Reinhard Concept Manipulation remove (maybe?)

[Thanganimator]

One thing I find rather strange is that in Law/Concept Manipulation Type 2, Reinhard's manipulation of the world's principles is presented as both, and I'm not entirely sure about the lack of explanation of what "principles" actually mean. I'm also not sure if Concept Manipulation Type 2 should be removed or not.
• Law Manipulation / Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; The true power of the Dragon Sword Reid can alter the core principles of the world itself[87])

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

if you weren't even sure of anything why did you make this thread

 

[Thanganimator]

if you weren't even sure of anything why did you make this thread

Basically, Monika also had Concept Manipulation Type 2 and Information Manipulation Type 2, but her Concept Manipulation hax was later removed because "file" is simply data, and in this case, "principle" seems to be just a form of Law Manipulation, without proving its conceptual nature. That's why I think it should be removed, although I'm afraid my friend, who likes this verse, will resent me for it, so I said I wasn't sure.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Basically, Monika also had Concept Manipulation Type 2 and Information Manipulation Type 2, but her Concept Manipulation hax was later removed because "file" is simply data, and in this case, "principle" seems to be just a form of Law Manipulation, without proving its conceptual nature. That's why I think it should be removed, although I'm afraid my friend, who likes this verse, will resent me for it, so I said I wasn't sure. Furthermore, there are VSBW staff members who support this verse, so how could I possibly speak my mind?

if you feel like that isnt enough, then we can go on a tangent and consider the fact that DS Reid has destroyed the fiend and dream sword who do have cm type 2, so at the very least it should be comparable (its specifically stated to be superior)

 

[Thanganimator]

if you feel like that isnt enough, then we can go on a tangent and consider the fact that DS Reid has destroyed the fiend and dream sword who do have cm type 2, so at the very least it should be comparable (its specifically stated to be superior)

So it's Concept Destruction?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So it's Concept Destruction?

altering the core principles of the world seems more like manipulation tbh

 

[Thanganimator]

altering the core principles of the world seems more like manipulation tbh

I still don't quite understand why the "core principle" here is both Law and Concept Type 2, and I also don't really understand what you mean by Reinhard using his sword to kill demons with Concept Manipulation Type 2 to help him obtain it.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I still don't quite understand why the "core principle" here is both Law and Concept Type 2, and I also don't really understand what you mean by Reinhard using his sword to kill demons with Concept Manipulation Type 2 to help him obtain it.

I didnt mention any demons

• Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, Power Nullification, & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; The Fiend Sword Murasame is an Enchanted Sword that specializes in cutting things that lack a form, such as Curses and Contracts. Murasame's power functions by bisecting the concept of the “Point” of all things no matter the object or phenomenon, or even concept, there exists a “Point” which signifies its essence. Cutting this “Point” causes the object, phenomenon, or concept to vanish)

 

[Thanganimator]

I didnt mention any demons

It seems google translated it into "demon"

Hmmm... I see but why is a "core principle" is a concept anyway? Is it explained as being along with "Point," or is it also a concept?

 

[Zabazab]

I mean this is like getting the right answer with the wrong method. The actual reason this should be removed is that this is apparantly a mistranslation from that story, and it's more like Reinhard's saying the Dragon Sword could change the state of the world. @Crimsonobu confirm this!!

 

[Thanganimator]

I mean this is like getting the right answer with the wrong method. The actual reason this should be removed is that this is apparantly a mistranslation from that story, and it's more like Reinhard's saying the Dragon Sword could change the state of the world. @Crimsonobu confirm this!!

I still don't quite understand, are we ultimately going to remove the Concept Manipulation section of the core principles?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I mean this is like getting the right answer with the wrong method.

godly intuition...

The actual reason this should be removed is that this is apparantly a mistranslation from that story, and it's more like Reinhard's saying the Dragon Sword could change the state of the world. @Crimsonobu confirm this!!

that's actually interesting because he did change night to day with his slash

 

[Thanganimator]

So..what now?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So..what now?

probably have this closed and make a new one when the updated translations drop and get verified

Reinhard does need to be revised anyway so this will be part of that crt

 

[Thanganimator]

probably have this closed and make a new one when the updated translations drop and get verified

Reinhard does need to be revised anyway so this will be part of that crt

Sure

 

[Voidnether]

I always see as Law Manipulation capable of affecting concepts so like NPI to Concept type 3 instead of like Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) altogether

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Isn't there other justifications for his CM2?

 

[Thanganimator]

Isn't there other justifications for his CM2?

Yes, but mainly I just want to talk about this strange part.

 

[Vietthai96]

Alter the core principles of the world is just Law manip, i remember i said the same thing in the CM2 upgrade thread, the reason forbthe CM2 is that the sword can change the entire world and cam do something to concept so mixe them up and the sword have type 2 CM

Though if it is just a mistranslation then we need to wait for the confirmation ig

 

[Thanganimator]

Alter the core principles of the world is just Law manip, i remember i said the same thing in the CM2 upgrade thread, the reason forbthe CM2 is that the sword can change the entire world and cam do something to concept so mixe them up and the sword have type 2 CM

Though if it is just a mistranslation then we need to wait for the confirmation ig

They need to add this information to his profile, but I think they're already discussing it as a possible translation error, so I'll just ignore it.

 

[Vietthai96]

They need to add this information to his profile,

it is bad information anyway. The logic behind is just the sword can alter concept, it can also alter the core principles of the world, somehow mixed them up and we have it can alter concept that ground the entire world despite both are unrelated.

 

[Zabazab]

I mean this is like getting the right answer with the wrong method. The actual reason this should be removed is that this is apparantly a mistranslation from that story, and it's more like Reinhard's saying the Dragon Sword could change the state of the world.

Though if it is just a mistranslation then we need to wait for the confirmation ig

The raw page.