Rebirth Flash (Five Forces) vs Pre-Genesis Sonic (Ultra)

[ElixirBlue]

Evidence

The entire story of Archie Sonic.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The entire story of Archie Sonic.

How do you know its because of the fate manipulation?

 

[ElixirBlue]

How do you know its because of the fate manipulation?

[Edit: A theory of my own "how do I know" from what I have gone over in the material for further FateHax details]

Sonic's 4th wall-self from issue 1, and the Editor Justin Gabrie made an avatar of himself into the comic, appeared outside of the 'Off Panel' corner into a main book structure. The first thing 4th Wall Sonic does is establishing/referencing issue #72 as a canon past event in a casual manner.

4th Wall Sonic and the Editor, are constructing main book Sonic without the 4th wall to be fated to win the story. The janitor remarks this is how they write Sonic's stories, indicating they have been doing this for a long time judging by how tired she is before entering.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

[I must preface this is my own "how do I know" that I have gone over in the material for further FateHax details and not the wiki's. Yet.]

Sonic's 4th wall-self from issue 1, and the Editor Justin Gabrie made an avatar of himself into the comic, appeared outside of the 'Off Panel' corner into a main book structure. The first thing 4th Wall Sonic does is establishing/referencing issue #72 as a canon past event in a casual manner.

4th Wall Sonic and the Editor, are constructing main book Sonic without the 4th wall to be fated to win the story. The janitor remarks this is how they write Sonic's stories, indicating they have been doing this for a long time judging by how tired she is before entering.

Those scans are just saying the editor and this 4th wall sonic write the story, not that they construct him to be fated to win the story. That's also not a power for sonic himself

 

[Vondoom]

Sonic has a resistance or a direct counter to nearly everything relevant that Thawne has on his profile from what I can tell.

The biggest hurdle here is passive Speed Steal, which is utterly countered by passive Speed Amplification that Ultra Sonic had from the Master Emerald. And it will most definitely outpace the Speed Steal as well due to being an exponential increase rather than a linear one. Omniscient narration states Sonic moved "faster than ever dreamt possible" just a little bit into when he transformed into Ultra via the Super Emerald.

Sonic retains his Life Force via the One Billionth Ring so no Life Steal, Phasing and other things won't be lethal because of Regeneration, no time travel shenanigans due to Sonic's Acausality Type 4, thought-based teleportation to counter the applications of the Still Force, etc. Fate Manipulation is not only one of the more tame things in this fight, it's something Sonic doesn't even need here. His Chaos Energy will tear Thawne apart at the conceptual level while Thawne himself has no reliable way of putting the hedgehog down in any direct way afaik.

Hunter not thawne again.

Accelerated Development (Passive; Abilities. Ultra Sonic's transformation gives him complete mastery over the elements and the skills to use it accordingly without prior training or knowledge on the matter)
Continuously Rising Power (Had used a Super Emerald to progress through his transformations, and was constantly getting faster and stronger with the amount of Chaos Energy he was being exposed to)

Utterly false the speed steal works on characters with 6-D energy and draw their energy from there a master Emerald ain't gonna cut it as it can make you immobile for all eternity even so, if the speed force couldn't which passively gives Barry his speed till he used an insurmountable amount of it and stated to every bit also to counter why would a Master Emerald work?

Accelerated Development (Passive; Physical Stats, Intelligence, Abilities. The Speed Force allows him to take in and process information at an accelerated rate. Felt himself changing with each passing moment, to the point where he could think so fast that he is able to hold two separate thoughts at once[6]), Before you say shit like passive as an Excuse, Speed force users passively gain their abilities from it and an draw it more if they need to in dire situations and speed force is 6-D and could barely counter another 6-D force the still force which was hidden behind the force barrier with the other forces.
Sonic dosen't resist or counter till you bring proof he has countered something like this and also it being 6-D.
Sonic moving than he ever went is null here and has nothing to do except you wanna move into speed and trust me, using statement like "Faster than he ever was or dreamt" is a normal Tuesday shit to the flashes.

Sonic with 1 billion ring can retain his life force that's cool
Life Steal (Could possibly drain the life of others with the Still Force[18]) Hunter life Steal is done by still force which is 6-D. For being on the same dimensional level as the speed force and it had to be hidden with the other forces. Sonic ain't countering a 6-D life absorption.
How does sonic regeneration work? I've seen him knocked out by little attacks, I've seen sonic battles and he hardly ever uses teleportation in battle or to escape when caught. Besides how does sonic fights when bloodlusted?
I just read on Chaos Energy having (concept manipulation type 1)please explain how his gonna use that to destroy hunter cause on profile the effects are more on reality also can I see it's use against other characters.

As I've mentioned except sonic has 6-D life retainment and passive Speed Steal counter, he ain't resisting any except you bring proof sonic attacks are 6-D.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Those scans are just saying the editor and this 4th wall sonic write the story, not that they construct him to be fated to win the story. That's also not a power for sonic himself

In that issue 72, 4th Wall Sonic describes main book Sonic has a power to “dig deep and find the inner strength to overcome it”.

In response to paralyzation, which 4th Wall Sonic acted out would effect the main book version, 4th Wall Sonic describes by finding inner strength, main book Sonic would beat the Combot and overcome the paralyzation effecting him.

This “inner strength” 4th Wall Sonic mentions seems to be perseverance to overcome odds, which is consistent with Sonic’s character for the entire book. Sonic doesn’t lose if he put his mind to it, as Sonic himself notes Eggman’s mistake in issue 175 was telling him everyone is still alive and therefore can be saved.

 

[Vondoom]

Also I just read and the still force works even on Mister myxptlk who is High-1C. And hunter should have teleportation by sage force also.

The forces shouldn't be 6-D but higher since speed force energy was compared to the source wall, further proof it can affect even Mister myxptlk. I might work on that in the future.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

In that issue 72, 4th Wall Sonic describes main book Sonic has a power to “dig deep and find the inner strength to overcome it”.

In response to paralyzation, which 4th Wall Sonic acted out would effect the main book version, 4th Wall Sonic describes by finding inner strength, main book Sonic would beat the Combot and overcome the paralyzation effecting him.

This “inner strength” 4th Wall Sonic mentions seems to be perseverance to overcome odds, which is consistent with Sonic’s character for the entire book. Sonic doesn’t lose if he put his mind to it, as Sonic himself notes Eggman’s mistake in issue 175 was telling him everyone is still alive and therefore can be saved.

Finding the inner strength to overcome things is like statistics amplification. This is just persevering, has nothing to do with "plot manipulation that makes you unable to die"

 

[ShakeResounding]

Hunter not thawne again.

Oops, my b

[SNIP] he ain't resisting any except you bring proof sonic attacks are 6-D.

Wow, had no idea there was even 6-D stuff in the profile and I looked at it up and down for a minute lmao. If the characters are getting a year of prep, which obviously allows Hunter to get his 6-D stuff, then how is this thread not a mismatch?

 

[Vondoom]

Oops, my b

Wow, had no idea there was even 6-D stuff in the profile and I looked at it up and down for a minute lmao. If the characters are getting a year of prep, which obviously allows Hunter to get his 6-D stuff, then how is this thread not a mismatch?

The other forces aren't stated to be by prep on profile wouldn't really even make sense, **** I never even knew they had a year of prep time.

Not really a mismatch since some of sonic hax can work on hunter while hunter hax have more Potency than sonic could resist, it would just boil down to what they start with or who is gonna kill each other first after a 1 year prep, John stated victory by death alone.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Finding the inner strength to overcome things is like statistics amplification. This is just persevering, has nothing to do with "plot manipulation that makes you unable to die"

What a blatant strawman, that's not at all what Elixir was saying in his post. I think

 

[ElixirBlue]

Finding the inner strength to overcome things is like statistics amplification. This is just persevering, has nothing to do with "plot manipulation that makes you unable to die"

What a blatant strawman, that's not at all what Elixir was saying in his post. I think

The comic never said or implied Sonic's "inner strength" increased his stats, only that "digging deep and finding inner strength" is a guarantee solution for Sonic to win, which takes his enemies off guard (ex. the Editor acting out a robot being surprised by Sonic's "inner strength"). What "inner strength" does in context with main book Sonic's character during the story of Archie Sonic in any other direction than "Time for Sonic to win" is unclear.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I feel like Flash vs Sonic became the new Superman vs Goku in the level of toxic. I just hope this fight doesn't result in any sort of ban.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I feel like Flash vs Sonic became the new Superman vs Goku in the level of toxic.

Sonic vs Flash has been the speedster debate for years, even getting a Death Battle. And if nobody on this wiki cared enough to fling shit then, at the peak of internet salt, there's no conceivable way it ends in a ban now.

I still believe this is a mismatch, however. Restrict Hunter to 5-D and Sonic clears, allow 6-D and Flash wipes.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The comic never said or implied Sonic's "inner strength" increased his stats, only that "digging deep and finding inner strength" is a guarantee solution for Sonic to win, which takes his enemies off guard (ex. the Editor acting out a robot being surprised by Sonic's "inner strength"). What "inner strength" does in context with main book Sonic's character during the story of Archie Sonic in any other direction than "Time for Sonic to win" is unclear.

I can do that too

 

[Vondoom]

Restrict Hunter to 5-D

I don't think this is possible or allowed.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I don't think this is possible or allowed.

Yes it is

 

[Vondoom]

Hunter has no 5-D key.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't think this is possible or allowed.

Yeah, you can't restrict to 5-D if they don't even have 5-D stuff.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

B
U
M
P

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Yes it is

If there is no key then it is not possible.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Anyone else?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Bumping this again in 2023, let's go!

 

[StekFence]

Well, seems 6d flash clears

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I wonder if I should start the voting now since we are at the second page?