beings as more unique than your typical power nullification, but what parts do you think shouldn’t be elaborated on?

 

[Crabwhale]

The type that get's nullified being specified could stay, but then again this should just be common sense for any power that has different types.

The type 1 specification is fine.

The type 3 specification is also fine.

I don't think the High-Godly stuff needs to be elaborated on that much. I'm pretty sure that the dimensional limitations thing also doesn't work because per the nature of our tiering system now, there first needs to be proof of qualitative superiority of those dimensions to standard 4-D space.

Oh yeah, and I don't think there should be two different lists of user examples.

 

[Theglassman12]

The high godly stuff I figured needs an elaboration on due to how we treat High-Godly in general. Given how we don't treat every single version of high-godly as the same and how history High-godly can't help them with Conceptual, Narrative or Informational erasure, might as well elaborate that the regen negation needs to show evidence that they can negate the other aspects and not just one, so better to be consistent (especially knowing some folks will likely ask this question over and over again).

Can you elaborate on what you mean on the dimensional aspect as well as the two different lists? If the latter's referring to the users, having some blatant examples of immortality negation should help anyone understand who's a blatant example of such ability in the first place.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Can the two of you shift to the same timezone to have a debate in real time?

 

[Crabwhale]

Can you elaborate on what you mean on the dimensional aspect

The way the page words it implies that any verse with extradimensional characters needs to take into account that Immortality Null will not work on them, which you would have to take steps to better specify that this is exclusively referring to verses with higher dimensions that are superior to lower ones.

But even though, I think this is also unnecessary because it is again, common sense. Or at the very the common sentiment with most hax regardless. Perhaps a brief mention of NLF, no more.

If the latter's referring to the users, having some blatant examples of immortality negation should help anyone understand who's a blatant example of such ability in the first place.

I am attempting to cut down the Immortality Negation part to a fraction of what it is, stashed away underneath the Types section. As such I think you should not be surprised that I am not willing to have a third list of characters that have it only on the page.

 

[Theglassman12]

I mean, that’s the idea when I talk about “the dimensional range they can affect”, that if it’s tied to something very clearly higher dimensional in nature than the immortal negging character is capable of doing, then they wouldn’t be able to neg it, though if you think it’s unnecessary then ok.

What about we combine the lists into one where we have it specified on which characters are the examples for power null, which one for resistance negation and which for the immortality negation?

 

[Tanin_iver]

We could just elaborate the Immortality Negation and Regeneration Negation in the Immortality and Regeneration page respectively in separate sections instead of keeping it in Power Null page. The content is related to the the topic and both of the pages can be linked to each other and would be easier to navigate too.
What do you guys say?

 

[Theglassman12]

I don’t mind that

 

[Crabwhale]

I'm fine with it also.

 

[Crabwhale]

I believe it is pertinent that a few other staff members be called to the thread before we proceed.

Also.

We could just elaborate the Immortality Negation and Regeneration Negation in the Immortality and Regeneration page respectively in separate sections instead of keeping it in Power Null page. The content is related to the the topic and both of the pages can be linked to each other and would be easier to navigate too.
What do you guys say?

Do you have an idea of where you'd implement the Immortality Negation? The regen thing we'll leave aside for now.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Do you have an idea of where you'd implement the Immortality Negation?

I presume this question was intended for me? If so then how about we move the Immortality Negation section from the Power Null page to the Immortality page right after the Types section in the page?

I believe it is pertinent that a few other staff members be called to the thread before we proceed.

Go ahead, ping some staff so that we can get more consensus.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't really see a point to the section existing regardless of where it goes tbh.

 

[Theglassman12]

Can you elaborate why when it's a unique ability that many characters on the site have in the first place?

 

[KLOL506]

We could just elaborate the Immortality Negation and Regeneration Negation in the Immortality and Regeneration page respectively in separate sections instead of keeping it in Power Null page. The content is related to the the topic and both of the pages can be linked to each other and would be easier to navigate too.
What do you guys say?

This seems like a fine addition

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It isn't really an incredibly special segment of the page, I suppose. It seems a very petty issue to me, allowing it to have its own page segment, but I also agree it doesn't really "deserve" it any more than other applications of the ability and am fine with removal. Perhaps it could be moved to "Types" alongside anti-magic, since as mentioned it's basically equivalent, I'd agree with that.

 

[Theglassman12]

Crab’s not removing it, but trimming the explanation down.

 

[Crabwhale]

Honestly I'd be down for either removing it completely or trimming it down.

I was aiming for removal, trimming down was mostly a compromise, really.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Crab’s not removing it, but trimming the explanation down.

This thread, as the title implies, is being made with the intention of removing Immortality Negation from the Power Nullification page.

I dunno man.

 

[Theglassman12]

I'm in favor of trimming it down, again a lot of characters on this site have this ability so removing it would mean you'd have to make massive changes to the entire site in general with how much folks have this power.

 

[Crabwhale]

Does their Immortality Neg not still link to the Power Null page?

 

[Armorchompy]

Can you elaborate why when it's a unique ability that many characters on the site have in the first place?

It's not. It's powernull for immortality. "Sealing Negation" or "Poison Negation" or "Fire Negation" are also "unique abilities" that many characters on the site have, but they shouldn't have sections for themselves. Hell it isn't even a single power, given different types are basically unrelated to begin with

 

[Theglassman12]

@Crabwhale it links to both immortality and power null given the lack of pages for it, but that’s why I proposed it being a new ability in the first place.

@Armorchompy you know those are not the same in property when one is done by permanently killing someone that can’t die the the other is just nullifying their powers.

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy you know those are not the same in property when one is done by permanently killing someone that can’t die the the other is just nullifying their powers.

no i don't "know" that, that's pretty hyperspecific in fact. I wouldn't assume that negating type 3 immortality is permanent for example, if you kill someone the default assumption wouldn't be that they can resurrect themselves from that once the power comes back. And even then any other kind of powernull could be assumed to have specific unique properties.

 

[Theglassman12]

Then you haven’t seen much characters that have that as an ability if you think type 3 immortality isn’t permanent when nearly everyone that has these is because they’re capable of permanently ending someone’s life, and again, this specific ability doesn’t function the same as normal Power Null when Power Null is all about nullifying someone’s abilities and the other is just permanently killing someone that’s immortal in the first place, especially if it doesn’t exactly nullify their immortality and they just have the ability to end their life for good.

 

[Crabwhale]

@Crabwhale it links to both immortality and power null given the lack of pages for it, but that’s why I proposed it being a new ability in the first place.

It shouldn't be, and I don't support it. All the links should just be changed to the Power Null page.

 

[Theglassman12]

shouldn’t they be changed to the immortality section if we just decide to move the description over there?