PhantomØ4
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All of that has been addressed with the updates.
All with much luv honeyboo
I accept your flaws.-
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Re:Zero Top/High Tiers Upgrade
- Thread starter Zabazab
- Start date
I accept your flaws.
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I'm just tagging them.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,105
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Gotcha, gotcha.
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The measurements of these clouds are fine for me. Puck's feat is alright but before I leave an evaluation on the blog.
The only issue I have right now is the timeframe for Reinhard's calc. The calculation assumes Reinhard split the entire storm in 31 frames going by the anime's timeframe. Be he visually does not blow away the entire storm in that moment. As such, I'm uncertain with using that time for clearing the entire storm.
The lowest timeframe I'd use is 5 seconds, which is standard for things that happen relatively quickly.
But if you can someway find the speed of the clouds splitting in the anime and use that, it should be better than just assuming a timeframe.
Note: Your mass is still written as 329,965,835,708,528,060.00000 kg in Reinhard's calc, you should change that to the new number.
Everything else appears fine, just the timeframe seems to be an issue.
The only issue I have right now is the timeframe for Reinhard's calc. The calculation assumes Reinhard split the entire storm in 31 frames going by the anime's timeframe. Be he visually does not blow away the entire storm in that moment. As such, I'm uncertain with using that time for clearing the entire storm.
The lowest timeframe I'd use is 5 seconds, which is standard for things that happen relatively quickly.
But if you can someway find the speed of the clouds splitting in the anime and use that, it should be better than just assuming a timeframe.
Note: Your mass is still written as 329,965,835,708,528,060.00000 kg in Reinhard's calc, you should change that to the new number.
Everything else appears fine, just the timeframe seems to be an issue.
Zabazab
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Using the speed in the anime would result in the feat taking over two minutes, so that's obviously unusable.
I'm going to provide the officially translated Light Novel scan because it helps illustrate the following point: the scan starts by saying "In the next instant", followed by the effects of the slash ("the sky split"), and it also says that "The moment after that cascading slash settled down, the... world recovered", the wording & statements in the novel suggest that the actual AP feat being calculated- splitting the sky- was fast enough to occur in the span of the swinging of Reinhard's sword, or at least in an instant/moment.
For that reason, I believe that roughly a second would be an appropriate timeframe, is that alright?
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Reinhard's combat speed is FTL so you can factor that in as well
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Reinhard having galaxy level AP by dispersing the cloudsI mean it is yeah, but he probably didn't move at FTL speeds here (that'd cause problems in terms of KE)
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It doesn't say the entire storm was dispersed in an instant nor did it say it occur in the span of him swinging the sword. The sentence just said what he did an instant after whatever was happening previously. That doesn't mean all of those moments happened in an instant.
Obviously 2 minutes is very wrong, but 5 seconds is my opinion. This is still very quick and would be in a moment.
I can't agree with one second based on the scan you've provided.
Zabazab
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At the close of the slash, the world was born anew. That reads to me as the actual feat of splitting the sky & parting the frozen world completing as the swing completed.
The frozen world is destroyed as the swing completes, and after the swing is completed the world is restored
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just these parts are what leads me to believe it happens in tandem with the swing of the sword.
the world is restored or "born anew" as the slash "settles down" or "[closes]", meaning the cloud splitting – "cleaves through the sky" and "the sky split, cracks running through the very air" – must have happened before the swing ends, i.e at the same time.
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Let's go through this.
So, we start off with the text being placed in a "instant," where Reinhard raises his blade, sending up a flash of light that splits the sky.
This is before we see that the world itself slides along with the arc of his blade. The order of events is: Reinhard raises his sword -> He sends a beam to the air that splits the sky -> he arcs his blade down and cuts the world.
After this, we see that his slash is stated to simultaneously end the world and recreate it. That word is important because it means that all of the damage must have occurred within the sword slash. It can't have happened after he already recreated the world at the end of his blade's arc.
Within this "next instant," Reinhard splits the sky as he raises his sword, slashes to split the world in half, and at the end of his slash he recreates it. Hence the slash being a simultaneous destruction and rebirth.
With that in mind, I would have to say it's pretty disingenuous to say it didn't happened within the span of a sword slash, let alone say it didn't happen within something like a literal "instant" as it mentions at the beginning of the text.
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"The next instant, Reinhard raised the Dragon Blade above his head, and there was a single flash of light-the sky split, cracks running through the very air; the ground crumbled; mana swirled in a vortex; and along the arc of his slash, the world... slid."
From what it sounds like Reinhard finished his swing. None of this 100% says all of this happened within the time he swung his sword. It just said they started happening at the same time he swung his sword. What seals the deal for me is the sentence afterward.
"The moment after that cascading slash settled down, the white, cold air covering the world... recovered."
Reinhard swing his sword, sky splits and whole bunch of stuff happens, once all of this stuff calms down the world starts to heal.
But we have no idea how long those effects lasted for, just that they started in an instant not how quickly they came to an end. I don't see how it happening in five seconds contradicts anything. Yes it happening in the time of his swing also doesn't contradict anything, but I see no reason why I should believe the higher end over a safer lower end.
I stand by 5 seconds.
From what it sounds like Reinhard finished his swing. None of this 100% says all of this happened within the time he swung his sword. It just said they started happening at the same time he swung his sword. What seals the deal for me is the sentence afterward.
"The moment after that cascading slash settled down, the white, cold air covering the world... recovered."
Reinhard swing his sword, sky splits and whole bunch of stuff happens, once all of this stuff calms down the world starts to heal.
But we have no idea how long those effects lasted for, just that they started in an instant not how quickly they came to an end. I don't see how it happening in five seconds contradicts anything. Yes it happening in the time of his swing also doesn't contradict anything, but I see no reason why I should believe the higher end over a safer lower end.
I stand by 5 seconds.
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I disagree, at this point I'm not getting convinced.
Best to call multiple calc group members over and have a vote. I'd rather not waste anymore of your time trying to convince me of something I don't believe in.
My apologies for dragging this out, I'm sure this isn't ideal for any of you. If the majority disagrees with me I'll concede my points.
Honestly, I'm more bothered by using the anime timeframe than anything else. Since we don't see the full storm get dispersed.
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?
The world didn't "start to heal" until the damage (includes the sky split and world split) had already been done. The slash simultaneously destroyed the healed the world, with the healing explicitly happening after the destruction. So "all of this stuff," which includes the sky split, would have happened before the beginning of the "healing." And thus it would have to be within the span of the sword slash.
A sword slash that happens within this "next instant" by a dude who is wildly above human speed. 5 seconds seems quite unjustified
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The sequence of events:
Reinhard puts the sword above his head and starts to slash the world>his slash destroys the world>the area which gets destroyed also instantly gets recreated>Reinhard's slash ends and everything is normal now, the birds are chirping and apparently its day now
Where even is the supposed time lag?
Reinhard puts the sword above his head and starts to slash the world>his slash destroys the world>the area which gets destroyed also instantly gets recreated>Reinhard's slash ends and everything is normal now, the birds are chirping and apparently its day now
Where even is the supposed time lag?
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Alright that makes sense
Considering this is from the narrators perspective the destruction and recreation happening simultaneously would make sense which would imply everything happening "instantaneously"
So now we wait for more calc members to notice this thread. Rip
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Yeah this has been my sentiment the entire time, and I'm sticking to it
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it’s infinite AP at speed of light buddy. FTL KE doesn’t exist.Reinhard having galaxy level AP by dispersing the clouds
following
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,105
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I am gonna murder you if you keep making me do goofy changes. I told you the anime timeframe was iffy.
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5 seconds is perfect, I've my evaluation on the blog.
(kinda glad the value was similar enough that the top tiers didn't need edited)
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Melakuera is comparable to Puck so he should be At least Country level, likely higher
Echidna should get a higher AP then Puck do to her "Al Shario" Spell
it took The Beast Of The End, Beatrice, and Toska and they barely managed to defeat the Silver Dragon Fargall
yet her casual feat of dropping down the stars completely shocked him to the point that he did not even wish to defy her
Characters affected:
Hector
Daphne
Rai (comparable to Daphne)
Echidna should get a higher AP then Puck do to her "Al Shario" Spell
it took The Beast Of The End, Beatrice, and Toska and they barely managed to defeat the Silver Dragon Fargall
yet her casual feat of dropping down the stars completely shocked him to the point that he did not even wish to defy her
Characters affected:
Hector
Daphne
Rai (comparable to Daphne)
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Zabazab
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Puck, upon using Astral Transformation, said "I didn't expect you to be this much weaker than me, Melakuera." and then one-shot one of his bodies. We can't even say the big Melakuers scales because Puck seemingly one-shot him too.
In this sidestory Puck and Beatrice are far weaker & only 2 years old. Plus, we know that Puck is not only stronger than Echidna, but also Daphne who is >> Echidna.
VortechsTG
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Ok, I very strongly disagree with scaling Roswaal to Puck’s true form in any way. Just because Roswaal was able to push Puck to use that form does not mean he pushed that form to its limit. In the very same scene Puck even indirectly compares Roswaal to Melekuera who he had previously bodied and taunted for being weak compared to him.
This is the very same opponent who Puck says was the last to push him this far in the quote used to propose this change.
There are countless statements noting that Roswaal and Echidna are equals in power.
Echidna is on the weaker end for the witches, being placed as significantly weaker than Daphne and Typhon. While in contrast Puck is placed in the top 5 in the entire series, making him even stronger than them.
Echidna and Melekuera are very clearly portrayed as far weaker than Puck. Roswaal who is compared to them should be as well. The only quote contradicting this is the one from volume 15 which is vague and flimsy as evidence. The only thing it definitively states is that at that moment Roswaal would lose if Puck entered his true form.
This is the very same opponent who Puck says was the last to push him this far in the quote used to propose this change.
There are countless statements noting that Roswaal and Echidna are equals in power.
Echidna is on the weaker end for the witches, being placed as significantly weaker than Daphne and Typhon. While in contrast Puck is placed in the top 5 in the entire series, making him even stronger than them.
Echidna and Melekuera are very clearly portrayed as far weaker than Puck. Roswaal who is compared to them should be as well. The only quote contradicting this is the one from volume 15 which is vague and flimsy as evidence. The only thing it definitively states is that at that moment Roswaal would lose if Puck entered his true form.
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I see, but that still does not explain the huge gap between a Country level and a City level, at least he should be stronger then base Puck who is Island level
there is no proof that Puck was far weaker then he's current self's, Astral Transformation is he's trump card and he can't really get it to be stronger
and he even compared himself to he's old self when he said "if you really want to kill me then stretch half of Satella's Thousand Shadows, toward me"
also some of this Q&A's are based on Hax instead of pure strength so it shouldn't be used
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Zabazab
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(Every strong magician is gonna be island level very soon)
The proof is that his sister Beatrice was also weaker, and the fact that modern Puck is outright confirmed to be >>> Echidna.
The thousand shadows quote doesn't compare him to his old self, it compares him to Satella.
This is all that was really needed to convince me tbh. It still leaves the Volume 15 Quote as a MASSIVE emigma though.
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Dont forget about Emilia btw
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how is she in any way weaker?
she was fighting fairly similar to her current self, she used Minya and El Minya the same as Arc 5
it's pretty much self telling that Puck have lost to Satella with half of her shadows, otherwise he wouldn't pick this random number as if he can tell how many shadows it would take to kill him
it's not that big of a gap, Puck is comparable to Roswaal and Echidna
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she never said that?
and her lack of magical technique does not affect Pucks lack of strength
it does not
Puck 400 years ago has fought Satella with half of her shadows and lost
and now he's saying that he would lose to her with half of her shadows, so he never got stronger in this 400 years
">" does not tell much
and most of this comparisons are based on who would win instead of who is stronger except the last one
also this statements are like 10 years old, the author seems to have changed he's mind now by making her comparable to Roswaal
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Zabazab
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- #118
This isn't true, I don't believe there's any proof that Puck fought Satella.
It's not "who would win" it's explicitly "who is stronger". The difference in strength between Satella and Sekhmet is shown to be comparable to the difference between Daphne and Echidna. A serious Puck is stronger than Daphne who is is unbelievably stronger than Echidna.
Echidna had always been described as comparable to Roswaal. Puck has always been described as far stronger than either of them. Neither scale to Starbeast Puck just because Echidna was stronger than 2-year-old Puck.
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So he was picking random numbers then
does Carmilla >>>>> Minerva looks like a strength comparison to you, when Typhon who is superior to them couldn't even tank the force from Minerva's punch
yeah I guess I was wrong, Puck only used he's physicals strength in the fight with Fargall and he was still practicing he's beast form so we can't use that for comparison
Puck: [It’s just that I’m still practicing it. So I can’t make it last for too long.]
so Puck > Roswaal = Echidna is about right
