- 10,404
- 3,871
Plot armor
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Rebirth Flash (Five Forces) vs Pre-Genesis Sonic (Ultra)
- Thread starter JohnCenaNation
- Start date
- 79
- 0
No Im dead serious his fatehax are like that
- 79
- 0
The problem is that his fatehax is (apperantally) 5D
- 9,096
- 9,399
Sonic Franchise: Archie Sonic Plot Armor
vsbattles.fandom.com
JohnCenaNation
He/Him- 3,220
- 296
- Thread starter
- #46
Well since this battle thread was bumped, I might as well simply get involved then.
- 9,226
- 3,367
yea sonic is basically walking plot armour
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
1. Prove how it's 5-D
2. Sonic hasn't lost a match in his books?
3. Isn't this just some plot armour that makes MCs win battles in their works? Such shit ain't perfect.
I read through it and most of the scans plus all these seem like excuses since they lost to him thought reality favours sonic to win it's not always everytime even according to that blog, plus he was protected by the 1 billion ring aura and sonic positive aura was mentioned in his super sonic form. All these just shows reality favours sonic more due to having more connection to chaos energy.Sonic Franchise: Archie Sonic Plot Armor
The blog above even said things the scan didn't say but who cares, reality favours sonic to win due to having more chaos energy IMO this is similar to superman case but who cares.
Since sonic has an advantage through this not like he controls fate itself, what does he start with?
- 5,879
- 1,070
Sonic can still lose fights, this fate manipulation is overrated
- 24,355
- 25,278
In this state? Probably yeah. I doubt he's gonna wanna teach Sonic about tragedy or something when he doesn't even know Sonic.
- 79
- 0
Will answer after I sleep.
- 79
- 0
Also rq remind me how you can go from 3 to 4 to 5, 6 etc
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
His probably gonna see sonic as a mutation and plan to kill him instantly and knowing sonic he can also say ***** to piss him off.
Also Zoom has passive speed steal.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Just saw this.
If both are bloodlusted then nice how does bloodlusted sonic fights? Hunter is normally bloodlusted but toys with his opponents when he has plans for them in mind if he dosen't..he simply kills or gets rid of them also win condition is by death and hunter has passive speed steal so how does sonic counter his heart being removed or hunter killing him in a point in time?
Hunter blinks in and out of the timestream casually even during combat at times other speedsters don't even see him including Barry who got blitzed multiple times by hunter in both post crisis and rebirth.
Plus both have Knowledge on each other so this is gonna be interesting, waiting for sonic fans.
- 9,226
- 3,367
Yea, but he can’t lose permanently, u can still incap him and stuff but he effectively can’t die
- 9,226
- 3,367
it works on beings who’ve merged with 5th dimensional structures
Not permanently, though he can be incapped
Yes, like I he’s a walking plot inconsistency
His 1 billionth ring aura did not protect him from saving him from an evil super sonic clone being moments away from killing him and just randomly dissipating, it did NOT protect him from super scourge just so happening to lose his powers moments away from putting down sonic, it did NOT protect him from getting the life beaten out of him by the egg beater only to get back up moments later and defeat the thing fully
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Can I see the scans. Anyways Hunter has Acasuality type 2 that's resistant to precognition and fate manipulation.
Incapped in what way particularly?
Okay ain't consistent, nice.
I thought his fate manipulation was meant for him not to be killed or defeated? Cause everything still seems like some protagonist shit in most stories, anyways let's leave fate manipulation since Hunter has Acasuality type 2.
- 79
- 0
Im guessing hunter is inmune to reality warping?
- 9,226
- 3,367
sonics worked on people with layered type 4 aca so it just bypasses it
the scan is already on the profile, mogul needs to wait out sonic to properly defeat him, implying not even his chaos force state can stop him because of sonics fate hax in the way
putting him to sleep, sealing him etc
its inconsistent in a way that the story just ***** with logic just to not make sonic lose, that's what i meant
- 79
- 0
Quick question, does this mean that the speed force isn't as strong as the chaos force?
- 9,226
- 3,367
the difference is thats just theorizing for main characters in stories, sonic actually has that
- 9,226
- 3,367
pretty sure the speed force is like 6d here so its currently stronger then the chaos force
- 79
- 0
Is the chaos forcé not 6D? And rq could you tell me what differentiates 4d, 5D, and 6D?
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
I haven't checked but how does sonic reality warping work?
His fate manipulation is on him not on them, it helps him have good luck or some kind of supernatural luck in battle and even it is consistent. Hunter exists in his own personal timeline and manipulates it how he wants, has sonic fate manipulation work on someone who exists in his personal timeline? If it hasn't that's outside the question and the fact his fate manipulation isn't to manipulate the fate of others but a supernatural luck to aid him. Besides it's stated to be Limited
Hunter also has sealing also and 6-D infact and can I see scans of sonic sleep manipulation?
So you're telling me sonic hasn't lost a battle throughout that comic book?
Chaos force is 5-D, speed force is 6-D even higher, but 6-D for now.
I've stated Hunter first wincon which is passive speed steal and in character even in his profile he gives his targets quick and painless death.
- 5,879
- 1,070
Evidence
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
so how does sonic resist his passive speed steal? Plus despite both having knowledge on each other according to OP... hunter has retrocognition which is a better advantage to let him know how sonic abilities work if he used them in the past.
- 79
- 0
Alr the speed steal argument is here. Gimme a second to pull up my arguement
- 79
- 0
Firstly we need to know how speed steal works. It doesn't just take the concept of speed from anyone. It takes their kinetic energy. There are 3 ways that I will explain that will make it not work. Kinetic energy is converted by potential energy, which we know Sonic has infinite (if I am wrong read the next paragraph, and potential energy aka stored energy includes the chaos energy stored within him, so like chaos control.) So even if he took the speed from Sonic, he would just have to take more energy. But can Wally even take that much? Wally West may be an omega hero but he cannot take infinite energy. Such amounts of energy would be too much. It's like when you over charge a battery. Too much and le kaboom. Also if you say Wally has infinite energy, it also wouldn't work. Can't take infinite from something. And Infinite + infinite doesn't really exist.
BUT WAIT you say. SONIC DOESNT HAVE INFINITE ENERGY you yell at me. Well I don't know if he does or doesn't, but guess what. DOESNT MATTER AHAHAHAHA. Speed steal allows the user to enhance their own movements by compounding the stolen kinetic energy with their own. The problem with that is that Chaos Control can also has an ability to reshape matter. This is especially easy for Sonic. Wally can control the kinetic energy of anything he touches, but Sonic is able to put a block on that due to freely changing the molecules of anything, including energy conversion. (And also energy manipulation.) Wally’s speed steal would have no effect.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
I don't know what you're on but hunter speed steal isn't like Wally abd Barry done through the speed force, his is by still force though he can also do speed force speed steal of kinetic energy and Sonic can't resist that, it took Barry a large amount of speed force energy to counter still force and chaos force is just 5-D. Plus even if hunter wants to use speed force method of kinetic energy absorption what proof do you have of sonic kinetic energy being infinite?
What proof do you have of chaos energy stored in sonic to be infinite?
This battle ain't about Wally but Hunter read the OP again, and Wally speed steal can work on Barry if he needs to as he has more connection to speed force than Barry as even Barry had nigh-infinite stamina with speed force. If Wally can absorb 6-D energy fine what makes 5-D energy more special? Plus I need proof chaos energy in Sonic is infinite and also battle is about "HUNTER" not Wally.
What proof do you have of chaos energy stored in sonic to be infinite?
This battle ain't about Wally but Hunter read the OP again, and Wally speed steal can work on Barry if he needs to as he has more connection to speed force than Barry as even Barry had nigh-infinite stamina with speed force. If Wally can absorb 6-D energy fine what makes 5-D energy more special? Plus I need proof chaos energy in Sonic is infinite and also battle is about "HUNTER" not Wally.
I don't understand you here, are you joking or serious in this thread? Besides if you don't know if he has infinite kinetic energy why mention it? If you don't really have anything reasonable to say let sonicspood continue then you spectate, cause you now seem confused and immature.
That's for Wally with speed force(though hunter can) but Hunter passive speed steal is done by still force you'd need a force like speed force or greater to counter it. I don't know how reshaping matter is a counter for still force passive speed steal, again Hunter not Wally read the OP, imagine believing energy manipulation is a counter for Wally speed steal, you're joking right? Anyways debate reasonably and battle is HUNTER not WALLY.
- 79
- 0
I had made this for Wally, I thought it would be similar
- 9,226
- 3,367
I literally just mentioned the cases
JohnCenaNation
He/Him- 3,220
- 296
- Thread starter
- #75
It's crazy of how there were arguments for Sonic only winning in the beginning, and now the arguments for Flash popped up which by the way now officially even up the playing field to make sure this fight isn't a stomp.
- 9,226
- 3,367
Bro if ur one with a higher spatial dimension ur going to inherently be outside of a timeline
, and it being limited means nothing in this context
?? What scans? I’m saying sleep manip is a proper way of incapacitating sonic since that’s technically not fully killing him
Not permanently yes. The authors made sure of this as they literally cannot make sonic lose cuz they aren’t allowed to (it’s illegal for them to, yes I’m being deadass) You can literally go read the whole series, you will not see sonic in the main timeline lose to a enemy permanently.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
In Hunter's voice: I am the Fastest man alive.
Yeah the match up wasn't really a stomp.
Not outside have a personal timeline that's just yours and which you control and outside of the main timeline. higher dimension is separate from normal timeline is normal but this is a character having a timeline just to himself and can manipulate it how he sees fit has nothing to do with the general timeline or higher dimensions, it's distinct literally as DC has higher dimensions and separate dimensions but hunter case is special.Bro if ur one with a higher spatial dimension ur going to inherently be outside of a timeline
?? What scans? I’m saying sleep manip is a proper way of incapacitating sonic since that’s technically not fully killing him
Not permanently yes. The authors made sure of this as they literally cannot make sonic lose cuz they aren’t allowed to (it’s illegal for them to, yes I’m being deadass) You can literally go read the whole series, you will not see sonic in the main timeline lose to a enemy permanently.
Okay hunter has other possible abilities that would work like apart from having passive speed steal due to still force he has sealing also with 6-D construct which he can just BFR sonic into.
If we look at it from a reasonable point of view what sonic has is meant to be supernatural luck instead of fate manipulation, he dosen't manipulate fate himself or that of others just supernatural luck like that of most protagonist, also I wasn't talking of permanently obviously, no protagonist loses permanently they always jump up and find a way to win, I can't imply permanently as then it wouldn't even make sense. My point is has sonic never lost a battle even momentarily? After this thread I will look into sonic comics thanks.
- 9,226
- 3,367
??? this isnt even true, not every protag always wins in the end lmao
and if u think it isn't fate hax idc just make a revision for it instead of complaining here
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
I'm sure i said most, some protagonist die at the end of the show obv.
I will once i start reading on Archie sonic.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 7,977
- 6,199
Sonic has a resistance or a direct counter to nearly everything relevant that Thawne has on his profile from what I can tell.
The biggest hurdle here is passive Speed Steal, which is utterly countered by passive Speed Amplification that Ultra Sonic had from the Master Emerald. And it will most definitely outpace the Speed Steal as well due to being an exponential increase rather than a linear one. Omniscient narration states Sonic moved "faster than ever dreamt possible" just a little bit into when he transformed into Ultra via the Super Emerald.
Sonic retains his Life Force via the One Billionth Ring so no Life Steal, Phasing and other things won't be lethal because of Regeneration, no time travel shenanigans due to Sonic's Acausality Type 4, thought-based teleportation to counter the applications of the Still Force, etc. Fate Manipulation is not only one of the more tame things in this fight, it's something Sonic doesn't even need here. His Chaos Energy will tear Thawne apart at the conceptual level while Thawne himself has no reliable way of putting the hedgehog down in any direct way afaik.
The biggest hurdle here is passive Speed Steal, which is utterly countered by passive Speed Amplification that Ultra Sonic had from the Master Emerald. And it will most definitely outpace the Speed Steal as well due to being an exponential increase rather than a linear one. Omniscient narration states Sonic moved "faster than ever dreamt possible" just a little bit into when he transformed into Ultra via the Super Emerald.
Sonic retains his Life Force via the One Billionth Ring so no Life Steal, Phasing and other things won't be lethal because of Regeneration, no time travel shenanigans due to Sonic's Acausality Type 4, thought-based teleportation to counter the applications of the Still Force, etc. Fate Manipulation is not only one of the more tame things in this fight, it's something Sonic doesn't even need here. His Chaos Energy will tear Thawne apart at the conceptual level while Thawne himself has no reliable way of putting the hedgehog down in any direct way afaik.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
