Reid VS Kenshiro (Re:Zero VS Fist of the North Star) (7-7-2)

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Yeah, I was kinda curious given how skilled Reid actually is. Could he beat Kenshiro? (Let's find out)

Kenshiro VS Reid
Both are 5-C (meaning Kenshiro starts at 100%)
Distance starts at 20 meters
Both are in character
Speed is equalized.
Who will win?

Reid: 7 (SatellaTheWoE, VortechsTG, Zabazab, MasterOwOgay, Sonoftanavast9, Hiiilt, TheHeavenlySword)
Kenshiro: 7 (Fezzih_007, Arkenis, Phsccarvalho, FoxySonicMaster108, Robo432343, NotoriouSoda, G33kedzinx)
Inconclusive: 2 (noninho, Stillwinston)

​

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So what stops Reid from conceptually cutting this dude's fuckery with his cm type 2, perception boost of 100x, and the fact that all Reid will be seeing is mistakes and openings
His NEP probably also will be negated considering he still exists conceptually which means his concept could be cut and Reid Astrea is very likely to do so

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

I've seen mixed opinions on whether or not metaphysical hax requires NPI or not against NEP that doesn't have the aspect against the hax

following just to watch future argument

 

[Robo432343]

Kenshiro skillstomps bro

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Kenshiro skillstomps bro

You would need to elaborate on that because Reid massively upscales from his shit + his fear hax is layered

 

[Robo432343]

You would need to elaborate on that because Reid massively upscales from his shit + his fear hax is layered

Extraordinary Genius in regards to combat (Kenshiro stands as the single most skilled fighter in his setting, surpassing all his predecessors and having absolute mastery over every single martial art displayed throughout the series. He has uncanny precision, to the point of being able to strike a pressure point as small as the tip of a pin with a strand of hair. His memory is refined to the point that he's able to memorize up to 50,000 words after reading them once. His technique and grace are unrivaled. He's capable of mastering an opponent's martial art after seeing it once, to the point where he can simply nullify its effects and see right through it. He can copy and adapt to incredibly complex techniques on the fly, such as when he adapted to Anryū Tenha's space-warping ability, when he surpassed Solia's prowess in Gento Kō Ken [a martial art once deemed to be more deadly than Hokuto Shinken and with 2000 years of history], after only seeing a single move of said style or when he managed to fight Raoh to a standstill and would have killed him had he not been stopped, despite Toki stating only minutes prior that Ken didn't even have a 1% chance of defeating Raoh. He's stated to have "infinite potential" in terms of technique and combat prowess multiple times throughout the series. Scales significantly above Toki, who, with his sheer skill and talent, bent Raoh's fate and manifested his harbinger of death. Shown multiple times throughout the series to be capable of demolishing entire armies all by himself, stated by enemy soldiers to "march calmly, unstoppable, through thousands of soldiers like he was in the middle of an empty field", casually crushed both Falco's and Jakoh's armies at the same time. Even before his final fight against Raoh and achieving Muso Tensei, he was unfathomably above combatants such as the Red Berrets, who are each capable of defeating 500 soldiers at the same time, and defeated their general with his eyes closed. In that same fight, Ken states that due to the nature of Hokuto Shinken's transmission, it's like he has 1800 years worth of combat experience and training, he was an assassin from the very moment he was born. Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength)

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

You would need to elaborate on that because Reid massively upscales from his shit + his fear hax is layered

Genius combat intelligence vs Extraordinary Genius combat intelligence

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Genius combat intelligence vs Extraordinary Genius combat intelligence

Cecilus's Extraordinary got accepted and even without that Reid upscales from Ley Batenkaitos who is also an extraordinary genius

 

[Robo432343]

Cecilus's Extraordinary got accepted and even without that Reid upscales from Ley Batenkaitos who is also an extraordinary genius

if that was the case then reid would have had extraordinary genius on his profile

but kenshiros extraordinary genius is way better than theirs anyway

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Genius combat intelligence vs Extraordinary Genius combat intelligence

Cecilus's Extraordinary got accepted and even without that Reid upscales from Ley Batenkaitos who is also an extraordinary genius
Like

Extraordinary Genius in regards to combat (Kenshiro stands as the single most skilled fighter in his setting, surpassing all his predecessors and having absolute mastery over every single martial art displayed throughout the series. He has uncanny precision,

Same with reid

to the point of being able to strike a pressure point as small as the tip of a pin with a strand of hair. His memory is refined to the point that he's able to memorize up to 50,000 words after reading them once. His technique and grace are unrivaled.

Cecilus can hold a sword and do 100s of millions of swings in his mind, swinging for literal years and then he can grab that experience from his thought and apply in action. In the middle of a fight. As a child.

He's capable of mastering an opponent's martial art after seeing it once, to the point where he can simply nullify its effects and see right through it.

Theresia level shit, she held a sword for the first time and instantly mastered it. From that point on anybody who used any kind of combart arts She could only see mistakes, openings and counters, they could be the greatest master swordsmans, axe wields, world renowned archers, assassins, the greatest martial artists etc. She was so skilled that in her vision she could see see the perfect line that if she followed would imminently kill her opponent in a single hit.
This same Theresia got one shot by Reinhard against whom she showed her most perfect sword swing ever. Reinhard has been stated to be an eternity of training above her. Reid upscales from Reinhard

He can copy and adapt to incredibly complex techniques on the fly, such as when he adapted to Anryū Tenha's space-warping ability,

Emilia and Ram in the witch tower could do the same and they are not even Theresia level

when he surpassed Solia's prowess in Gento Kō Ken [a martial art once deemed to be more deadly than Hokuto Shinken and with 2000 years of history],

Again, Ley Batenkaitos is the Gourmet of Gluttonies and has eaten over 10,000 transcendents. None of those 10,000 are fodder. They are all masters of their field, the greatest sceintists, martial artists, master swordsman etc.
He is the ultimate culmination of them and he is still not even close to Reid

after only seeing a single move of said style or when he managed to fight Raoh to a standstill and would have killed him had he not been stopped, despite Toki stating only minutes prior that Ken didn't even have a 1% chance of defeating Raoh. He's stated to have "infinite potential" in terms of technique and combat prowess multiple times throughout the series.

yeah same with Reinhard and Reid

Scales significantly above Toki, who, with his sheer skill and talent, bent Raoh's fate and manifested his harbinger of death. Shown multiple times throughout the series to be capable of demolishing entire armies all by himself, stated by enemy soldiers to "march calmly, unstoppable, through thousands of soldiers like he was in the middle of an empty field", casually crushed both Falco's and Jakoh's armies at the same time.

a 9 or 11 yr old cecilus decimated 10s of thousands of his enemies and only stopped because he ran out of people. I think he was also specificied to not kill his enemies? Anyways, he had the ability to not only decimate entire armies but even towns, cities, and even countries.

Even before his final fight against Raoh and achieving Muso Tensei, he was unfathomably above combatants such as the Red Berrets, who are each capable of defeating 500 soldiers at the same time, and defeated their general with his eyes closed.

Elsa can target your vitals while all of her senses have been cut off and her mind was floating in a void.

In that same fight, Ken states that due to the nature of Hokuto Shinken's transmission, it's like he has 1800 years worth of combat experience and training, he was an assassin from the very moment he was born. Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength)

Ley above + Reid is an eternity (literal infinite amount of training) above Theresia (qn unfathomable skill god) who has also been stated to be an eternity above the rest of the verse.

 

[Robo432343]

Cecilus's Extraordinary got accepted and even without that Reid upscales from Ley Batenkaitos who is also an extraordinary genius
Like

Same with reid

Cecilus can hold a sword and do 100s of millions of swings in his mind, swinging for literal years and then he can grab that experience from his thought and apply in action. In the middle of a fight. As a child.

Theresia level shit, she held a sword for the first time and instantly mastered it. From that point on anybody who used any kind of combart arts She could only see mistakes, openings and counters, they could be the greatest master swordsmans, axe wields, world renowned archers, assassins, the greatest martial artists etc. She was so skilled that in her vision she could see see the perfect line that if she followed would imminently kill her opponent in a single hit.
This same Theresia got one shot by Reinhard against whom she showed her most perfect sword swing ever. Reinhard has been stated to be an eternity of training above her. Reid upscales from Reinhard

Emilia and Ram in the witch tower could do the same and they are not even Theresia level

Again, Ley Batenkaitos is the Gourmet of Gluttonies and has eaten over 10,000 transcendents. None of those 10,000 are fodder. They are all masters of their field, the greatest sceintists, martial artists, master swordsman etc.
He is the ultimate culmination of them and he is still not even close to Reid

yeah same with Reinhard and Reid

a 9 or 11 yr old cecilus decimated 10s of thousands of his enemies and only stopped because he ran out of people. I think he was also specificied to not kill his enemies? Anyways, he had the ability to not only decimate entire armies but even towns, cities, and even countries.

Elsa can target your vitals while all of her senses have been cut off and her mind was floating in a void.

Ley above + Reid is an eternity (literal infinite amount of training) above Theresia (qn unfathomable skill god) who has also been stated to be an eternity above the rest of the verse.

bro kenshiro could do all of this in his sleep

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bro kenshiro could do all of this in his sleep

Yeah same with Reid
They are comparabke in skill, the real difference is how they actually fight

how is Kenshiro gonna deal with Reid who can hit Reinhard who not only has his base dodging skills being god tier in base , for eg he can dodge rain drops while running through a rainstorm and not get hit by a single drop, dodge attacks coming at him from outside of Space-time, him upscaling from Ram who could dodge invisible AoE explosions in a narrow corridor with no room, Cecilus who could dodge literal sand grains etc. But also has a divine blessing that is either causality, probability or law hax which makes all of his opponents attacks miss.

Oh and Extraordinary Genius just got added

 

[Zabazab]

4km gap

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

4km gap

Lmfao i forgot about that
Reid outranges gg

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok, Satella said two things wrong, só i gonna respond him in a bit.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Kenshiro hax and skill stomps badly and Reid can’t even interact with NEP beings.

 

[Robo432343]

ong bro there is no proof reid can interact with nep
and if Reid does realize he needs to destroy nothingness to defeat Kenshiro he would already get skill stomped
Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength

its over...

 

[Zabazab]

But... what if...

Reid: “I just told’cha. I slash down what I wanna slash down, live where I wanna live, and sleep with women I wanna sleep with―― I slashed down that borin’ game, all while hummin’.”

So did Reid declare without a care.

Cutting things which could not be seen. Alternatively, cutting connections which did not exist materially.

Was the capability of doing so, the true ability of the existence named the Sword Saint? –Arc 6 Chapter 69 "The Absurd Iron Hammer of the Sword"

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Doesn't Reid have Duraneg Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 and 3 though? I thought that'd bypass Ken's NEP, then again it's only been affected by Kaioh who has Void Manipulation (which is just really good NPI tbh)

 

[Robo432343]

Doesn't Reid have Duraneg Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 and 3 though? I thought that'd bypass Ken's NEP

yes but thats literally the only good thing he has
while ken has all of this

Martial Arts (Fist of the North Star)

Fist of the North Star is a setting famous for its many fantastical martial arts, whose number and power far supersedes that of any real world martial arts due to the lack of conventional weaponry, which forced people to turn martial arts into their most powerful weapons (source). The number of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

+ reid having only High 6-A dura

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Should I just knock Kenshiro down a bit to High 6-A? I doubt that would make it more fair.

 

[Zabazab]

Aren't both characters one-shotting with hax anyway? Why would Reid's durability matter.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Also, pretty sure Kenshiro's Muso Tensei activates if there is even a remote sign of danger, it's borderline automatic (at least faster than Ken's own perception speed)

Not saying it gives Ken the win entirely, there's a chance Reid can slash him once and he is just gone. But I feel Ken has enough skill and enough hax to pull out a W tbh

I wonder if Ken's fate hax would even save him from Reid killing him.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Should I give Reid some prep time at all? (I feel like that would make it a stomp for him)

 

[Fezzih_007]

Should I give Reid some prep time at all? (I feel like that would make it a stomp for him)

Why?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Why?

Cuz I keep hearing two sides and neither seem fair. Like Ken stomps or Reid stomps.

Even though I do feel like Kenshiro is more likely to come out on top, Reid isn’t completely hopeless due to his Conceptual Manip

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Cuz I keep hearing two sides and neither seem fair. Like Ken stomps or Reid stomps.

Even though I do feel like Kenshiro is more likely to come out on top, Reid isn’t completely hopeless due to his Conceptual Manip

Then this match is an incon i believe

 

[Zabazab]

Cuz I keep hearing two sides and neither seem fair. Like Ken stomps or Reid stomps.

Even though I do feel like Kenshiro is more likely to come out on top, Reid isn’t completely hopeless due to his Conceptual Manip

It's a very explosive match because both one-shot. Ken touches Reid or Reid slashes Ken.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

It's a very explosive match because both one-shot. Ken touches Reid or Reid slashes Ken.

I would say the range advantage is probably the game changer here
Voting reid due to outranging

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I would say the range advantage is probably the game changer here
Voting reid due to outranging

I still think Ken wins more times than not. Cuz Muso Tensei activates the moment Ken is in any remote danger, faster than his own perception speed. and Ken has straight up Precog where the fights play out in his head (which would help a LOT) too. Not to mention in MT any moves used are impossible to predict because it comes from a “blank mind”

(Furthermore, an attack thrown while in MT is considered to be "impossible to predict" since it comes from a "blank mind" despite the fact that things like subconscious reflex is considered to be a fodder technique that's easily predicted and that the very person who considers MT to be impossible to see coming is stated to possess an "unconscious fist".)

Combine that with the fact Hokuto Successors can change their fates and the like (something Reid hasn’t dealt with as far as I know) and yeah.

But alas, the vote is counted.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Ken has way too many win cons; Reactive evolution+precog+a variety of pressure point hax +instant power mimicry+fate and instant death+infinite fighting styles+ power null+existence erasure+NEP.

Voting for Kenshiro.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Ken has way too many win cons; Reactive evolution+precog+a variety of pressure point hax +instant power mimicry+fate and instant death+infinite fighting styles+ power null+existence erasure+NEP.

Voting for Kenshiro.

Counted.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Bump

 

[MasterOwOgay]

The number of wincons isnt proportional to the likelihood of winning
Voting Reid due to range

 

[Stillwinston]

Voting Mr Atatatatatatatah! FRA

 

[Robo432343]

im going to list both characters wincons

Reid

• Conceptual manip 2,3 Reid's transcendent swordsmanship manifests the very notion of the "Sword" itself[6] which slashes down all objects in the world. Stated to be able to cut concepts, and killed the concepts of sound and light
• Range
• Space-Time Manipulation (Capable of beheading Regulus despite him being cut off from the flow of time, can cut through dimensions[5])

Kenshiro

• Statistics Amplification (By raising her ki, Frieda was able to increase her power and speed and close the gap between her and Rofu, who she previously could not even get close. Raoh can envelope his body in Ki to become impervious to damage)
• Durability Negation (Can be used to directly target the internal organs and to hit other people's vital points automatically)
• Status Effect Inducement (Ken’s aura causes an army of people to collapse)
• Pressure Points (Hokuto Shinken’s power is focused into channeling one's energy in a single blow and striking into the Keiraku Hiko which are pressure points in one’s body)
• Body Control (Displayed by numerous pressure points which let the user do things like force the opponent's muscles to move against his will and shatter his spine, force his heart into overdrive to the point where the arteries and veins explode and possibly more)
• Statistics Reduction (Can weaken superhuman beings to average human levels, turn the opponent's muscles completely flaccid or make them degenerate to the point of uselessness)
• Biological Manipulation (Displayed by several pressure points, which allow the user to collapse his foes bones, restore stamina or force his ribs to turn inside-out)
• Explosion Manipulation (Displayed by many pressure points which generally allow the user to induce explosions from inside the opponent's body)
• Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation (Displayed by numerous pressure points, which allow the user to induce a catatonic state followed by memory loss, erasing the memory of the last few days, force the opponent to talk, warp memories, making the opponent think that the user is in fact an old friend or even restore memories)
• Pain Manipulation (These pressure points allow the user to make the opponent's nervous system hypersensitive to the point where a slight breeze causes agonizing pain, can induce the pain of having all of your teeth pullet at the same time, cause the opponent to feel the pain of having his throat ripped out upon screaming or making him feel the pain of every person they've harmed, they can also give a painkilling effect)

Statistics Amplification (These pressure points can seemingly double speed and power, increase power by ten times and give "inhuman strength" at the cost of your lifespan)

• Paralysis Inducement (Displayed by several pressure points, which allow the user to turn the opponent into a living statue or paralyze his respiratory muscles)
• Deconstruction (Kasumi's Hokuto Ujo Mosho Ha turns the target to dust. Tai Yan turned a guy into dust by pressing some of his pressure points)
• Limited Body Puppetry (Ken could make a man kill himself. Was able to make Amiba walk backwards. Kasumi was able to force a man to drink spit out of a bowl using a pressure point. Being struck in the Zushō point causes one’s body to move against his wishes, indicating the answers to their interrogator’s questions)

- Statistics Amplification (Hokuto users normally use 30% of their power, Tenryu Kokyu Oh gives them access to the remaining 70%, this was also shown to boost speed; Kiko Yabu massively increases the user's aura, allows him to no-sell attacks from 2 characters who could each heavily damage the user's 100% mode, as well as overpower a combined attack from them and shatter objects that the user couldn't dent while using 30%; Tekei Koho also seemingly boosts the user's power to an unknown amount)

• Precognition (Hokuto users have several ways to predict the opponent's next move: they can do so by studying a martial art, reading subtle eye and muscle movements, the movement of air around his opponent, the rhythm of your breathing after just seeing 2 moves, by seeing the moment in which the opponent channels energy into his next blow or perceiving disruptions in their aura; they are also able to have entire fights play out in their head, where they accurately read 2 steps ahead of their opponent even while the latter is doing the same)
• Reactive Evolution (Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength. Kenshiro in one fight can completely master and adapt to his opponent’s martial art to the point where he can simply nullify its effects and see right through it. Hokuto fighters can adapt to incredibly complex techniques on the fly, such as when Ken adapted to Anryū Tenha's space-warping ability, after being hit by it once, or when Kasumi was able to counter a Ki-draining technique on the fly. Hokuto users such as Kasumi can analyze and comprehend the components of an enemy's attack after seeing it once, and adapt to it. The same fighting style or technique doesn't work twice on a Hokuto master)

someone is getting cooked here

 

[Zabazab]

Wow that's so cool, how many of those can Ken use to beat Reid from 4km away?

 

[Robo432343]

Wow that's so cool, how many of those can Ken use to beat Reid from 4km away?

the 4km gap can easily be covered with the speed amplifications

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

the 4km gap can easily be covered with the speed amplifications

Dont think that will happen before he gets sliced multiple times by Reid my g

 

[Robo432343]

Dont think that will happen before he gets sliced multiple times by Reid my g

reid is not cutting NEP