Regarding Time Slow vs Time Stop

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Repp

Fair nuff, I mean Calc is already a pain enough by itself.

@Kep

That's a good way of logic


And yeah if this was time loop being compared to time stop or time paradox, it would be more clear why they are different. Time slow... is just the lil bro to time stop.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Kepekley23 about that resisting a much greater version of an ability should make you able to resist the lesser versions as well.

 

[DMUA]

Dude, you're not supposed to highlight threads like this and not have it be staff only.

Anyways, while I'm here, what is there really to say? Time Stopping is just better.

 

[Kepekley23]

The automatic assumption is that someone who can resist time-stop can also resist time-slow.

There are a few cases that disagree, but those cases should be handled in a different way. They aren't the standard.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Repp

That's what I mean by exceptions in some. Some people are exceptions to this rule, but it doesn't mean their rules have to be immediately enforced on another verse. Like cases of science vs magic. Also.... I do wonder.... Who can resist time stops but are unable to deal with time slows?

 

[FateAlbane]

Kep is right.

This is the exact same reason why someone who resists/deals with something like, say, Subatomic Matter Manipulation would be assumed to laugh at the same power on the molecular lvl.

I agree with his side.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I've just noticed, but why resistance to time stop/ time manipulation isn't present in Link's profile)? There's only written time rewind

 

[Reppuzan]

@Core

Final Fantasy characters for one thing.

Time Slows and Time Stops are treated as separate mechanics and statuses and need different equipment to resist them.

 

[PaChi2]

Link has that resistance, and it id in his profile.

 

[Thebluedash]

@DMUA What are you actually talking about, we do this all the time, please try to understand the basics of this wikia before commenting something like this

On the topic of this, I do agree that resisting time stop should let you do time slow as it's literally just a worse version of the former.

 

[Kepekley23]

Final Fantasy isn't the standard. I can also argue with franchises:

Anyone who can resist Kaguya's ETSB can automatically resist Onoki's Jinton at equal power levels.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Link has that resistance, and it id in his profile.

Ops, didn't see it

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The thing is, while both deal with time, they are very different abilities.

Time Stop alright halts the flow of time, it simply stops and nothing moves. It freezes the present moment for a prolonged amount of time.

Time Slow, meanwhile, is a distortion of the flow of time. An application of Time Manipulation. The present is stretched, making seconds last longer than seconds, making everyone other than yourself slow to a crawl. The reverse of Time Slow is Time Acceleration, and in there you boost the speed of your own time, while everyone else is normal. In this case the results are much the same, but for different reasons. Both boost your speed through Time-warping means.

Another example of Time Manipulation is Time Reversal, which is hitting the rewind button on the flow of time.

Though both deal with time, Time Stop and Time Manipulation are completely different abilities. The former is just one application of the later, and not necessarily means that resisting it will allow you to resist every other applications, specially when they work in similar ways.

To use an analogy, take these two abilities: Atomic Destruction and Matter Manipulation.

Let's say your character can endure Atomic Destruction, he can resist attacks which destroy the atoms of normal objects. Does this mean that he can resist being atomically disassembled by Molecule Man? Of course not, it is a completely different ability than Atomic Destruction, only bearing a surface level similarity in that both deal with atoms.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that making highlighted policy change threads open to everybody tend to make them quickly fill with hundreds of posts, waste everybody's time, and not lead to any conclusions.

I have asked the staff to avoid doing this.

 

[PaChi2]

In toriko they have time manipulation.

It usually is only time dilatation but when reaches a certain point it becomes timestop.

So yeh, there Timestop >>>>>>>> Timeslow. Timestop is timeslow's big brother.

 

[Rocker1189]

time stop is time manipulation. You stop time. Stopping somethiing is still manipulating it.

 

[Thebluedash]

I agree that making highlighted policy change threads open to everybody tend to make them quickly fill with hundreds of posts, waste everybody's time, and not lead to any conclusions.
I have asked the staff to avoid doing this.

Topics like this should be open to everyone, and if this thread wasn't highlighted half of the staff here wouldn't even notice this thread.

 

[FateAlbane]

Except that Time Stop literally takes that "slow" up to eleven and halts even the most infinitesimal fraction of an instant to the point where it doesn't move. At all.

Time slow is just taking whatever fractions of time and slowing it down.

It's the exact mechanic except one can never reach the absolute while the other is.

It doesn't really matter how much time is being slowed down. It will always be extremely inferior to time stopping since there can always be a lower fraction of an instant no matter what.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Matt

The problem is that, no matter how much you warp time and slow it down, it will never be stopped.

Moving in stopped time requires infinite speed depending on the way you do it. Moving in slowed time is still possible and requires finite speed.

Thus Time-Stop is an infinitely superior application of time-slow.

Time-Stop also outright warps the flow of time to stop it altogether. Both Time-Slow and Time-Stop can be described in the exact same way, so as to draw as much similarity as possible between them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it's not the same mechanic. Pausing a movie with a remote controler is not the same thing as slowing the footage taken to eleven.

 

[Rocker1189]

Let us look at it this way. If 2 people: 1 stops time and the other slows it by 1 gazillion times. What do think will happen. The one who stopped time will absolutely win the fight. The other one is completely frozen no matter how many 0s they add to their time slow.

 

[Thebluedash]

Resisting time stop is literally resisting time being stopped entirely. Time slow is slowing time, but it will never "stop" if the person could resist time being entirely stopped, why wouldn't they resist time slow? Both abilities are a type of time slow, if you look at it, time stop is just a much more effective version of it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Stopping something outright is infinitely more impressive than slowing it down.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're confusing practicality with mechanics. A better analogy would be if you wanted to pause, but only had the slow function.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Matt Comparing a video to Time itself in that manner hardly works... Cal got it better, tho.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why would? The abilities are only superficially the same thing. They don't work the same way, they require different types of time manipulation. Saying you can resist one so you can resist the other makes as much sense as being able to automatically resist time stop by resisting Time Accel.

 

[Js250476]

Basically both are time manipulation but one functions differently then the other. So logically resisting one isn't the same as resisting the other

 

[Antvasima]

@Thebluedash

Highlighting the policy change threads is fine, but making them open to everybody is not, as the discussions almost always quickly turn overwhelming in size and chaos, which also turns it much harder for the staff to reach any form of conclusions, and wastes far greater amounts of their time. I have seen this happen over and over.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Cal and @Fate

Not quite, it is an analogy that works quite well. The fallacy comes from starting the assumption by thinking that Time Stop works through Time Slow, as a natural evolution, only when, in fact, it doesn't, it has a completely different start.

 

[Kepekley23]

Don't confuse our standards with the discussion at hand.

If you were to slow time to a billionth of its normal pace, you would not be approaching a full time-stop any more than if you slowed it down to just half of its normal pace.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Matt What you're saying is the equivalent that if someone with some kind of Ice Manipulation strikes Camus with a temperature higher than absolute zero it would work.

To get to Time Stop you have to get through a lvl extremely above any time slow in existence. No matter what, Stopping time entirely will always be FAR more effective than any time slow out there.

Same reason why Absolute Zero >>>> Any other low temperature, no matter how cold.

 

[Rocker1189]

How about we look at it this way if you can move while time is completely frozen in its tracks you would be able to move even easier while it is being slowed (time is still moving).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And that doesn't prove you can resist time slow by resisting time stop. They are different abilities, not an evolution of the same idea. The Molecule < Atoms < Subatomic Particles analogy doesn't work.

No matter how much you increase Time Slow, you will never get Time Stop. This can mean that:

• Time Stop is the same thing as Time Slow but infinitely better, meaning it requires infinitely more power / hax to do.
• Time Stop is a different ability that has an entirely different set start.

As Reppuzan has stated, plenty of series differentiate from the two already. Treating them as the same is incorrect, as it leads to assumptions literally infinitely greater than when you assume that they aren't.

 

[Kepekley23]

A too long, didn't read would be:

• To move in stopped time without hax would require you to have infinite speed.

• To move in slowed time without hax would require you more speed, but it'd still be finite.

The difference between infinity and finite numbers is infinite. Time-Slow being a different type of time manip is not the point we're trying to make at all.

The point is, Time-Stop is an infinitely better application of time-slow, that requires an infinitely larger stat.

 

[Kaltias]

Doesn't matter how much you can slow down something, it will still move.

You can slow down a beam of light until it's as fast as a glacier, it's still moving.

If you stop time, it's not moving. Period.

Time slow will never be able to do what time stop does, time stop already does what time slow does to the maximum possible degree.

As others said, it would be like resisting absolute zero while being unable to resist the cold caused by a block of ice.

It's literally the same because no matter how much you cool down something, you won't reach AZ (Third law of thermodynamic). Similarly, you can keep slowing down time and it won't be standing still

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Heck, you could've use the logic in an extreme way. Hitting a High 3-A with a 4-B Attack would work because the isn't the latter. Yes, I know that's not the point Matt's getting across, but it's similar.

 

[Rocker1189]

Let us look at it this way. If 2 people: 1 stops time and the other slows it by 1 gazillion times. What do think will happen. The one who stopped time will absolutely win the fight. The other one is completely frozen no matter how many 0s they add to their time slow.

Can I have an example of a series that treats it differently?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You'll only see it in RPGs with statuses.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Fate

I already stated why comparing it to Absolute Zero is fallacious.

Absolute Zero is a set value. - 273.5 Celsius. You need to be that exact number to reach it.

Infinity isn't a number. Infinity is a concept, the number of numbers available in a complete set. Saying that to reach time stop you need to do a time slow x infinity is illogical, and utterly wrong when looking at fiction, where they are more often than not treated as different abilities.

 

[ProspectX]

As i said, it depends on the level of it.