Regarding regeneration

[ImmortalDread]

about what you quote, it seems to be Zamasu returning only with his will

If a character doesn't have a soul is he able to die a natural death?

Depends on the verse mechanics

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Depends on the verse mechanics

kinda like the demons from supernatural that don't have a soul

 

[ImmortalDread]

kinda like the demons from supernatural that don't have a soul

Is this not in the case of his source = heart? Because if yes, soul does not matter as he already has immortality type 8 and regenerating from source is generally mid-godly regeneration.

 

[Theglassman12]

@ImmortalDread Toby is talking about the show Supernatural, not MG.

@Toby020 depends on how important the soul is treated in the series in terms of how they live. If you can still shoot them in the head and they die despite lacking a soul at best it would just give them immunity to soul manipulation. Nothing to do with immortality

 

[ImmortalDread]

@ImmortalDread Toby is talking about the show Supernatural, not MG.

Then, I misunderstood. Apologies

 

[GyroNutz]

What do you think about this?

This wording looks good to me

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

@ImmortalDread Toby is talking about the show Supernatural, not MG.

@Toby020 depends on how important the soul is treated in the series in terms of how they live. If you can still shoot them in the head and they die despite lacking a soul at best it would just give them immunity to soul manipulation. Nothing to do with immortality

exactly

 

[Antvasima]

How about something like this?

"Statements or feats of regeneration in which characters are able to survive as long as a part of their existence, such as their souls or minds, remain intact, or that involve the regeneration of a non-physical aspect of the body while the body itself remains intact, do not warrant godly levels of regeneration due to involving resurrection rather than the complete destruction and reforming of both the physical and non-physical aspects of a body, which is a fundamental requirement to qualify."

@Antvasima that looks fine.

Looks good to me.

It's fine with me.

Seems fine at a glance.

I'm good with this.

Sounds good enough.

This wording looks good to me

Thank you for all of the evaluations. We seem to have sufficient support then.

Should the text be added to the end of the "Summary" section in our Regeneration page, or to the "Notes section in the same page?

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. I added the text. Is this acceptable?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration?type=revision&diff=7840946&oldid=7735808

 

[Arkenis]

sounds good.

 

[KLOL506]

Seen it already, looks good.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm on board with that.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the replies.

Does anybody else have any objections?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I do not have any objections or supplementary observations to offer at this juncture.

 

[Bobsican]

I have to agree with ImmortalDread on death being a quite subjective thing, especially when we get to characters that technically weren't alive to begin with, relying on how a verse portrays it will lead to a ton of inconsistencies out of that, and so it'd be best for us to at least define this area for our purposes if we'll be going on this path.

 

[Antvasima]

So the text that I added wasn't sufficient? We need to do further work here? What do you have in mind in that case?

 

[ImmortalDread]

So the text that I added wasn't sufficient? We need to do further work here? What do you have in mind in that case?

I actually addressed this but given how Pain_12 said this is quite obvious, I left it as it is because I did not want to create a drama regarding this (and I was afraid I may derail in this thread)

 

[Arkenis]

I have to agree with ImmortalDread on death being a quite subjective thing, especially when we get to characters that technically weren't alive to begin with, relying on how a verse portrays it will lead to a ton of inconsistencies out of that, and so it'd be best for us to at least define this area for our purposes if we'll be going on this path.

If death is subjective, why would we not follow what the verse portrays as death? Giving it some definition would likely limit some verses.

 

[ImmortalDread]

In order to properly assess the extent of regeneration demonstrated by a given character, it is necessary to distinguish between those instances in which the character's physical form is preserved, either through the preservation of a non-physical aspect of their being such as the soul or consciousness, or through the regeneration of non-physical components of their body, and those in which the character's physical form is completely destroyed and subsequently reformed. The latter scenario, in which the character's entire physical form is disintegrated and subsequently reconstituted, is a necessary criterion for the characterization of regeneration as being at the level of divinity.

It should be noted that death can be a subjective concept, particularly when applied to characters that were not originally alive in the traditional sense. To avoid inconsistencies in our analysis, it is important to define this concept for our purposes. Accordingly, any instances of regeneration that do not meet this criterion will not be considered in our analysis of the godly level of regenerative capability.

Tho, in my unsaved draft I kinda addressed it ^^

 

[Bobsican]

If death is subjective, why would we not follow what the verse portrays as death? Giving it some definition would likely limit some verses.

For the same reason we have definitions for stuff like dimensions, danmaku and concepts for our purposes, a verse can use a term however they want, but we simply have a take on the matter for the sake of standards in the first place, which is evaluated by the context given over the mere use of a word, as much as we don't necessarily rate "omnipotent" characters as tier 0, or rate stuff named "Absolute Zero" as in such temperature, for example.

I also wouldn't say it limits verses, it turns a more appropiate stance to evaluate over users abusing the term "death" or similar being thrown around to exaggerate ratings, while also opening the gates for characters that aren't technically alive or that only have feats to derive from to being evaluated better.

Beyond that, currently I lean to ImmortalDread's draft, it'd be best to just evaluate the context case by case on this regard.

 

[Arkenis]

For the same reason we have definitions for stuff like dimensions, danmaku and concepts for our purposes, a verse can use a term however they want, but we simply have a take on the matter for the sake of standards in the first place, which is evaluated by the context given over the mere use of a word, as much as we don't necessarily rate "omnipotent" characters as tier 0, or rate stuff named "Absolute Zero" as in such temperature, for example.

I also wouldn't say it limits verses, it turns a more appropiate stance to evaluate over users abusing the term "death" or similar being thrown around to exaggerate ratings, while also opening the gates for characters that aren't technically alive or that only have feats to derive from to being evaluated better.

Beyond that, currently I lean to ImmortalDread's draft, it'd be best to just evaluate the context case by case on this regard.

The example you labeled are much less subjective though, dimensions are widely consistent across all of fiction to be meant as another space or subspace or alternate reality. It isn't subjective. Same as danmaku, a danmaku is a real world thing that isn't left up for much interpretation, there can be less complex ones but the general concept still is there.

I think context case by case is fine too, that's why I agree with death being a subjective matter across fiction.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The example you labeled are much less subjective though, dimensions are widely consistent across all of fiction to be meant as another space or subspace or alternate reality. It isn't subjective.

You meant it is “subjective”.

 

[Arkenis]

You meant it is “subjective”.

Uh I don't think. I'll try saying it differently.

I think dimensions are a less subjective term across a majority of fiction with it either referring to alternate spaces or higher realities such as 5d or 6d.

 

[Bobsican]

You're missing the point on that area, that's just an example, and even then not only is the idea proposed on my part made clear, "dimensions" can also be used to mean qualitative superiority, which is a common claim to do around the site, even if often inappropiate, but shows well that the mere use of a term isn't inherently compatible with our purposes.

 

[Arkenis]

You're missing the point on that area, that's just an example, and even then not only is the idea proposed on my part made clear, "dimensions" can also be used to mean qualitative superiority, which is a common claim to do around the site, even if often inappropiate, but shows well that the mere use of a term isn't inherently compatible with our purposes.

My point is that death is a much more subjective term compared to dimensions and is always case by case as is dimensions as you just proved.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima that should be good, I'll close this thread since it's finished.

 

[Antvasima]

Wait a little please.

Bobsican, did you want us to do something more here, and if so, what?

 

[ImmortalDread]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/death-and-regeneration.147237/

 

[Bobsican]

It may be best to move onto the next thread at this point, but I appreciate the reopening so those in this thread can refollow smoothly to the next thread, so yeah, this thread can be closed.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.