Re:Zero Top/High Tiers Upgrade

[Zabazab]

This calc has been accepted, so now it's time to look at how this should affect the characters who scale to it. Thanks to @PhantomØ4 for calcing the feat.

• Reinhard, Satella, Reid, Volcanica, Sekhmet, and Cecilus should have their High 6-C values changed to 5-C.
• Reinhard and Reid should have their 6-C values changed to High 6-A.
• Ram, Sekhmet, and Beast of the End Puck should have their 7-B values changed to 6-B.
• Ram's 5th Shackle should get a "6-B, possibly/likely High 6-A+" rating.

I'd also like to suggest downscaling specifically Roswaal's trump card Six-Fold Magic to Beast of the End Puck, due to them pushing each other to the limit with their respective trump cards, and Roswaal specifically mentioning his inability to use Six-Fold Magic as a reason why he couldn't allow Puck to use his Starbeast form.

Covered in soot, Emilia was indignant as she yelled at Puck and the man, neither of whom showed any signs of remorse.

They had strayed quite some distance from her home, and were now in the vicinity of the ‘Zig-zagging Woods’ in the eastern region of Elior Forest. But the area had already changed so drastically that it would be hard to call it that anymore, perhaps she even ought to hurry up and change the name on her map to the ‘Bristly Wasteland’.

“But eeeeeven so, this is the first time in a long while that anyone has managed to push me to my limit in a battle of magic. Against my better judgement, I forgot all about stopping and went so far as to use my trump card.”

“That goes for both of us. The last one to make go as far as to use my Star Beast form was one of the Four Greats, Melakuera. It would be no idle boast to say you possess power on par with the Four Greats.”

To make matters worse, the two in question completely ignored Emilia’s anger and were starting to get along. Even though they should have used up all of their willpower and stamina, they showed no signs of this whatsoever. - Bond of Ice

It cannot be, thought Roswaal in shock. But even as he doubted it, the aura swelled larger. Mowing down the trees and crushing the forest-turned-ash underfoot was a majestic creature so enormous that it seemed to reach the heavens. Its gargantuan frame, boasting fearsome fangs and claws, seemed on par with a small mountain.

Astral Transformation—this was the nightmarish trump card of Puck the Great Spirit, known as the Beast of the End, one of the Four Great Spirits, and the one who destroyed Melakuera the Arbiter long ago. Not allowing him to play that card was one of Roswaal’s victory conditions.

For certain reasons, Roswaal was currently unable to employ his own trump card—sixfold magic. If he had to face Puck at full strength, his odds of winning would quickly crumble, and he would most likely wind up being overwhelmed in short order. - Volume 15

Additionally Reinhard's, Reid's, and Puck's range should be increased to Thousands of Kilometers.


This is where things get more complicated, base Puck's 6-C feat was done while on his Mana Period, during which he has an overflowing volume of Mana which may suggest he was capable of feats beyond what he could normally do.

Back in Elior, Puck had his Mana Period around twice a year, as he could release Mana wherever he pleased and used it regularly for hunting for Emilia etc. Since he now lives in civilization, Puck can't release his Mana so freely and ends up filling his Od so quickly that it was full less than a month after he fought Elsa, leading to the events of Memory Snow/Tanpenshuu 2.

However on the other hand, Puck had already relieved the majority of his Mana Period by dropping the Mansion's temperature to -20°/-30° C for a few days, and then making it snow over the local area for the mansion and nearby village to enjoy, only then using "the last of [his] Mana" to perform his 6-C feat.

So two options are to simply make base Puck and those that scale to his magic 6-C, or to have a rating like "7-B, 6-C by using all his Mana at once". Neither are contradicted as far as I know, so we'll just need to decide which is more likely.

Exact changes will be decided through discussion, so please give your opinion on this topic, thank you.

 

[Robo432343]

This calc has been accepted

are you sure?? DMUA said something about the calc

 

[Zabazab]

are you sure?? DMUA said something about the calc

Phantom said it was accepted, and looking at DMUA's comment it seems more so that they're confused as to why the assumption would be that the clouds part at the same time the sword is swung (which is understandable).

They were most likely simultaneous due to the the scan saying the sky split at the instant he swung the sword, then the moment after the swing reached it's end the world was restored.

If it's not okay I can just change the values in the OP to the lowest end.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Man.
I don't know how to worded what i want to say

 

[Random-Helper323]

DMUA said the first calculation was fine, but questioned the sword calculation. This revision thread seems a bit premature.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I did mean the low end. Yes. I don't have any contentions with the high end.

 

[Zabazab]

Edited then, unless something changes that makes the high end fine to use.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

@DMUA had contentions with the cloud calc at a closer look so not sure if that can be used, additionally from memory cloud calcs are supposed to be quite problematic and constantly in revision so I would prefer more input from calcs members regarding it, and from looking at the calc DT calculator wasn't used to find the cloud mass no?

 

[Zabazab]

Actually, Phantom is now looking to make an edit to the Beast of the End storm calc, which would change the Reinhard cloud-clearing calc as a result, so this can be put on pause for a little bit.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Following

 

[DeusExMachine001]

By no means , I am a Supporter or oppenent in Re:Zero compared to people here I literally have no knowledge but thousands of kilometers with what ...?

If Reinhard strike literally affect thousands of kilometers wouldn't be capital completely destroyed unlike being recreated like in the novel? [ Matter Nuke ]

 

[Zabazab]

If Reinhard strike literally affect thousands of kilometers wouldn't be capital completely destroyed unlike being recreated like in the novel? [ Matter Nuke ]

His sword swings would be thousands of kiliometers. Everyone was already dead for thousands of kilometers, and so he both destroyed and restored the frozen world simultaneously.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

His sword swings would be thousands of kiliometers. Everyone was already dead for thousands of kilometers, and so he both destroyed and restored the frozen world simultaneously.

Everybody else died too but only non-living beings created again ?

 

[Zabazab]

Everybody else died too but only non-living beings created again ?

I doubt he can recreate people or animals, yes. Restoring plant life is within his scope though.

If you have more questions not directly relevant to proposed scaling I'd recommend asking in the main Re:Zero discussion thread, as to not lead this one off-topic.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Everybody else died too but only non-living beings created again ?

if you die in RZ then you cant be revived because your soul is instnatly sent to Od Laguna and Reinhard didnt know about puck rampage till much later

 

[Fezzih_007]

if you die in RZ then you cant be revived

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I doubt he can recreate people or animals, yes. Restoring plant life is within his scope though.

If you have more questions not directly relevant to proposed scaling I'd recommend asking in the main Re:Zero discussion thread, as to not lead this one off-topic.

oh yeah he should have life/biological manipulation for that

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I disagree with the timeframe of the sword calc.

 

[Phoenks]

I disagree with the timeframe of the sword calc.

Why? Even DMUA was okay with this after the source was provided.

The entirety of the affects on the world are between the beginning and end of his slash.

Unless you think an FTL character is slicing well below average human speeds, it wouldn't make sense to say the timeframe is any lower than that.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Why? Even DMUA was okay with this after the source was provided.

Just because a calc member is ok with something doesn’t mean it’s accurate.

The entirety of the affects on the world are between the beginning and end of his slash.

Is that stated? In the scans I seen, nothing state that everything was dispersed the very moment his arm swung.
I disagree because we have no reason to believe everything was dispersed at the same time he swung his sword, that makes no sense.

Unless you think an FTL character is slicing well below average human speeds, it wouldn't make sense to say the timeframe is any lower than that.

This argument has never been valid when arguing vs wiki calcs.

 

[Zabazab]

Is that stated? In the scans I seen, nothing state that everything was dispersed the very moment his arm swung.
I disagree because we have no reason to believe everything was dispersed at the same time he swung his sword, that makes no sense.

The sky was split in a single flash, and as he reached the conclusion of his slash the world was restored. This would mean the actual feat (moving the clouds) occured during the swing, as the restoration of the frozen world occurred as the slash ended.

But again, the Absolute Zero storm & the sky-splitting feat will be redone. Base Puck's High 6-C feat will remain the same however.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

The sky was split in a single flash, and as he reached the conclusion of his slash the world was restored. This would mean the actual feat (moving the clouds) occured during the swing, as the restoration of the frozen world occurred as the slash ended.

But again, the Absolute Zero storm & the sky-splitting feat will be redone. Base Puck's High 6-C feat will remain the same however.

I change my opinion then. I agree with it

 

[BoastJr]

hmm this still wasn't added yet? huh...

well its very simple and straighforward so yeah hard agree

so..

sigh Reid soloes..

although I personally hate cloud calcs

 

[Zabazab]

Bumping this

 

[ZillertheBucko]

disagree FRA

 

[Phoenks]

disagree FRA

I'm in your house

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I'm in your house

Save me, Boros man!

 

[Zabazab]

Hard man van ashtray negs sorry

 

[Phoenks]

@DarkDragonMedeus
@Elizhaa
@Celestial_Pegasus

The cursed fate of novel threads... no one ever comes.

Could you look over this, please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP proposals look good.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Phantom updated the calc, but has a calc member relooked at it? Doesn't look like that to me.

Excluding that the scaling is fine, and specifically i support the 7-B, High 6-C by using all his Mana at once, option for Puck.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also support 7-B, High 6-C by using all his Mana at once for Puck as the better option; the rest seem fine.

 

[Zabazab]

Phantom updated the calc, but has a calc member relooked at it? Doesn't look like that to me.

Ultimately decided that trying to get a distance from the Old Mansion to Astrea Mansion would create too many assumptions. This low-end distance to the Capital is fine I think.

The calc & values used are completely unchanged.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

This can now be added right?

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah, 3 staff agree so I'll be making the changes today.

 

[Passersby]

i'm always late to the party and maybe still hated because of the last ram skill feat but are we sure he actually made clouds all over instead of just using a wide range spell that made it snow using mana as the medium?

cause i can't see any clouds in the scans posted

not like it makes much of a difference since this is already accepted

 

[Zabazab]

are we sure he actually made clouds all over instead of just using a wide range spell that made it snow using mana as the medium?

cause i can't see any clouds in the scans posted

Yes, weather-manipulation magic creates clouds rather than just making snow by unknown means.

The clouds are admittedly a bit harder to see in the dark sky from the scans in the calc, but they are there and are present in every other use of weather magic in the series.

and maybe still hated because of the last ram skill feat

You needn't worry about something so silly.

 

[Passersby]

Yes, weather-manipulation magic creates clouds rather than just making snow by unknown means.

The clouds are admittedly a bit harder to see in the dark sky from the scans in the calc, but they are there and are present in every other use of weather magic in the series.

yup, then it's fine then

You needn't worry about something so silly.

then nice to see you 2!

 

[Zabazab]

Upgrades have now been applied, thank you

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Phantom updated the calc, but has a calc member relooked at it? Doesn't look like that to me.

Was the High 6-A/5-C calculation accepted? I didn't see DMUA's commenting on it.