References, but we make them more credible in "The Real World" official profiles.

[H3110l12345I20]

^^^; (Permisssion given by Ant here)

I've been dying to do this for a while. While we have been going through with IRL verse pages with references of unwritten standards. I decided to set official standards in my blog here for 2 reasons.

1. To increased the credibility of our "The Real World" verse pages, especially the use of wikipedia as a source of information (anyone can change stuff on it).
2. The rise of realistic deepfakes can lead our current and future video/image scans to be very distrusted in the future if nothing is done to justify how realistic/credible they are.

More or less, I want feedback, and necessary changes if needed for what will be future standards for The Real World verse. And first and foremost, should we extend this standard to all real world profiles?

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Planck69

What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We most likely should be making more elaborate clarifications for us to look up certain updates or news with more scrutiny in the future until we can prove that a study has more consistent approval yeah.

 

[Flashlight237]

I personally agree with all of this, but I will pose a question that I think is very important for this. When posting citations, how does one go about posting things like ISBN links and such? For example, this profile on the Emu has a properly functioning ISBN link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Emu

Yet I had cases like this where ISBN, PMID, ISSN, etc. tags are randomly linked as wiki articles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Megalania

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Most of what's written in that blog should be common knowledge but sure, I don't really have an issue with the blog.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I personally agree with all of this, but I will pose a question that I think is very important for this. When posting citations, how does one go about posting things like ISBN links and such? For example, this profile on the Emu has a properly functioning ISBN link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Emu

Yet I had cases like this where ISBN, PMID, ISSN, etc. tags are randomly linked as wiki articles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Megalania

Replace stuff like "doi:10.1098/rsbl.2003.0095" with the link it's supposed to direct you to like any other source link (like "[(link) doi:10.1098/rsbl.2003.0095]" in the source code). That's a solution to my knowledge

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Professional bump.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Planck69

What do you think about this?

 

[Planck69]

I don't have any issues with the blog. Our reference standards for IRL could stand to be outlined and codified somewhere yeah.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

^^^; (Permisssion given by Ant here)

I've been dying to do this for a while. While we have been going through with IRL verse pages with references of unwritten standards. I decided to set official standards in my blog here for 2 reasons.

1. To increased the credibility of our "The Real World" verse pages, especially the use of wikipedia as a source of information (anyone can change stuff on it).
2. The rise of realistic deepfakes can lead our current and future video/image scans to be very distrusted in the future if nothing is done to justify how realistic/credible they are.

More or less, I want feedback, and necessary changes if needed for what will be future standards for The Real World verse. And first and foremost, should we extend this standard to all real world profiles?

To an extent, Wikipedia has become a fairly reliable source. I tested it once when this was mentioned a few years ago, and my edits were only marginally wrong- still, instantly removed (within minutes) and contacted by their staff. It can be changed by anyone in the same sense that VSBW can be changed by anyone, except their policing force is many leagues larger than our own.

This is not to say I disagree with using more direct sources where available, I just don't want to vilify the use of Wikipedia when it is, by basically all measures, an essentially accurate site in 99.99% of situations. I think your blog is very good and extremely sensible, so long as it is not actual standards that require us to use only said sources in all that we do. It is a fact that some of our questions will simply be too niche, and relying on, say, the posts of an individual whose title says "Professional Engineer" and little else on the matter. I simply don't believe it is possible, from our position, to guarantee not running into bias or some other issue.

Take the ideal when you can, scrap together what is possible with the non-ideal when you must. This is my position.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yeah I agree people overhate Wikipedia a lot. That being said since Wikipedia always provides citations for their information, we could always just go directly to the source at least most of the time.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm fine with the ops proposal as well and agree to the point bambu has made above.

Wikipedia typically uses many references for their sources sited at the bottom of most pages all of which should be valid in usage

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I vaguely recall some rare instances of wikipedia's information not matching what's said in the reference. Though how often does that happen, and how extensive are their countermeasures here?

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah I agree people overhate Wikipedia a lot. That being said since Wikipedia always provides citations for their information, we could always just go directly to the source at least most of the time.

I think that this seems like a good idea.

Also, welcome back to our community. I haven't seen you for a long while.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

So far, staff here have little problem with the blog. So how should we implement this blog into the IRL verse as a standard?

The only options I could think of right now is to slap it somewhere in the "power of the verse" or "summary" section of the real world official page as a note, or put it in some custom rules section for the real world verse. Any other ideas would be appreciated, though I'd recommend either of the first 2.

 

[Flashlight237]

So far, staff here have little problem with the blog. So how should we implement this blog into the IRL verse as a standard?

The only options I could think of right now is to slap it somewhere in the "power of the verse" or "summary" section of the real world official page as a note, or put it in some custom rules section for the real world verse. Any other ideas would be appreciated, though I'd recommend either of the first 2.

Personally, I think this should be implemented into the References page if not done already, but I think an explanation section (I mean the Godzilla verse page had its own explanation section, so heck with it) works too.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Personally, I think this should be implemented into the References page if not done already, but I think an explanation section (I mean the Godzilla verse page had its own explanation section, so heck with it) works too.

It's a really good argument, however, the blog is verse specific in a sense. I.e. built for researching stuff in IRL, not the majority of fictional francises on-site.

I'm in more favor of a form of "rules" section of "the real world" verse page now. And I do have an idea outline of it (unless someone has an even better idea of it).

 

[Flashlight237]

It's a really good argument, however, the blog is verse specific in a sense. I.e. built for researching stuff in IRL, not the majority of fictional francises on-site.

I'm in more favor of a form of "rules" section of "the real world" verse page now. And I do have an idea outline of it (unless someone has an even better idea of it).

Lay it on us.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

This section should be between the "Power of the Verse" and Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section of the page. I decided to be minimal and outline basic verse specific rules.vvv

==Verse-specific Rules==
The real world doesn't break the laws of physics or thermodynamics. Unless the scaling is based off of overwhelming by raw power, treated realistically and within common sense, battleboarding concepts like power scaling, calc stacking, et cetera don't apply to the real world.
*Conversely, if a real life entity that's traditionally and by common sense, far weaker in raw power and yet manages to harm another entity that should be able to have far superior raw power feats and durability, the scaling is unreliable.
*Follow the [[User blog:H3110l12345I20/Standards for the Reliability, Trustworthiness and Evaluation of Sources for The Real World On-site|standards for real world page references]], as references are mandatory for new pages.
*Be more realistic and careful when scaling entities around tiers '''Below Average Human level''' to '''Street level''', as the tiering system becomes inconsistent due to the tiering system being oversimplified.
**Examples:
***Humans [[User blog:H3110l12345I20/Average Human Strongest Attacks Page#This is a stomp!|having '''Street level''' energy output]] on their legs and gravitational potential energy when anyone is capable of injuring a person with a full punch. And yet, athletes can exert below this energy output.
***[[Gray Wolf|Wolves]] [[User blogarlingAurora/✦ The Real World — Some calcs#Wolf jumping 12 ft(force)|jumping and withstanding '''Street level''' energy]] when their usual strikes (or bites in this case) [[User blogarlingAurora/✦ The Real World — Some calcs#Crushing Otters Skulls|are around '''Human level''' to '''Athlete level''']] and they can get easily thrown around by a heavier [[Jaguar (Real World)|jaguar]].

^^^; make sure to replace the smily emojis with a colon and upper case "d" in the source. Not to mention that the note in the "power of the verse" section is technically being moved.

I also outlined basic verse-based rules for scaling IRL animals here in this spoiler, but since that's off topic here, it can be discussed back in the IRL animals CRT, another staff discussion thread, or the like.

Spoiler: IRL animal verse scaling rules (below and in the scaling rules section)

===Scaling Real World Animals===
Arguments based off of the aforementioned standards (such as credible raw power feats and statements), the typical size, weight, and pound-by-pound strength of the animals should be used as a basis for their tiers.
*While real life animal profiles can take into account the heaviest/largest or lightest/smallest adults of a species, the animal profiles should have their average weights and sizes scaled first. As they're supposed to be a profile for the general species.
*Due to factors like differences in gender, breeds, subspecies, et cetera, even the average sizes of a species will vary between the smallest and largest average sizes of themselves. Unless context shows that the feat is beyond the average adult size, low and high-end strengths of the species varying from "X" to "Y" rating, lifting strength on average are allowed on the profile.
*If a species is more consistently shown at a specific tier or has been shown to regularly use and/or withstand their full kinetic energy running at full speed, scaling animals based off of their kinetic energy at their top travel, swimming, flight, et cetera speed is fallicious. As they would get severely injured running into an immovable wall like [[African Buffalo|african buffalo]].

 

[Flashlight237]

While it makes sense for the most part, size isn't everything. Other factors like armor (like in crustaceans and armadillos) come into play. I have recently made a calc for sea turtles of all things and managed to find 10-C+ certainties and 10-A extrapolations for mollusk shells based on turtle bite force. It's yet to be eval'd, however.: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ife_Calc:_Loggerhead_Sea_Turtles_and_Mollusks

And yes, I made sure to only calculate based on minimums since durability in reality isn't "how strong is the attack that hurt someone?" but rather "what's the most they can withstand?"